Some Thoughts on the K-01 and Mirrorless From Pentax

dansamy · 02-01-2014, 03:30 AM

I know this thread is primarily about a k-01 successor, but I kind of have a question about the Q series. Is the image circle large enough to cover a 2/3" sensor? That's only a wee bit larger than the 1/1.7" in the Q7, right? I think that might be the perfect mini, mirror less ILC if they did that.

**Tony Belding** · 02-01-2014, 07:32 AM

Originally posted by ChopperCharles

I would say, add an optional EVF. Honestly, after using the K-01, I think it would be less of a camera if it had the EVF. It wouldn't be as good as an OVF, and the experience would be diminished.

After using my Olympus OM-D for a while, I prefer the EVF over an OVF. It lets me see a scene closer to how my camera sees it. EVFs are still getting better, too. I can easily imagine them taking over.

Quote:

Just another almost-SLR, instead of a camera that makes you use it differently -- which is what really brings out the fun I think.

Pentax could really use a mirrorless almost-SLR in their lineup. That's where the action is these days! As for "a camera that makes you use it differently" and "brings out the fun", that sounds like a role the Q7 was made for. The K-01 is neither fish nor fowl. It's the platypus of cameras. Even though I've had mine for a while, I still struggle to figure out exactly what its purpose should be.

**Tony Belding** · 02-01-2014, 07:52 AM

Originally posted by dansamy

I kind of have a question about the Q series. Is the image circle large enough to cover a 2/3" sensor? That's only a wee bit larger than the 1/1.7" in the Q7, right?

But the 1/1.7 is already a step up from the sensor in the Q and Q10. They may have already used up whatever leeway they had in image circle size. And if 2/3 is only "a wee bit larger", then would it really matter? I mean, it's sort of like how some people get all frothy over APS-C versus Micro Fourth Thirds, even though there isn't that much difference.

I think the Q7 in its current form is already one of the best things Pentax has going. It fills a role, and no other camera company has anything quite like it.

I do have to wonder what would happen if they made a larger and more DSLR-like camera with an EVF, but with this sensor size and the Q-mount? I know a lot of people would rag on it... They'd say, "It's not tiny anymore, but you still have a small sensor, so what's up with that?" But the Q lenses would still be small. You could still put together a small kit, and sensor technology will only continue to improve, so... In the long run, it might be pretty viable system.

Right now the Q-mount is the only purpose-designed mount Pentax has got for mirrorless cameras. If they're going to play in this area, they'll either do it with the Q-mount or have to introduce yet another mount and lens system.

dansamy · 02-01-2014, 08:03 AM

Originally posted by Tony Belding

But the 1/1.7 is already a step up from the sensor in the Q and Q10. They may have already used up whatever leeway they had in image circle size. And if 2/3 is only "a wee bit larger", then would it really matter? I mean, it's sort of like how some people get all frothy over APS-C versus Micro Fourth Thirds, even though there isn't that much difference.

I think the Q7 in its current form is already one of the best things Pentax has going. It fills a role, and no other camera company has anything quite like it.

I do have to wonder what would happen if they made a larger and more DSLR-like camera with an EVF, but with this sensor size and the Q-mount? I know a lot of people would rag on it... They'd say, "It's not tiny anymore, but you still have a small sensor, so what's up with that?" But the Q lenses would still be small. You could still put together a small kit, and sensor technology will only continue to improve, so... In the long run, it might be pretty viable system.

Right now the Q-mount is the only purpose-designed mount Pentax has got for mirrorless cameras. If they're going to play in this area, they'll either do it with the Q-mount or have to introduce yet another mount and lens system.

Yup. After I asked, I went & read some more. I think the 1/1.7" sensor is probably the largest they could go with the existing Q lenses image circle.

maleek · 02-01-2014, 04:39 PM

The Q-system is not to be underestimated, despite the sensor size. But I wonder if we wont see a brainchild of Q-thinking and the K-01 down the road.

dansamy · 02-01-2014, 04:43 PM

Originally posted by maleek

The Q-system is not to be underestimated, despite the sensor size. But I wonder if we wont see a brainchild of Q-thinking and the K-01 down the road.

I think that would be amazing & quite possibly a game changer in the mirrorless category.

Pioneer · 02-01-2014, 09:57 PM

I am continually amazed with what can be done with the Q and Q7. I remember using an old Nikon Coolpix just two or three years ago and being frustrated beyond belief when I tried to enlarge and print an amazing sunrise photo with a large, silhouetted prop plane that I had been fortunate to catch. Unfortunately the best I could do then was 4x6, now about 5x7

Now, with the Q (or Q7) I could have shot that same picture and printed to 13x19 with no problem. I know that not everything can be bumped up that far but simple images like that turn out great. I know that everyone is enthused with the idea of a K-01 type mirrorless with a much larger sensor but I would rather have the Q which easily rides everywhere in a jacket or vest pocket.

pentaxian_tmb · 02-10-2014, 10:29 PM

What I want: Smush a k-01 into the body of a ME Super with a EVF or.....expand the sensor size of the q into a larger size of the original Q body.

