Some Thoughts on the K-01 and Mirrorless From Pentax

Steve.Ledger · 04-22-2014, 05:25 PM

Yeppers...

You Tube

You Tube

PiDicus Rex · 04-23-2014, 07:32 AM

Pistol Grip,.. yah, got something similar, works great with my baby Ixus 105, not really comfortable on my K-01.

Jon: I actually don't like the Marc Newson elements of the design, but I love what's inside the camera.
That line about doing establishing shots is priceless, I'll have to steal it

As for the story, I leave that responsibility to the Director and Writer, and make sure I get the camera and lights right to convey the performances of the actors.

**monochrome** · 04-23-2014, 07:53 AM

Originally posted by PiDicus Rex

Jon: I actually don't like the Marc Newson elements of the design, but I love what's inside the camera.

Yeah, the K-01 design is truly binary. I actually was immediately moved to irrationality by the preview images and pre-ordered the K-01.

I love the black.

But there's certainly no gray area - it is 'either . . . . or . . . . '

jon404 · 04-23-2014, 11:16 AM

Well, I LIKE the K-01 design. At 70, I've learned that simple and uncluttered goes a long way, and that it is actually much harder to design than something with innumerable controls that aren't used very often. And, as a 'designer' camera, the K-01 follows in the tradition of my first camera, a Kodak Brownie Hawkeye, designed by Arthur Crapsey... around 1950, when industrial product design was so important. If only the K-01 had an OVF... and fast focusing for sports... and... and... but it IS a neat camera, and with a Hoodman loupe gaffer-taped on the back, quite useful.

Steve.Ledger · 04-23-2014, 01:43 PM

Originally posted by PiDicus Rex

Pistol Grip,.. not really comfortable on my K-01.

I find it super comfy. Pistol grip in the left hand, right hand on the camera.
Tripod quick release plate on the bottom of the pistol grip allows me to mount it on the tripod with almost zero flex.

My first reaction to the Newson design was to recoil. But I have to agree with Jon now.

PiDicus Rex · 05-29-2014, 10:37 AM

Originally posted by Steve.Ledger

Pistol grip in the left hand, right hand on the camera.

Ah, that's why - I focus left handed, or I have the left hand under the lens - your grip style would work best with AF, I'm an MF

Michail · 06-13-2014, 03:43 PM

Originally posted by JPT

I think Ricoh could make a success of a "K-02" with following formula.

1. Add an EVF. Don't add a tilting screen to this model.

2. Use an APS-C sensor with some kind of on-sensor PDAF. Almost every other manufacturer has some form of this technology, so I see no reason why Ricoh can't.

3. Adopt a more classic SLR layout, with a more centralised mount. I don't care if it looks retro or not, but when you attach a lens with little to grip (e,d, DA40mm) it is more ergonomic to have space on the body for your left hand to hold. The huge grip on DSLRs is overkill for small lenses and the lack of anything on the body for the left hand to grip is sub-optimal. I love the handling of my MZ-3 film camera with a small lens on it. As a side benefit, it seems that cameras with centralised mounts are attractive to consumers, such the Olympus EM-5, the Fuji X cameras and the Q.

4. Use the DSLR twin-dial hyper-program system. Don't regress to a retro dials like the Nikon DF. Since Pentax lenses don't have aperture rings any more it doesn't make sense anyway.

5. Reduce the battery size to something like the K-30/K-50. It kind of pains me to say this, because I love the long battery life of the K-01, but everyone who picks it up says how heavy it is and that will turn people off at the point of sale.

6. Don't sell it with the standard DSLR kit zooms. Market it with the DA Limited range instead. In fact, Ricoh could create a kind of system-within-a-system of compact silver/black lenses. They are more than half way there, but they could remake the macro 50, the macro 100 and the fisheye 10-17 in the same style and have a nice set of lenses. Of course, there is nothing to stop users mounting FA limited lenses or any other K-mount lens.

7. Price it just under $1000, like the EM-5 and the Fuji XE-2. In the Pentax line-up, it would sit neatly between the K-50 and the K-3, without being a direct competitor to either.

I think this would be a great and practical formula for a camera. It builds on Ricoh's existing products and doesn't carry the risk of introducing a new mount. If released, it would probably be my next camera.

Mine too JPT.

I have been thinking about this the lately and as I was lurking as usual to check if there is any update on the mirrorless front, i came across the thread and your post which reflects EXACTLY my thoughts.

The limited lenses deserve a proper mirrorless body with all the virtues Pentax is kown for; intuitiveness, build quality, good value etc.

I am hoping Ricoh Pentax will not let us down.

RonHendriks1966 · 06-14-2014, 03:44 PM

Well if there is going to be a K-02 in any way I guess Pentax would choose maybe the same route as others are doing. Making a new mount with a fully functioning adapter to the K-mount as Leica and Olympus are doing with their systems.

PiDicus Rex · 06-15-2014, 12:05 AM

I could understand them going to m4/3rds, especially if they bundle an active K-to-m4/3 adapter with the camera so all the lens functions still work, but I don't think there is any need to go away from the K-mount.

For us Video-Shooters, the classic K-mount lenses are just so much more enjoyable to work with then any of the m4/3 glass - part of the appeal is having a proper manual Iris ring, which is missing on EF lenses too, and which allows Iris Pulls once de-clicked, that's very usefull when you're following a performer moving from dark to light areas. And the clutch-less focus rings, without any slip-clutch, and with proper end-stops, means you can rack focus quickly, accurately, and importantly, repeatably, take after take.

