Some Thoughts on the K-01 and Mirrorless From Pentax

**THoog** · 12-06-2013, 07:16 PM

Originally posted by 6BQ5

I think they sort of did that. Or, at least the smaller mechanisms and battery... it's in the Q7.

I know you were kidding, but just for the sake of thoroughness (I can't help it; I'm an engineer

), I dug into the specs. The Q7 battery is 20% the size of the K-01 battery, and provides 27% of the power. That would give about 150 shots. Although the Q SR mechanism has a much smaller sensor to shift, it doesn't appear to be thinner - about 1cm, same as K-01. The Q body is actually thicker than an NEX! (not counting the grip or E-mount "extension tube" on the NEX).

Originally posted by 6BQ5

Seriously though, I believe Pentax look at the K-01 and the Q line as platforms for continuous learning in design, manufacturing, technology development, etc that will be fed into future products. In that sense the K-01 was a roaring success if the lessons learned and gained fed into the Q7.

If nothing else, the K-01 introduced focus peaking to Pentaxians, and at fire-sale prices, introduced a lot of new owners to Pentax.

rdj92807 · 12-18-2013, 11:01 PM

I love the K-01. It's going to be a classic. Great image quality, fun to use and look at. I also love the K-5, K-3 but I find myself shooting with the K-01 more than half the time. Very nice control layout. Cute colors.

**Billy Joe** · 12-18-2013, 11:37 PM

I am enjoying my K-01... It and a long zoom point and shoot awakened my photo bug and got me shooting again after a long funk!!! So glad the K-01 was so cheap and fit my manual focus lens addiction... The K-5 sensor and focus peaking is a blast!

Macario · 12-19-2013, 12:44 AM

I also only got the K-01 after the heavy discount. But that had to with money I had to spend, and nothing with that I thought it was too expensive (just couldn't get it before).
I think the main problem with the K-01 was that it was too different for people and was poorly marketed.
Look at the Nikon 1 series, not the best series there is, but the marketing was just spot on, so it caught on.
The marketing for the K-01, well it was just poorly. Marc Newson might be a great designer (I had never heard of him). But to put that in marketing perspective. people will always: go what does a designer know about camera's. We know camera's and we do not want any change. Let the designer desing other stuff, not cameras.
Then there is the size of that thing, which is not small. Put it side by side with a NEX model and it is a giant (for some reason it always was compared to the NEX). But slap a lens on the nex (let's say a zeiss 24) and well, the NEX becomes huge. And even when pointing that out (the nex actually is bigger with a zeiss 24 on it than a K-01 with the 40XS), the empasis was alwasy on the body size. Not of the body with lens.

It is a shame that it wasn't a big succes, I do love the crazy camera. Use it 90% of the time over my K-7.
It has it's bad sides, but also many good sides, which are alwasy outshaddowed by the bad.

If they would now come with a K-02, I wouldn't buy it. I have the K-01 and I am fine with that, until it stops working. But if they do make a K-02. The only thing which would make live lot easier for me is a better and quicker AF (which now is possible ofcourse). Then I would probably use the k-7 just for sports with long lenses.

cahudson42 · 12-19-2013, 08:45 AM

Yep - we can only dream of a K-02 - one perhaps with a digital viewfinder like the Sony Alpha 7R (at $2298 body only? Without 'image stabilization' (shake reduction) - am I reading the 7R specs correctly? If so - unbelievable. )

My Daughter, now 30, was 'brought up' using my Spotmatic F and then ES II at 15, - with M42 lens (50, 85, 105, 135, 500). High School Camera Club, trip to Europe, developing and printing own B&W stuff, etc..

I had given her a G12 at her wedding two years ago - something for 'point and shoot'. Not to replace it but to complement it, I just got back from giving her a K-01 'kit' setup for manual M42 only, with F3.5 35, F1.4 50, F4 50 Macro , 135, 200, 300 and one Vivitar Zoom ( for 'video only'..:>). I think she was thrilled to be 'back in control' - and we spent hours going over each lens and its use. Which fortunately, she started from a good base of experience.

