Pentax's mirrorless strategy

selar · 07-08-2012, 06:30 PM

I have voted with my feet for Pentax's mirrorless "strategy?!" and got a NEX5N. If they had made the Q with an APS-C sensor I would have got that.

pinholecam · 07-08-2012, 07:20 PM

Originally posted by Laurentiu Cristofor

I think the bottleneck in these scenarios is the brain's processing capacity and reaction time, not the EVF's refresh rate.

Care to elaborate?

philbaum · 07-08-2012, 08:43 PM - **2 Likes**

Originally posted by selar

I have voted with my feet for Pentax's mirrorless "strategy?!" and got a NEX5N. If they had made the Q with an APS-C sensor I would have got that.

Pentax had a chance to do something marvelous in the MILC category but they dropped the ball, IMO. Neither Q or K01 are serious contenders to reach the full potential of MILC, i.e. a minimum aps sensor, good video controls and good still camera controls. Fuji had a chance with their Pro1 aps camera but apparently it has some issues after reading the Fuji forum on dpreview, e.g. slow AF.

I think selar has got it right, Sony's NEX5n comes closest to what i think the MILC category is capable of. Sure, Nikon and Canon will come out to play, but only when they sense that other companies are getting to big of a lead on them. Sony and Fuji are presently the category leaders. After the Q and K01 efforts, i'm not convinced that Pentax can be a contender in this category. Sony, this summer is expected to come up with a Nex F5 as a succesor to the 5n, Thats the camera i'm waiting for - that body and a few more e-lenses would help.

**Aristophanes** · 07-09-2012, 07:10 AM

K-01 is a solid concept missing an EVF option, odd styling (makes it look too big), and no swivel LCD. Fix that and it has it's niche but viable. I'd certainly consider one as my backup.

The Q's problem is too small a sensor and waaaaay overly ambitious pricing. Fix the sensor size issue and it easily competes. It is much, much smaller than the m43 offerings.

Correct those errors and Pentax is competitive. Add a Ricoh equivalent of the new Sony 1" sensor compact and the line is dialed in.

Last edited by Aristophanes; 07-09-2012 at 09:11 AM.

philbaum · 07-09-2012, 10:06 AM

Originally posted by Aristophanes

K-01 is a solid concept missing an EVF option, odd styling (makes it look too big), and no swivel LCD. Fix that and it has it's niche but viable. I'd certainly consider one as my backup.

The Q's problem is too small a sensor and waaaaay overly ambitious pricing. Fix the sensor size issue and it easily competes. It is much, much smaller than the m43 offerings.

Correct those errors and Pentax is competitive. Add a Ricoh equivalent of the new Sony 1" sensor compact and the line is dialed in.

I really tried to wrap my mind about getting a K01 for a backup/tripod camera. When i discovered they had no shutter cable port, and then discovered that they had only a single front IR port (instead of a front and back IR port like Kx, Kr, and K30), they appeared to have gone out of their way to make it difficult to use the camera. If the K01 had more of the features of a K30- i would have been sold.

If i were Pentax Manager for a day, I'd terminate the Q and start developing a new lens mount designed with the compact aps MILC cameras in mind. On Day 2, the Board would have fired me so all you loyal Pentaxians can relax

.

At this point in my photography life, I have way more K-mount lenses than the skill to properly use them. But for someone more knowledgeable than myself - i'd like to ask to ask the question: Should Pentax consider designing a new mount exclusively for a compact APS sensor MILC? If thats what they need to do to be competitive in MILC, then i think they should do it

Laurentiu Cristofor · 07-09-2012, 02:23 PM

Originally posted by pinholecam

Care to elaborate?

Frame rate - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

selar · 07-09-2012, 02:40 PM

Make K-01 in a camcorder format, with a flip out lcd and an evf, that will take care of registration distance.