6BQ5 · 02-10-2014, 10:57 PM

I wonder how much bigger the sensor in the Q can get. The spot size coming out of the lens has to be big enough and the sensor has to be small enough so that the sensor can do it's anti-shake dance and still stay within the circle. You can make the circle bigger (and dimmer) by pushing it further back. I don't know how this would affect IQ. Maybe f/5.6 to f/8 on the lens suddenly becomes usable and all of a sudden f/1.9 gives extreme subject isolation with great bokeh!

dansamy · 02-10-2014, 10:58 PM

I think it's at its limit now. Some of the lenses vignette on the Q7's larger sensor.

**Tony Belding** · 02-10-2014, 11:04 PM

Yeah, we really don't need to make the Q's sensor any bigger. Small sensors are only going to continue to improve. The Q is just slightly ahead of its time.

What I wonder about is when we're going to see an EVF on a Pentax -- on either K or Q? I do like me some EVF since I've had a chance to try them out.

dansamy · 02-11-2014, 08:13 AM

I wonder what the Q7's successor will bring to the table, in terms of improved image quality, low light performance, etc.

Clavius · 02-11-2014, 08:16 AM

Originally posted by Tony Belding

What I wonder about is when we're going to see an EVF on a Pentax -- on either K or Q? I do like me some EVF since I've had a chance to try them out.

Yeah, with Pentaxes backwards compatibility with all the fine manual lenses around, you'd expect them to go all the way and get that focus peaking and other tools right there in the viewfinder.

Pioneer · 03-10-2014, 03:54 PM

An electronic viewfinder sure seems like it would be a nice addition to the K-01 successor but I wonder if it doesn't increase the size a little too much. I would rather see a rear display that automatically increases in brightness based on the sunlight falling on it.

Steve.Ledger · 03-10-2014, 04:43 PM

Originally posted by Pioneer

An electronic viewfinder sure seems like it would be a nice addition to the K-01 successor but I wonder if it doesn't increase the size a little too much.

Wouldn't have to increase the size at all if they used the idea that Lumix came up with for the GX7.

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02-01-2014, 03:30 AM	#61
dansamy Site Supporter Join Date: Nov 2013 Location: Alabama Posts: 2,450	I know this thread is primarily about a k-01 successor, but I kind of have a question about the Q series. Is the image circle large enough to cover a 2/3" sensor? That's only a wee bit larger than the 1/1.7" in the Q7, right? I think that might be the perfect mini, mirror less ILC if they did that.

02-01-2014, 07:32 AM	#62
Tony Belding Site Supporter Join Date: Mar 2013 Location: Hamilton, Texas Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 779	Originally posted by ChopperCharles I would say, add an optional EVF. Honestly, after using the K-01, I think it would be less of a camera if it had the EVF. It wouldn't be as good as an OVF, and the experience would be diminished. After using my Olympus OM-D for a while, I prefer the EVF over an OVF. It lets me see a scene closer to how my camera sees it. EVFs are still getting better, too. I can easily imagine them taking over. Quote: Just another almost-SLR, instead of a camera that makes you use it differently -- which is what really brings out the fun I think. Pentax could really use a mirrorless almost-SLR in their lineup. That's where the action is these days! As for "a camera that makes you use it differently" and "brings out the fun", that sounds like a role the Q7 was made for. The K-01 is neither fish nor fowl. It's the platypus of cameras. Even though I've had mine for a while, I still struggle to figure out exactly what its purpose should be.

02-01-2014, 07:52 AM	#63
Tony Belding Site Supporter Join Date: Mar 2013 Location: Hamilton, Texas Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 779	Originally posted by dansamy I kind of have a question about the Q series. Is the image circle large enough to cover a 2/3" sensor? That's only a wee bit larger than the 1/1.7" in the Q7, right? But the 1/1.7 is already a step up from the sensor in the Q and Q10. They may have already used up whatever leeway they had in image circle size. And if 2/3 is only "a wee bit larger", then would it really matter? I mean, it's sort of like how some people get all frothy over APS-C versus Micro Fourth Thirds, even though there isn't that much difference. I think the Q7 in its current form is already one of the best things Pentax has going. It fills a role, and no other camera company has anything quite like it. I do have to wonder what would happen if they made a larger and more DSLR-like camera with an EVF, but with this sensor size and the Q-mount? I know a lot of people would rag on it... They'd say, "It's not tiny anymore, but you still have a small sensor, so what's up with that?" But the Q lenses would still be small. You could still put together a small kit, and sensor technology will only continue to improve, so... In the long run, it might be pretty viable system. Right now the Q-mount is the only purpose-designed mount Pentax has got for mirrorless cameras. If they're going to play in this area, they'll either do it with the Q-mount or have to introduce yet another mount and lens system.