I'm guessing Husband will now usually shoot with the G12, while she will be breaking in the K-01 kit.

The K-01 is unbeatable for use with M42 Takumars IMO.

Hopefully, Ricoh won't feel 'burned' by the K-01 flop - treat it as a 'learning experience' - and deliver us the 'Next Generation'.

Perhaps with encouragement from Forum Members and Admins - they might do so.
Chris

Biro · 12-19-2013, 02:11 PM

Originally posted by cahudson42

Yep - we can only dream of a K-02 - one perhaps with a digital viewfinder like the Sony Alpha 7R (at $2298 body only? Without 'image stabilization' (shake reduction) - am I reading the 7R specs correctly? If so - unbelievable. )... Hopefully, Ricoh won't feel 'burned' by the K-01 flop - treat it as a 'learning experience' - and deliver us the 'Next Generation'.

Perhaps with encouragement from Forum Members and Admins - they might do so.
Chris

I'd love to see a Pentax K-02 - with an electronic viewfinder. And I don't think the price has to be out of sight, either. Look at the Sony NEX-6. That viewfinder would work fine for me.

**squareeyes** · 12-19-2013, 05:56 PM

I have neither seen nor heard any Ricoh or Pentax comments that indicate the K-01 was a flop. I have seen a bunch of dissatisfied users who really wanted a ground breaking camera that conformed to their expectation of what a Pentax camera should be.

What Pentax delivered was an attractive, conservative(!) mirror less concept that "reached the end of its product cycle" (according to a Ricoh executive) and also spawned sufficient following to warrant a new shell release after the clearance pricing had begun.

If there was a mistake, I believe it was releasing a concept camera as a production model. Was Pentax surprised by the reactions (Hostile and Positive): Yes!

My hope is that the relative success of an odd Pentax camera can encourage them to take more risks in ergonomic design and incorporate some of the ideas washing around in the various user groups.

For me, a novel mount based on the full frame K-mount and an articulated or tilting LCD would be sufficient.

mde1970 · 12-20-2013, 09:38 AM

I'm becoming increasingly interested in the mirror less market. Love my k5 but sure could do with something a bit smaller. However I won't have the cash to buy a new system with lenses. So mirrorless k mount would be ideal for me but it would also need evf. The alternative would be to sell all my gear and invest in a mirrorless system. I imagine quite a few people are in a similar position to myself. If we get mirrorless in k-mount it makes it much more feasible for people to have two body's.

Steve.Ledger · 12-20-2013, 06:10 PM

Since buying the MX-1 I realize what's missing from my K-01 - the tilting LCD screen!!

A new generation K-01 (K-01t?) would surely gain more favour, especially with the videographers who love the K-01 for video?

**THoog** · 12-20-2013, 07:26 PM

Looks great, but it's using space occupied by the sensor. The LCD will either have to protrude from the back (making the body look even thicker), or the entire body is going to have to be thicker, or SR has to be given up so that the Sensor / Shake Reduction chassis can be replaced by a thin circuit board.

Or does the 't' stand for TARDIS, because it's bigger on the inside than the outside?

(It's a "Dr. Who" reference)

Steve.Ledger · 12-20-2013, 07:54 PM

IMHO the tilting screen won't add much more than the thickness of the LCD panel and glass does already in it's fixed state. The couple of millimetres needed for a plastic frame won't add any appreciable thickness to the body for operation/grip purposes and will only add a fraction (if any) to the overall size compared to what a lens would add. Let'd face it, the K-01 isn't a pocketable compact and never intended to be. A few millimetres isn't going to matter for something which could make the model immeasurably more popular.
The K-01 is 79mm thick as is, much less than the K-3 (100mm) K-50/500 (97mm) K-30 (97mm) and even the X5 (86mm) which has the tilting screen.

Could be easily done I'm sure.
Probably Mr Newson didn't like the idea.