RonHendriks1966 · 07-09-2012, 02:56 PM

Originally posted by philbaum

There a very odd situation that is developing. If Olympus is out of the picture (i say IF), then that leaves only Panasonic, Sony and Pentax to carry the MILC flag. (Certainly Nikon and Canon have no enthusiasm for marketing their own MILC since they would tend to undercut their own DLSRs if sensor size were the same in both types)

Out of those flag carriers, Pentax is arguably in the best financial shape, perhaps, since both Pana. and Sony lost money last year.

I think Pentax is in a position to grab market share in MILC cameras, but will they? To do that,
they need to issue a K01 successor within the next 12 months:
a. it needs an EVF i think.
b. It needs a tiltable LCD
c. not sure about WR
d. It needs video specs like the K30
e. It needs a hotshoe but not an in body flash
f. Some reduced weight is in order.
g. Its ability to be used on a tripod should not be compromised, like it needs a shutter cable port. And it would be cool
to have a tripod port on the left and another one of the bottom of the case, like the 645D

There is a market for an upgraded K-02 next to the cheaper K-01. That looks about right to me.

Well Ricoh is also loosing money as a total company and dropped on the Fortune 500 Global list to #461.

I don't know why no-one is thinking of Samsung? In 5 years time they are marketleader in this section with their NX-system.

DaveBlack · 07-10-2012, 05:09 AM

Originally posted by selar

I have voted with my feet for Pentax's mirrorless "strategy?!" and got a NEX5N. If they had made the Q with an APS-C sensor I would have got that.

I also voted and got an Olympus E-M5. It is smaller than my K-5, which makes it a very good size for my caving camera. It is a very fun camera to use and will make a nice second system for me. I will mostly be using it for my p&s camera replacement.

If the Q had a bigger sensor, weather-sealed and an built-in evf, plus a few more lenses I would have got it. The K-01 without an optional evf and special lenses that use the mirror space just don't make sense for my use.

Dave

wjjstu · 07-10-2012, 05:19 PM

Pentax's mirrorless strategy is to cede the market to all competitors before making a triumphant entrance or so it would seem.

I'm actually considering picking up one of those clearance GF3's out there with coke bottle 14mm lens as a cheap take anywhere cam. It's suboptimal but for $300 it's the best of a bad bunch and having a camera is better than having no camera.

**Fontan** · 07-19-2012, 08:54 PM

Here is Canon's strategy . . .
????????????????????????????????????? : ??????????

What if it is . . . . No it can't be. Looks too small.

Laurentiu Cristofor · 07-19-2012, 10:03 PM

Originally posted by Fontan

Here is Canon's strategy . . .
????????????????????????????????????? : ??????????

What if it is . . . . No it can't be. Looks too small.

Interesting image. Canon's announcement will be very interesting.

Laurentiu Cristofor · 07-21-2012, 09:08 AM

More pics showing rear controls:

New Canon EOS M with EF-M Mount

**monochrome** · 07-21-2012, 10:12 AM

Originally posted by Laurentiu Cristofor

More pics showing rear controls:

New Canon EOS M with EF-M Mount

I don't see an EVF/OVF, wheels, dials, controls or anything like a K-01. Must be a truly superior design.

Laurentiu Cristofor · 07-21-2012, 01:33 PM

Originally posted by monochrome

I don't see an EVF/OVF, wheels, dials, controls or anything like a K-01. Must be a truly superior design.

That can always come later, in another body model. What matters now is that they are introducing a new mount designed for mirrorless cameras. Ricoh/Pentax, as well as Nikon, should take notes on how Canon does business.

The smart part is that they don't threaten their SLR market now, but with this new mirrorless mount, they can always expand the system later. The not so smart part is that they give time to Olympus, Sony, Samsung, and Fuji to strengthen their lead in this area - I don't think Canon will attract a lot of new people to this system unless their lens roadmap is really exciting. Let's see the official announcement.

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07-08-2012, 06:30 PM	#46
selar Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Sydney, Australia Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 2,042	I have voted with my feet for Pentax's mirrorless "strategy?!" and got a NEX5N. If they had made the Q with an APS-C sensor I would have got that.

