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09-27-2013, 09:26 AM   #1
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Theoretical maximum sensor size for q lens system?

Question: Does anyone know the theoretical maximum sensor size that would be covered with the current Q system lenses/mount?

I ask because I've recently been considering getting a Q7 with a few lenses and wonder if there will be further increases in the sensor size down the road or if the 1/1.7" sensor was the end-game plan for the Q system.

09-27-2013, 09:57 AM   #2
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HI, I don't believe this is gonna happen : look by comparison at Nikon 1 and you will see that 1" sensor doesn't fit in the Q mount - or they would have to change contacts ; even 1/2" would imply the stabilization mechanism "squeeze".
To check on the lens side, one could fix the 8,5mm on Pentax K-01 at proper register distance... making shutter sacrifice..... anyone volunteering ?

Last edited by Zygonyx; 09-27-2013 at 10:04 AM.
09-27-2013, 11:25 AM   #3
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You could probably go slightly higher, but the sensor is still going to be in point and shoot territory. Nowhere near 1".

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09-27-2013, 12:00 PM   #4
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I don't expect Q mount to ever support larger sensors.

Someone around here showed that Q lenses mounted on a Q7 tend to have traditional focal length ranges. For example, the 06 zoom is very close to 70-200/2.8 on Q7. The same lens works out to an nontraditional range on Q/Q10. The 02 works out very near 24-70. The primes work out to approximately 28, 40, 50, 85. This suggests that Q7 sensor size was the design target even before its release.

This doesn't "prove" anything, but it strikes me as strong indicia that Q was always meant to have the Q7 sensor size.

Speaking of conspiracy theories, I also believe that Sony restricts the sensors available to Pentax. If not by fiat then by way of unreasonable component pricing. Under the umbrella of this theory, Sony may not have initially provided 1/1.7" sensors to Pentax due to factors such as Sony's own RX100 and/or agreements with Nikon RE: Nikon 1 system. Pentax may have always had the Q7 sensor on the roadmap for release after the blackout period.

For example, the Nikon 1 V1 appears to have been released on September 17, 2011. Almost exactly two years later the Q7 is released. A conspiracy theorist such as myself considers the possibility that Nikon bought two years of exclusivity from Sony, protecting a range of sensor sizes for mirrorless interchangeable cameras.

This theory is relevant, if true, to show that Pentax doesn't just change sensor sizes on a whim, but rather accordingly to a roadmap of component availability and price. I don't expect them to change the Q size again because I believe their Q sensor roadmap is complete.

09-27-2013, 01:56 PM   #5
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There was a rumour early on that the Q system was designed to cover up to 1/1.6" sensors. With the release of the Q7, that rumour gained credence for me. But I don't think anyone is even making 1/1.6" sensors any longer, and even if they were, the difference between 1.6 and 1.7 borders on theoretical.

The next size up, 2/3" is clearly too large for the Q. I expect 1/1.7" is the end game.

Last edited by audiobomber; 09-27-2013 at 02:03 PM.
10-02-2013, 12:01 PM   #6
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So we all agree it seems.
I remember 1/1,6" sensors being clustered in Fuji's old F6500fd and F31fd...
06-09-2014, 02:03 AM   #7
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I disagree. Square 1" sensor can fit.
06-09-2014, 05:49 AM   #8
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QuoteOriginally posted by alliumnsk Quote
I disagree. Square 1" sensor can fit.
There's an interesting point. A larger sensor might make sense if the camera then crops the image to different aspect ratios. That would be cool, as it would allow you to shoot various aspect ratios with minimum compromise. (I vaguely recall that at least one M4/3 camera, a Panasonic, already did this trick.)

However... The image circle projected by Q lenses isn't getting any bigger, nor should we want it to. Compactness is what the Q is all about, so it wouldn't make sense to compromise that.