The 't' stands for 'Tilt'

Pioneer · 12-20-2013, 08:07 PM

I would prefer to see them stay with a K-Mount mirrorless. Face it, the K-01 was being slammed for lots of things, size was only one of them. However, I do think that a new lens mount may provide a way out. Unfortunately, to date neither Pentax nor Ricoh have seemed particularly speedy in developing and manufacturing new lenses. If they intend to introduce something new they will need to get much faster on that front to be successful

To be completely honest, I think that the Q System is a better platform than the K-01 was. It is small, mirrorless, and already has several lenses out there. To follow everyone on the APS-C front is just that, following. To be out in front you have to think out of the box, not follow. A few more quality primes, another fast zoom, further improvements to the focus speed, and they would be there with the Q. I know that the Q7 sensor is still small but I think that there are still quality gains to be made on that front as well. The current sensor is doing a pretty good job and improved software can help even more. I know that a lot of American men are still obsessed with packing a "big" camera and a "big" lens, but the younger set seems to be less worried about this and is more interested in smaller cameras.

Steve.Ledger · 12-20-2013, 08:33 PM

Nah, the whole point of the K-01 dslm was to keep the K mount and thus buyers would have access to all the K mount lenses that the dSLR users have.
I don't think Pentax are followers in any way shape of form, they certainly do think outside the box - the K-01 is proof of this along with the Q mount and all the coloured bodies for several dlsr and the dslm models. The APS-C sensor size is an established dSLR sensor across all brands which follows on from the APS Classic 24mm film.

**THoog** · 12-20-2013, 08:43 PM - **1 Like**

Originally posted by Steve.Ledger

IMHO the tilting screen won't add much more than the thickness of the LCD panel and glass does already in it's fixed state. The couple of millimetres needed for a plastic frame won't add any appreciable thickness to the body for operation/grip purposes and will only add a fraction (if any) to the overall size compared to what a lens would add. Let'd face it, the K-01 isn't a pocketable compact and never intended to be. A few millimetres isn't going to matter for something which could make the model immeasurably more popular.
The K-01 is 79mm thick as is, much less than the K-3 (100mm) K-50/500 (97mm) K-30 (97mm) and even the X5 (86mm) which has the tilting screen.

Could be easily done I'm sure.
Probably Mr Newson didn't like the idea.

I'm sorry, but the math just doesn't support that. The K-01 is 79mm TALL, and 59mm thick. It's 45.46mm (the flange focal distance) from the front edge of the mount to the sensor, leaving 13.54mm for the SR chassis and rear LCD. The LCD glass and circuit board are about 3mm thick, and the SR chassis about 10mm (as I said earlier, even the Q's SR chassis is about 10mm thick). Every tiltable LCD I've been able to measure was about 8mm thick - not counting the rear wall of the body, but even ignoring that, the LCD pocket is sticking 5mm into the body, biting into half of the SR chassis.

I've measured the K100D, K-x, K-r, K-30, and K-5 (front of mount to rear glass - not the spec dimension, which includes the grip and/or eyecup). They were all 63-65mm thick. The K-01 squeezed the mount-to-rear-glass dimension by compressing the main circuit board and moving it from the usual location behind the SR chassis to the side (displacing the battery forward). Now, a body with K-x dimensions, but a K-01's main board, would have space behind the SR chassis perfect for a tiltable LCD.

As for the X-5, that's comparing apples to kumquats. The X-5 doesn't have to preserve the K-mount flange focal distance, freeing up 20mm, maybe more. Plenty of room for a tilt-LCD.

Steve.Ledger · 12-20-2013, 11:57 PM

You seem to be forgetting that the LCD screen assembly is already part of the camera which is already using space internally in the camera body. The tilting screen just requires it to be on a hinge.

Anyhow, I didn't post this to incite an argument, was just a fun mashup I hoped people would enjoy and one that actually would work as well...