07-08-2012, 07:20 PM	#47
pinholecam Pentaxian Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: North Photos: Gallery Posts: 4,706	Originally posted by Laurentiu Cristofor I think the bottleneck in these scenarios is the brain's processing capacity and reaction time, not the EVF's refresh rate. Care to elaborate?

07-08-2012, 08:43 PM - 2 Likes	#48
philbaum Veteran Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Port Townsend, Washington State, USA Posts: 3,659	Originally posted by selar I have voted with my feet for Pentax's mirrorless "strategy?!" and got a NEX5N. If they had made the Q with an APS-C sensor I would have got that. Pentax had a chance to do something marvelous in the MILC category but they dropped the ball, IMO. Neither Q or K01 are serious contenders to reach the full potential of MILC, i.e. a minimum aps sensor, good video controls and good still camera controls. Fuji had a chance with their Pro1 aps camera but apparently it has some issues after reading the Fuji forum on dpreview, e.g. slow AF. I think selar has got it right, Sony's NEX5n comes closest to what i think the MILC category is capable of. Sure, Nikon and Canon will come out to play, but only when they sense that other companies are getting to big of a lead on them. Sony and Fuji are presently the category leaders. After the Q and K01 efforts, i'm not convinced that Pentax can be a contender in this category. Sony, this summer is expected to come up with a Nex F5 as a succesor to the 5n, Thats the camera i'm waiting for - that body and a few more e-lenses would help.

07-09-2012, 07:10 AM	#49
Aristophanes Site Supporter Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Rankin Inlet, Nunavut Photos: Albums Posts: 3,948	K-01 is a solid concept missing an EVF option, odd styling (makes it look too big), and no swivel LCD. Fix that and it has it's niche but viable. I'd certainly consider one as my backup. The Q's problem is too small a sensor and waaaaay overly ambitious pricing. Fix the sensor size issue and it easily competes. It is much, much smaller than the m43 offerings. Correct those errors and Pentax is competitive. Add a Ricoh equivalent of the new Sony 1" sensor compact and the line is dialed in. Last edited by Aristophanes; 07-09-2012 at 09:11 AM.

07-09-2012, 10:06 AM	#50
philbaum Veteran Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Port Townsend, Washington State, USA Posts: 3,659	Originally posted by Aristophanes K-01 is a solid concept missing an EVF option, odd styling (makes it look too big), and no swivel LCD. Fix that and it has it's niche but viable. I'd certainly consider one as my backup. The Q's problem is too small a sensor and waaaaay overly ambitious pricing. Fix the sensor size issue and it easily competes. It is much, much smaller than the m43 offerings. Correct those errors and Pentax is competitive. Add a Ricoh equivalent of the new Sony 1" sensor compact and the line is dialed in. I really tried to wrap my mind about getting a K01 for a backup/tripod camera. When i discovered they had no shutter cable port, and then discovered that they had only a single front IR port (instead of a front and back IR port like Kx, Kr, and K30), they appeared to have gone out of their way to make it difficult to use the camera. If the K01 had more of the features of a K30- i would have been sold. If i were Pentax Manager for a day, I'd terminate the Q and start developing a new lens mount designed with the compact aps MILC cameras in mind. On Day 2, the Board would have fired me so all you loyal Pentaxians can relax . At this point in my photography life, I have way more K-mount lenses than the skill to properly use them. But for someone more knowledgeable than myself - i'd like to ask to ask the question: Should Pentax consider designing a new mount exclusively for a compact APS sensor MILC? If thats what they need to do to be competitive in MILC, then i think they should do it

07-09-2012, 02:23 PM	#51
Laurentiu Cristofor Banned Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: WA Photos: Albums Posts: 3,055	Originally posted by pinholecam Care to elaborate? Frame rate - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

07-09-2012, 02:40 PM	#52
selar Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Sydney, Australia Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 2,042	Make K-01 in a camcorder format, with a flip out lcd and an evf, that will take care of registration distance.