06-09-2014, 08:24 AM   #9
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we need to be careful here that this does not evolve into a series of threads similar to the FF vs APS-C sensor discussions. the Q is the Q at present with the format defined by the Q7. Lets not lead to a rash of speculation about making the format bigger and bigger.
06-09-2014, 11:30 AM   #10
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QuoteOriginally posted by Tony Belding Quote
There's an interesting point. A larger sensor might make sense if the camera then crops the image to different aspect ratios. That would be cool, as it would allow you to shoot various aspect ratios with minimum compromise. (I vaguely recall that at least one M4/3 camera, a Panasonic, already did this trick.)

However... The image circle projected by Q lenses isn't getting any bigger, nor should we want it to. Compactness is what the Q is all about, so it wouldn't make sense to compromise that.
The Q is for fun. If you need a compact camera, RX100 is much better bet. The 5-15 is quite large for the sensor size (It could be 5-15/1.8 as well), and E and NX systems have collapsible zoom which is much shorter.
If pentax decides to release 1" ILC camera, they might reuse Q mount for that so already existing adaptors work.

In the 1st model of Q, outer block with sensor is about 14x14 mm, which is more than enough to fit 1"
06-09-2014, 12:46 PM - 1 Like   #11
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QuoteOriginally posted by alliumnsk Quote
In the 1st model of Q, outer block with sensor is about 14x14 mm, which is more than enough to fit 1"
No existing lenses would work on it without heavy cropping or heavy vignetting. The Q is what it is. I don't think the sensor size will change again.
06-09-2014, 12:53 PM   #12
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QuoteOriginally posted by alliumnsk Quote
The Q is for fun. If you need a compact camera, RX100 is much better bet. The 5-15 is quite large for the sensor size (It could be 5-15/1.8 as well), and E and NX systems have collapsible zoom which is much shorter.
If pentax decides to release 1" ILC camera, they might reuse Q mount for that so already existing adaptors work.

In the 1st model of Q, outer block with sensor is about 14x14 mm, which is more than enough to fit 1"
I beg to differ. Q is quite capable and IQ is equal to other small systems, especially using the 01, 06 and 08 lenses. Is it really fair to use the kit zoom of an interchangeable lens camera as a comparison to a collapsible point-and-shoot lens?
06-09-2014, 01:14 PM   #13
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QuoteOriginally posted by monochrome Quote
I beg to differ. Q is quite capable and IQ is equal to other small systems, especially using the 01, 06 and 08 lenses. Is it really fair to use the kit zoom of an interchangeable lens camera as a comparison to a collapsible point-and-shoot lens?
which other small systems?
I am not comparing 02 zoom to point-and-shoot lens. I am comparing 02 zoom to other kit zooms. E.g. if you downscale old m43 Panasonic 14-42 zoom (64 mm length) three times (Q sensor is about 3 times smaller) you'll get something in like much like 01 prime.
06-09-2014, 02:57 PM - 1 Like   #14
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QuoteOriginally posted by alliumnsk Quote
which other small systems?
I am not comparing 02 zoom to point-and-shoot lens. I am comparing 02 zoom to other kit zooms. E.g. if you downscale old m43 Panasonic 14-42 zoom (64 mm length) three times (Q sensor is about 3 times smaller) you'll get something in like much like 01 prime.
Don't quite get your point. The Q is the smallest sensored interchangeable lens system in the world. If I wanted a bigger sensor, I'd choose a different system.
06-09-2014, 05:11 PM   #15
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The true max sensor size is the Q/Q10. The larger sensor size of the Q7 crops some Q lenses. A larger square sensor that allows different aspect ratios withnout loss would be cool.

Don't think there is a a Sony conspiracy selling Pentax Q sensors. Afaik, the Nikon 1 sensor was made by Aptina. The Q system is GREAT as is. A large enough sensor to make a difference, would make tele lenses as big as everyone elses. That would kill the Q. The Q does not have to be your only camera.
thanks
ready for the Q7 upgrade
barondla
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