12-19-2013, 08:45 AM	#20
cahudson42 Inactive Account Join Date: Oct 2011 Posts: 147	K-01 Next Gen.... Yep - we can only dream of a K-02 - one perhaps with a digital viewfinder like the Sony Alpha 7R (at $2298 body only? Without 'image stabilization' (shake reduction) - am I reading the 7R specs correctly? If so - unbelievable. ) My Daughter, now 30, was 'brought up' using my Spotmatic F and then ES II at 15, - with M42 lens (50, 85, 105, 135, 500). High School Camera Club, trip to Europe, developing and printing own B&W stuff, etc.. I had given her a G12 at her wedding two years ago - something for 'point and shoot'. Not to replace it but to complement it, I just got back from giving her a K-01 'kit' setup for manual M42 only, with F3.5 35, F1.4 50, F4 50 Macro , 135, 200, 300 and one Vivitar Zoom ( for 'video only'..:>). I think she was thrilled to be 'back in control' - and we spent hours going over each lens and its use. Which fortunately, she started from a good base of experience. I'm guessing Husband will now usually shoot with the G12, while she will be breaking in the K-01 kit. The K-01 is unbeatable for use with M42 Takumars IMO. Hopefully, Ricoh won't feel 'burned' by the K-01 flop - treat it as a 'learning experience' - and deliver us the 'Next Generation'. Perhaps with encouragement from Forum Members and Admins - they might do so. Chris

12-20-2013, 06:10 PM	#24
Steve.Ledger Veteran Member Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: Far North Qld Posts: 3,301	Since buying the MX-1 I realize what's missing from my K-01 - the tilting LCD screen!! A new generation K-01 (K-01t?) would surely gain more favour, especially with the videographers who love the K-01 for video? Last edited by Steve.Ledger; 08-10-2014 at 10:12 PM.

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12-06-2013, 07:16 PM	#16
THoog Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Aug 2012 Location: North Carolina Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 3,685	Originally posted by 6BQ5 I think they sort of did that. Or, at least the smaller mechanisms and battery... it's in the Q7. I know you were kidding, but just for the sake of thoroughness (I can't help it; I'm an engineer ), I dug into the specs. The Q7 battery is 20% the size of the K-01 battery, and provides 27% of the power. That would give about 150 shots. Although the Q SR mechanism has a much smaller sensor to shift, it doesn't appear to be thinner - about 1cm, same as K-01. The Q body is actually thicker than an NEX! (not counting the grip or E-mount "extension tube" on the NEX). Originally posted by 6BQ5 Seriously though, I believe Pentax look at the K-01 and the Q line as platforms for continuous learning in design, manufacturing, technology development, etc that will be fed into future products. In that sense the K-01 was a roaring success if the lessons learned and gained fed into the Q7. If nothing else, the K-01 introduced focus peaking to Pentaxians, and at fire-sale prices, introduced a lot of new owners to Pentax.

12-18-2013, 11:01 PM	#17
rdj92807 Forum Member Join Date: Jan 2012 Posts: 97	I love the K-01. It's going to be a classic. Great image quality, fun to use and look at. I also love the K-5, K-3 but I find myself shooting with the K-01 more than half the time. Very nice control layout. Cute colors.

12-18-2013, 11:37 PM	#18
Billy Joe Site Supporter Join Date: Jun 2013 Posts: 374	I am enjoying my K-01... It and a long zoom point and shoot awakened my photo bug and got me shooting again after a long funk!!! So glad the K-01 was so cheap and fit my manual focus lens addiction... The K-5 sensor and focus peaking is a blast!

12-19-2013, 12:44 AM	#19
Macario Pentaxian Join Date: Feb 2011 Location: Hoek van Holland Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 1,393	I also only got the K-01 after the heavy discount. But that had to with money I had to spend, and nothing with that I thought it was too expensive (just couldn't get it before). I think the main problem with the K-01 was that it was too different for people and was poorly marketed. Look at the Nikon 1 series, not the best series there is, but the marketing was just spot on, so it caught on. The marketing for the K-01, well it was just poorly. Marc Newson might be a great designer (I had never heard of him). But to put that in marketing perspective. people will always: go what does a designer know about camera's. We know camera's and we do not want any change. Let the designer desing other stuff, not cameras. Then there is the size of that thing, which is not small. Put it side by side with a NEX model and it is a giant (for some reason it always was compared to the NEX). But slap a lens on the nex (let's say a zeiss 24) and well, the NEX becomes huge. And even when pointing that out (the nex actually is bigger with a zeiss 24 on it than a K-01 with the 40XS), the empasis was alwasy on the body size. Not of the body with lens. It is a shame that it wasn't a big succes, I do love the crazy camera. Use it 90% of the time over my K-7. It has it's bad sides, but also many good sides, which are alwasy outshaddowed by the bad. If they would now come with a K-02, I wouldn't buy it. I have the K-01 and I am fine with that, until it stops working. But if they do make a K-02. The only thing which would make live lot easier for me is a better and quicker AF (which now is possible ofcourse). Then I would probably use the k-7 just for sports with long lenses.