02-01-2014, 08:03 AM	#64
dansamy Site Supporter Join Date: Nov 2013 Location: Alabama Posts: 2,450	Originally posted by Tony Belding But the 1/1.7 is already a step up from the sensor in the Q and Q10. They may have already used up whatever leeway they had in image circle size. And if 2/3 is only "a wee bit larger", then would it really matter? I mean, it's sort of like how some people get all frothy over APS-C versus Micro Fourth Thirds, even though there isn't that much difference. I think the Q7 in its current form is already one of the best things Pentax has going. It fills a role, and no other camera company has anything quite like it. I do have to wonder what would happen if they made a larger and more DSLR-like camera with an EVF, but with this sensor size and the Q-mount? I know a lot of people would rag on it... They'd say, "It's not tiny anymore, but you still have a small sensor, so what's up with that?" But the Q lenses would still be small. You could still put together a small kit, and sensor technology will only continue to improve, so... In the long run, it might be pretty viable system. Right now the Q-mount is the only purpose-designed mount Pentax has got for mirrorless cameras. If they're going to play in this area, they'll either do it with the Q-mount or have to introduce yet another mount and lens system. Yup. After I asked, I went & read some more. I think the 1/1.7" sensor is probably the largest they could go with the existing Q lenses image circle.

02-01-2014, 04:39 PM	#65
maleek Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Karlstad, Sweden Photos: Gallery Posts: 222	The Q-system is not to be underestimated, despite the sensor size. But I wonder if we wont see a brainchild of Q-thinking and the K-01 down the road.

02-01-2014, 04:43 PM	#66
dansamy Site Supporter Join Date: Nov 2013 Location: Alabama Posts: 2,450	Originally posted by maleek The Q-system is not to be underestimated, despite the sensor size. But I wonder if we wont see a brainchild of Q-thinking and the K-01 down the road. I think that would be amazing & quite possibly a game changer in the mirrorless category.

02-01-2014, 09:57 PM	#67
Pioneer Pentaxian Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: Wandering the Streets Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 1,411	I am continually amazed with what can be done with the Q and Q7. I remember using an old Nikon Coolpix just two or three years ago and being frustrated beyond belief when I tried to enlarge and print an amazing sunrise photo with a large, silhouetted prop plane that I had been fortunate to catch. Unfortunately the best I could do then was 4x6, now about 5x7 Now, with the Q (or Q7) I could have shot that same picture and printed to 13x19 with no problem. I know that not everything can be bumped up that far but simple images like that turn out great. I know that everyone is enthused with the idea of a K-01 type mirrorless with a much larger sensor but I would rather have the Q which easily rides everywhere in a jacket or vest pocket.

02-10-2014, 10:29 PM	#68
pentaxian_tmb Pentaxian Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: Madison, Wisconsin Posts: 436	What I want: Smush a k-01 into the body of a ME Super with a EVF or.....expand the sensor size of the q into a larger size of the original Q body.

02-10-2014, 10:57 PM	#69
6BQ5 Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2013 Location: Nevada, USA Photos: Albums Posts: 3,348	I wonder how much bigger the sensor in the Q can get. The spot size coming out of the lens has to be big enough and the sensor has to be small enough so that the sensor can do it's anti-shake dance and still stay within the circle. You can make the circle bigger (and dimmer) by pushing it further back. I don't know how this would affect IQ. Maybe f/5.6 to f/8 on the lens suddenly becomes usable and all of a sudden f/1.9 gives extreme subject isolation with great bokeh!

02-10-2014, 10:58 PM	#70
dansamy Site Supporter Join Date: Nov 2013 Location: Alabama Posts: 2,450	I think it's at its limit now. Some of the lenses vignette on the Q7's larger sensor.

02-10-2014, 11:04 PM	#71
Tony Belding Site Supporter Join Date: Mar 2013 Location: Hamilton, Texas Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 779	Yeah, we really don't need to make the Q's sensor any bigger. Small sensors are only going to continue to improve. The Q is just slightly ahead of its time. What I wonder about is when we're going to see an EVF on a Pentax -- on either K or Q? I do like me some EVF since I've had a chance to try them out.

02-11-2014, 08:13 AM	#72
dansamy Site Supporter Join Date: Nov 2013 Location: Alabama Posts: 2,450	I wonder what the Q7's successor will bring to the table, in terms of improved image quality, low light performance, etc.

02-11-2014, 08:16 AM	#73
Clavius Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2011 Location: De Klundert Photos: Gallery Posts: 4,150	Originally posted by Tony Belding What I wonder about is when we're going to see an EVF on a Pentax -- on either K or Q? I do like me some EVF since I've had a chance to try them out. Yeah, with Pentaxes backwards compatibility with all the fine manual lenses around, you'd expect them to go all the way and get that focus peaking and other tools right there in the viewfinder.

03-10-2014, 03:54 PM	#74
Pioneer Pentaxian Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: Wandering the Streets Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 1,411	An electronic viewfinder sure seems like it would be a nice addition to the K-01 successor but I wonder if it doesn't increase the size a little too much. I would rather see a rear display that automatically increases in brightness based on the sunlight falling on it.

03-10-2014, 04:43 PM	#75
Steve.Ledger Veteran Member Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: Far North Qld Posts: 3,301	Originally posted by Pioneer An electronic viewfinder sure seems like it would be a nice addition to the K-01 successor but I wonder if it doesn't increase the size a little too much. Wouldn't have to increase the size at all if they used the idea that Lumix came up with for the GX7.