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08-07-2013, 02:13 PM - 1 Like   #1
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New Mirrorless Ideas Anyone?

With everyone up in arms about the coming of a FF dslr from Pentax, I'm more interested in seeing a new mirrorless camera with APS-C and a really short flange focal distance.

I don't really want to cheat on Pentax, but I've been looking at the sony NEX 7 and an off-brand focal reducer...

So, what I'd really appreciate from a Pentax camera is this:

-mirrorless
-shortest flange focal distance possible (so telecompressors and lens adapters can be added)
-67, K, and Q mount compatible through adapters
-24 megapixel APS-C sensor
-an optional Pentax speed booster, focal reducer, or telecompressor (whatever you want to call it)
-EVF
-audio input
-HD video output while shooting stills or video
-Tilting glare resistant LCD screen
-a vintage looking body
-two SD slots



What do you think?
Have anything to add?

I'd like FF on a DSLR, but think that people would more readily switch to Pentax if they knew they could get a more flexible, enthusiast/entry level camera that would upgrade their lenses a stop with an adapter. Does anyone think that with the huge flange focal distance of the 67 mount, that you might be able to add 2 stops to a lens with an adapter and APS-C sensor?

08-07-2013, 02:39 PM   #2
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I would not be surprised if Ricoh delivers something along those lines, with an updated new mount, it could usher in a new age of the Ricoh (oh I mean the Pentax).
08-07-2013, 02:54 PM   #3
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Yep, let us all cross our thumbs that Ricoh will have something like that up their sleeves soon
08-07-2013, 03:00 PM   #4
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Original Poster
QuoteOriginally posted by joel_tauzin Quote
With everyone up in arms about the coming of a FF dslr from Pentax, I'm more interested in seeing a new mirrorless camera with APS-C and a really short flange focal distance.

I don't really want to cheat on Pentax, but I've been looking at the sony NEX 7 and an off-brand focal reducer...

So, what I'd really appreciate from a Pentax camera is this:

-mirrorless
-shortest flange focal distance possible (so telecompressors and lens adapters can be added)
-67, K, and Q mount compatible through adapters
-24 megapixel APS-C sensor
-an optional Pentax speed booster, focal reducer, or telecompressor (whatever you want to call it)
-EVF
-audio input
-HD video output while shooting stills or video
-Tilting glare resistant LCD screen
-a vintage looking body
-two SD slots



What do you think?
Have anything to add?

I'd like FF on a DSLR, but think that people would more readily switch to Pentax if they knew they could get a more flexible, enthusiast/entry level camera that would upgrade their lenses a stop with an adapter. Does anyone think that with the huge flange focal distance of the 67 mount, that you might be able to add 2 stops to a lens with an adapter and APS-C sensor?
How about an in body, easily interchangeable, plain glass, antialiasing, and IR filter?

08-07-2013, 03:41 PM - 1 Like   #5
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I would add weather sealed. ;)

QuoteOriginally posted by joel_tauzin Quote
... With everyone up in arms about the coming of a FF dslr from Pentax, I'm more interested in seeing a new mirrorless camera with APS-C and a really short flange focal distance... So, what I'd really appreciate from a Pentax camera is this:

-mirrorless...

What do you think? Have anything to add?

I'd like FF on a DSLR, but think that people would more readily switch to Pentax if they knew they could get a more flexible, enthusiast/entry level camera that would upgrade their lenses a stop with an adapter. Does anyone think that with the huge flange focal distance of the 67 mount, that you might be able to add 2 stops to a lens with an adapter and APS-C sensor?
I would add weather sealed.
08-07-2013, 03:48 PM   #6
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Ricoh can think up and have the GXR M-mount module, I'm sure some sort of camera that can take a few lens types will be in their consideration.

To me,
LX styled MILC with EVF
FF
Shorter flange distance that mounts M mount lenses but comes with adapter that allows AF on K-mount like the AFA 1.7x teleconverter.

I wouldn't mind if the sensor was foveon, but I guess thats very polarizing to potential buyers.
08-07-2013, 04:26 PM - 1 Like   #7
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QuoteOriginally posted by Traditional Quote
I would add weather sealed.
That one's important! Weather sealed is a must if you're talking about an ultimate mirrorless checklist.
08-07-2013, 04:33 PM   #8
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QuoteOriginally posted by pinholecam Quote
Ricoh can think up and have the GXR M-mount module, I'm sure some sort of camera that can take a few lens types will be in their consideration.

To me,
LX styled MILC with EVF
FF
Shorter flange distance that mounts M mount lenses but comes with adapter that allows AF on K-mount like the AFA 1.7x teleconverter.

I wouldn't mind if the sensor was foveon, but I guess thats very polarizing to potential buyers.
AF is a given. Are you saying that you'd prefer an autofocus adapter, so older, non-autofocus lenses could be used? I had pictured a fixed-lens adapter that still has the connections for the camera to control the lens. I like your idea better, though it would be more expensive, because I have a slew of old manual lenses.

08-07-2013, 05:06 PM   #9
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Original Poster
QuoteOriginally posted by pinholecam Quote
Ricoh can think up and have the GXR M-mount module, I'm sure some sort of camera that can take a few lens types will be in their consideration.

To me,
LX styled MILC with EVF
FF
Shorter flange distance that mounts M mount lenses but comes with adapter that allows AF on K-mount like the AFA 1.7x teleconverter.

I wouldn't mind if the sensor was foveon, but I guess thats very polarizing to potential buyers.
I've actually been wanting to try that AF 1.7 adapter.
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08-07-2013, 06:19 PM - 1 Like   #10
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QuoteOriginally posted by joel_tauzin Quote
AF is a given. Are you saying that you'd prefer an autofocus adapter, so older, non-autofocus lenses could be used? I had pictured a fixed-lens adapter that still has the connections for the camera to control the lens. I like your idea better, though it would be more expensive, because I have a slew of old manual lenses.
QuoteOriginally posted by joel_tauzin Quote
I've actually been wanting to try that AF 1.7 adapter.
Nice stuff you have there.