12-19-2013, 02:11 PM	#21
Biro Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2009 Posts: 1,200 Original Poster	Originally posted by cahudson42 Yep - we can only dream of a K-02 - one perhaps with a digital viewfinder like the Sony Alpha 7R (at $2298 body only? Without 'image stabilization' (shake reduction) - am I reading the 7R specs correctly? If so - unbelievable. )... Hopefully, Ricoh won't feel 'burned' by the K-01 flop - treat it as a 'learning experience' - and deliver us the 'Next Generation'. Perhaps with encouragement from Forum Members and Admins - they might do so. Chris I'd love to see a Pentax K-02 - with an electronic viewfinder. And I don't think the price has to be out of sight, either. Look at the Sony NEX-6. That viewfinder would work fine for me.

12-19-2013, 05:56 PM	#22
squareeyes Site Supporter Join Date: Aug 2010 Photos: Gallery Posts: 189	I have neither seen nor heard any Ricoh or Pentax comments that indicate the K-01 was a flop. I have seen a bunch of dissatisfied users who really wanted a ground breaking camera that conformed to their expectation of what a Pentax camera should be. What Pentax delivered was an attractive, conservative(!) mirror less concept that "reached the end of its product cycle" (according to a Ricoh executive) and also spawned sufficient following to warrant a new shell release after the clearance pricing had begun. If there was a mistake, I believe it was releasing a concept camera as a production model. Was Pentax surprised by the reactions (Hostile and Positive): Yes! My hope is that the relative success of an odd Pentax camera can encourage them to take more risks in ergonomic design and incorporate some of the ideas washing around in the various user groups. For me, a novel mount based on the full frame K-mount and an articulated or tilting LCD would be sufficient.

12-20-2013, 09:38 AM	#23
mde1970 Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2011 Location: Reading Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 313	I'm becoming increasingly interested in the mirror less market. Love my k5 but sure could do with something a bit smaller. However I won't have the cash to buy a new system with lenses. So mirrorless k mount would be ideal for me but it would also need evf. The alternative would be to sell all my gear and invest in a mirrorless system. I imagine quite a few people are in a similar position to myself. If we get mirrorless in k-mount it makes it much more feasible for people to have two body's.

12-20-2013, 07:26 PM	#25
THoog Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Aug 2012 Location: North Carolina Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 3,685	Looks great, but it's using space occupied by the sensor. The LCD will either have to protrude from the back (making the body look even thicker), or the entire body is going to have to be thicker, or SR has to be given up so that the Sensor / Shake Reduction chassis can be replaced by a thin circuit board. Or does the 't' stand for TARDIS, because it's bigger on the inside than the outside? (It's a "Dr. Who" reference)

12-20-2013, 07:54 PM	#26
Steve.Ledger Veteran Member Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: Far North Qld Posts: 3,301	IMHO the tilting screen won't add much more than the thickness of the LCD panel and glass does already in it's fixed state. The couple of millimetres needed for a plastic frame won't add any appreciable thickness to the body for operation/grip purposes and will only add a fraction (if any) to the overall size compared to what a lens would add. Let'd face it, the K-01 isn't a pocketable compact and never intended to be. A few millimetres isn't going to matter for something which could make the model immeasurably more popular. The K-01 is 79mm thick as is, much less than the K-3 (100mm) K-50/500 (97mm) K-30 (97mm) and even the X5 (86mm) which has the tilting screen. Could be easily done I'm sure. Probably Mr Newson didn't like the idea. The 't' stands for 'Tilt'