07-09-2012, 02:56 PM	#53
RonHendriks1966 Banned Join Date: Jan 2009 Photos: Gallery Posts: 9,675	Originally posted by philbaum There a very odd situation that is developing. If Olympus is out of the picture (i say IF), then that leaves only Panasonic, Sony and Pentax to carry the MILC flag. (Certainly Nikon and Canon have no enthusiasm for marketing their own MILC since they would tend to undercut their own DLSRs if sensor size were the same in both types) Out of those flag carriers, Pentax is arguably in the best financial shape, perhaps, since both Pana. and Sony lost money last year. I think Pentax is in a position to grab market share in MILC cameras, but will they? To do that, they need to issue a K01 successor within the next 12 months: a. it needs an EVF i think. b. It needs a tiltable LCD c. not sure about WR d. It needs video specs like the K30 e. It needs a hotshoe but not an in body flash f. Some reduced weight is in order. g. Its ability to be used on a tripod should not be compromised, like it needs a shutter cable port. And it would be cool to have a tripod port on the left and another one of the bottom of the case, like the 645D There is a market for an upgraded K-02 next to the cheaper K-01. That looks about right to me. Well Ricoh is also loosing money as a total company and dropped on the Fortune 500 Global list to #461. I don't know why no-one is thinking of Samsung? In 5 years time they are marketleader in this section with their NX-system.

07-10-2012, 05:09 AM	#54
DaveBlack Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2011 Location: Louisville, Kentucky Posts: 441	Originally posted by selar I have voted with my feet for Pentax's mirrorless "strategy?!" and got a NEX5N. If they had made the Q with an APS-C sensor I would have got that. I also voted and got an Olympus E-M5. It is smaller than my K-5, which makes it a very good size for my caving camera. It is a very fun camera to use and will make a nice second system for me. I will mostly be using it for my p&s camera replacement. If the Q had a bigger sensor, weather-sealed and an built-in evf, plus a few more lenses I would have got it. The K-01 without an optional evf and special lenses that use the mirror space just don't make sense for my use. Dave

07-10-2012, 05:19 PM	#55
wjjstu Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2009 Posts: 181	Pentax's mirrorless strategy is to cede the market to all competitors before making a triumphant entrance or so it would seem. I'm actually considering picking up one of those clearance GF3's out there with coke bottle 14mm lens as a cheap take anywhere cam. It's suboptimal but for $300 it's the best of a bad bunch and having a camera is better than having no camera.

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07-19-2012, 08:54 PM	#56
Fontan Site Supporter Join Date: Jan 2011 Location: 5th floor Posts: 1,610	Here is Canon's strategy . . . ????????????????????????????????????? : ?????????? What if it is . . . . No it can't be. Looks too small.

07-19-2012, 10:03 PM	#57
Laurentiu Cristofor Banned Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: WA Photos: Albums Posts: 3,055	Originally posted by Fontan Here is Canon's strategy . . . ????????????????????????????????????? : ?????????? What if it is . . . . No it can't be. Looks too small. Interesting image. Canon's announcement will be very interesting.

07-21-2012, 09:08 AM	#58
Laurentiu Cristofor Banned Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: WA Photos: Albums Posts: 3,055	More pics showing rear controls: New Canon EOS M with EF-M Mount

07-21-2012, 10:12 AM	#59
monochrome Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Working From Home Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 26,276	Originally posted by Laurentiu Cristofor More pics showing rear controls: New Canon EOS M with EF-M Mount I don't see an EVF/OVF, wheels, dials, controls or anything like a K-01. Must be a truly superior design.

07-21-2012, 01:33 PM	#60
Laurentiu Cristofor Banned Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: WA Photos: Albums Posts: 3,055	Originally posted by monochrome I don't see an EVF/OVF, wheels, dials, controls or anything like a K-01. Must be a truly superior design. That can always come later, in another body model. What matters now is that they are introducing a new mount designed for mirrorless cameras. Ricoh/Pentax, as well as Nikon, should take notes on how Canon does business. The smart part is that they don't threaten their SLR market now, but with this new mirrorless mount, they can always expand the system later. The not so smart part is that they give time to Olympus, Sony, Samsung, and Fuji to strengthen their lead in this area - I don't think Canon will attract a lot of new people to this system unless their lens roadmap is really exciting. Let's see the official announcement.