Just sort of a adapter that can couple the screw drive and contacts from the base mount.
In other words, K users will have not difference in usage on such a camera.

At this point though, I'd even be happy if Pentax/Ricoh came up with FF K or M-mount GXR
08-08-2013, 03:52 PM - 1 Like   #11
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Interchangeable sensor camera. That is why Ricoh Imaging still have some issues but not for a long.
08-10-2013, 01:34 AM   #12
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It doesn't have to be short flange for a camera to be small and pretty. Only the lens mount could protrude. So it could be a beutifull and tiny FF for use with the 40, 70 limiteds. But I have the strong belief that the industry is composed from idiots that can rarely have some good idea. Can't explain the ugliness and insufficiency of this world somehow differently.
08-10-2013, 01:55 AM   #13
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QuoteOriginally posted by climit Quote
It doesn't have to be short flange for a camera to be small and pretty. Only the lens mount could protrude. So it could be a beutifull and tiny FF for use with the 40, 70 limiteds. But I have the strong belief that the industry is composed from idiots that can rarely have some good idea. Can't explain the ugliness and insufficiency of this world somehow differently.
You're right. It doesn't have to be short flange, but I think that consumers would get more of their money's worth. You could buy slower lenses if you had a camera that could receive a focal reducer. Your whole set could increase a stop in speed. That's the only reason why I'd stick with APS-C for enthusiast cameras. A 24mp ASP-C sensor is enough definition for most anyone. I just want my FF lenses to have the option to show their full potential. On a cropped sensor, you get the sweet spot on your lens, and with a focal reducer you get the full focal width. I think it's best of both worlds.
08-10-2013, 02:31 AM   #14
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QuoteOriginally posted by joel_tauzin Quote
You're right. It doesn't have to be short flange, but I think that consumers would get more of their money's worth. You could buy slower lenses if you had a camera that could receive a focal reducer. Your whole set could increase a stop in speed. That's the only reason why I'd stick with APS-C for enthusiast cameras. A 24mp ASP-C sensor is enough definition for most anyone. I just want my FF lenses to have the option to show their full potential. On a cropped sensor, you get the sweet spot on your lens, and with a focal reducer you get the full focal width. I think it's best of both worlds.
The smaller the sensor, the less capable. FF offers greater analysis and at least one stop more. A focal reducer is a useable instalation on certain circumstancies but it is bulky and imports elements between the lens and sensor that downgrade the quality of the image.
08-10-2013, 04:29 AM   #15
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QuoteOriginally posted by climit Quote
The smaller the sensor, the less capable. FF offers greater analysis and at least one stop more. A focal reducer is a useable instalation on certain circumstancies but it is bulky and imports elements between the lens and sensor that downgrade the quality of the image.
The smaller the sensor, the more noise. I agree.

Explain what you mean by "FF offers greater analysis" please.

FF does not offer a stop more of light. An f2 lens is an f2 no matter how big or small the sensor is.

I also agree that a focal reducer might be bulky, but if a camera didn't have a mirror, there is a ton of room to play with. I think you could integrate a focal reducer with a mirrorless camera and still have a good looking camera. Of course, the reducer would have to be designed specifically for that camera body or line of bodies in order for it to work out aesthetically, ergonomically, and functionally.

And the degradation of quality I agree with also, but feel that a comfortable compromise can be made between speed/versatility and image quality. I've seen the metabones reviews, and there doesn't seem to be much noticeable degradation of IQ. Anyway, expect that going FF might reduce the quality of the image your lens produces. Not every lens has edge to edge sharpness. Already you can find threads about how sensors will start to outperform the capabilities of todays lenses.

Since I believe you've missed my point in all this:
Because I don't believe we'll get an EVF nearly as good as an ordinary OVF anytime soon, I don't see professionals solely turning to mirrorless. Today, and for the next few years, mirrorless cameras will be enthusiast grade cameras. I think the best idea is to make them as accessible and affordable as possible. The cost alone for a FF sensor would kill that dream. And, especially where Pentax is concerned, less lenses will be available for the new FF format.

I'm only going on and on about a keeping the camera ASP-C sized, because I believe it's an important way to increase the versatility of your lens set. ASP-C effectively (I know this isn't what really happens) zooms your lens 1.6x, but, unlike a teleconverter, it keeps the aperture the same. I think this feature should not be lost but complimented with an excellently crafted telecompressor that will, not only, resurrect the wasted image circle of FF lenses but, also, add a freaking stop of speed to those lenses.

I whole heartedly believe that a photographer should give more care to and spend more money for lenses than cameras. I think lenses are much more important to the overall look of a picture when comparing sensors of a similar size and definition. So, lets just take every one of your lenses and add up the total monetary value of them. Then find the same lenses (if they exist) that are one stop faster and figure out what the price would be to upgrade your whole kit.

I'm sure you get now why I insist that such a focal reducer be made and that APS-C format should not be abandoned just because of all the almost hysterical hype for FF. And I have faith that Pentax can make a speed booster of such quality and precision that it would blow the minds of both enthusiasts and professionals. It would open the door for people who don't have 10 grand to spend on a kit. One could buy an entry level MLC will all the features of a professional DSLR and buy lenses that are far more reasonably priced than what the professionals use. You can buy a 35mm f2.8 and have it become an f2, a 50mm 1.8 would transform into a 1.2, an 85/2 turns into 85/1.4, and so on... You could have a setup with all the capabilities of a pro's but for a fraction of the price.
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