12-20-2013, 08:07 PM	#27
Pioneer Pentaxian Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: Wandering the Streets Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 1,411	I would prefer to see them stay with a K-Mount mirrorless. Face it, the K-01 was being slammed for lots of things, size was only one of them. However, I do think that a new lens mount may provide a way out. Unfortunately, to date neither Pentax nor Ricoh have seemed particularly speedy in developing and manufacturing new lenses. If they intend to introduce something new they will need to get much faster on that front to be successful To be completely honest, I think that the Q System is a better platform than the K-01 was. It is small, mirrorless, and already has several lenses out there. To follow everyone on the APS-C front is just that, following. To be out in front you have to think out of the box, not follow. A few more quality primes, another fast zoom, further improvements to the focus speed, and they would be there with the Q. I know that the Q7 sensor is still small but I think that there are still quality gains to be made on that front as well. The current sensor is doing a pretty good job and improved software can help even more. I know that a lot of American men are still obsessed with packing a "big" camera and a "big" lens, but the younger set seems to be less worried about this and is more interested in smaller cameras.

12-20-2013, 08:33 PM	#28
Steve.Ledger Veteran Member Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: Far North Qld Posts: 3,301	Nah, the whole point of the K-01 dslm was to keep the K mount and thus buyers would have access to all the K mount lenses that the dSLR users have. I don't think Pentax are followers in any way shape of form, they certainly do think outside the box - the K-01 is proof of this along with the Q mount and all the coloured bodies for several dlsr and the dslm models. The APS-C sensor size is an established dSLR sensor across all brands which follows on from the APS Classic 24mm film.

12-20-2013, 08:43 PM - 1 Like	#29
THoog Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Aug 2012 Location: North Carolina Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 3,685	Originally posted by Steve.Ledger IMHO the tilting screen won't add much more than the thickness of the LCD panel and glass does already in it's fixed state. The couple of millimetres needed for a plastic frame won't add any appreciable thickness to the body for operation/grip purposes and will only add a fraction (if any) to the overall size compared to what a lens would add. Let'd face it, the K-01 isn't a pocketable compact and never intended to be. A few millimetres isn't going to matter for something which could make the model immeasurably more popular. The K-01 is 79mm thick as is, much less than the K-3 (100mm) K-50/500 (97mm) K-30 (97mm) and even the X5 (86mm) which has the tilting screen. Could be easily done I'm sure. Probably Mr Newson didn't like the idea. I'm sorry, but the math just doesn't support that. The K-01 is 79mm TALL, and 59mm thick. It's 45.46mm (the flange focal distance) from the front edge of the mount to the sensor, leaving 13.54mm for the SR chassis and rear LCD. The LCD glass and circuit board are about 3mm thick, and the SR chassis about 10mm (as I said earlier, even the Q's SR chassis is about 10mm thick). Every tiltable LCD I've been able to measure was about 8mm thick - not counting the rear wall of the body, but even ignoring that, the LCD pocket is sticking 5mm into the body, biting into half of the SR chassis. I've measured the K100D, K-x, K-r, K-30, and K-5 (front of mount to rear glass - not the spec dimension, which includes the grip and/or eyecup). They were all 63-65mm thick. The K-01 squeezed the mount-to-rear-glass dimension by compressing the main circuit board and moving it from the usual location behind the SR chassis to the side (displacing the battery forward). Now, a body with K-x dimensions, but a K-01's main board, would have space behind the SR chassis perfect for a tiltable LCD. As for the X-5, that's comparing apples to kumquats. The X-5 doesn't have to preserve the K-mount flange focal distance, freeing up 20mm, maybe more. Plenty of room for a tilt-LCD.

12-20-2013, 11:57 PM	#30
Steve.Ledger Veteran Member Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: Far North Qld Posts: 3,301	You seem to be forgetting that the LCD screen assembly is already part of the camera which is already using space internally in the camera body. The tilting screen just requires it to be on a hinge. Anyhow, I didn't post this to incite an argument, was just a fun mashup I hoped people would enjoy and one that actually would work as well...