K-Mount classic Primes are a joy to use for video compared to modern m4/3, EF or Nikon lenses.

Finding out that so many of the 'film' era K-mount Zooms are Parfocal lenses has just been a bonus - being able to pull off ENG lens styles zooms on a 'lowly' Pentax shocks the heck out of CaNikon shooters on location.

I'm far more likely to buy any hypothetical K-02 if it has a K-mount, then any other mount.

Michail · 06-16-2014, 01:29 PM - **1 Like**

Originally posted by PiDicus Rex

I could understand them going to m4/3rds, especially if they bundle an active K-to-m4/3 adapter with the camera so all the lens functions still work, but I don't think there is any need to go away from the K-mount.

I fully agree.

There is such a solid lens base in the K-mount that it just makes business sense to focus on how the new tech can be leveraged to design a trimmed down body weight/size wise, whilst maintaining decent ergonomics.

Originally posted by PiDicus Rex

I'm far more likely to buy any hypothetical K-02 if it has a K-mount, then any other mount.

Personally all I am waiting for is a modern digital MX, LX, K1000. The reinvention of the simple SLR.

As much as I like the K5, shooting with my Praktica MTL5 is still a more satisfactory experience, almost soul cleansing.

Needless to say that a OVF version would be welcome too

, but that is for another topic.

shaolen · 06-21-2014, 09:57 PM

NO NO NO! there is a reall beauty to the K-01. So many things were done right except it didn't quite have direction. It wasn't finished. It doesn't need a viewfinder or at least if you absolutely need to stick your eye into something make it an optional attachment. Having a built in one would basically make it the size of a DSLR at which point might as well throw the mirror back in, at which point might as well add the grip, at which point get a K-30. What the K-01 is, is the start of what Pentax needs to market for people doing video. Think about it. Most of the people I see getting it are wanting it for either fun or its video capabilities. Leave the body exactly the same, give it phase detect AF, better codec, and an awesome redesigned SR for video purposes, allow external lcd screens to be plugged in with HDMI and usable durring filming and then pentax will have a hit on their hands

Steve.Ledger · 06-21-2014, 10:20 PM

Originally posted by shaolen

........ give it phase detect AF, better codec, and an awesome redesigned SR for video purposes, allow external lcd screens to be plugged in with HDMI and usable durring filming and then pentax will have a hit on their hands

Which they could have easily done right in the first place, why didn't they?

**monochrome** · 06-22-2014, 05:53 AM

Originally posted by Steve.Ledger

Which they could have easily done right in the first place, why didn't they?

Hoya spent $1,000,000 on a hipster graphic designer instead of boring electrical engineers?

PiDicus Rex · 06-22-2014, 06:53 AM

$1m ?

Well, I'd like to volunteer to guide the development of a video-specific K-02, they can pay me the same fee

shaolen · 06-22-2014, 09:41 AM

A K-02 would need to have a flippy LCD screen, we can go ahead and make it 4K and have a Prime M2 processor for processing 4K video at many different frame rates, even slow motion. And they need to make this available to everyone for a body only price of $500 no more than $599

---------- Post added 06-22-14 at 08:44 AM ----------

With this strategy Pentax is avoiding direct competition with competing mirrorless brands, and they'll put them instantly at the top of what is now thought to be a low point for Pentax (and anyone besides canon), the video capabilities. Basically if you want the best of stills you have the K-3, if you want the best of fun you have the Q7, and if you want the best of video you have the K-02

---------- Post added 06-22-14 at 08:53 AM ----------

Originally posted by Steve.Ledger

Which they could have easily done right in the first place, why didn't they?

Hey Steve are you Blunty from YouTube?

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04-23-2014, 07:32 AM	#92
PiDicus Rex Veteran Member Join Date: May 2013 Location: Melbourne, Australia Posts: 1,381	Pistol Grip,.. yah, got something similar, works great with my baby Ixus 105, not really comfortable on my K-01. Jon: I actually don't like the Marc Newson elements of the design, but I love what's inside the camera. That line about doing establishing shots is priceless, I'll have to steal it As for the story, I leave that responsibility to the Director and Writer, and make sure I get the camera and lights right to convey the performances of the actors.

04-23-2014, 07:53 AM	#93
monochrome Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Working From Home Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 26,276	Originally posted by PiDicus Rex Jon: I actually don't like the Marc Newson elements of the design, but I love what's inside the camera. Yeah, the K-01 design is truly binary. I actually was immediately moved to irrationality by the preview images and pre-ordered the K-01. I love the black. But there's certainly no gray area - it is 'either . . . . or . . . . '

04-23-2014, 11:16 AM	#94
jon404 Veteran Member Join Date: Dec 2012 Photos: Gallery Posts: 696	Well, I LIKE the K-01 design. At 70, I've learned that simple and uncluttered goes a long way, and that it is actually much harder to design than something with innumerable controls that aren't used very often. And, as a 'designer' camera, the K-01 follows in the tradition of my first camera, a Kodak Brownie Hawkeye, designed by Arthur Crapsey... around 1950, when industrial product design was so important. If only the K-01 had an OVF... and fast focusing for sports... and... and... but it IS a neat camera, and with a Hoodman loupe gaffer-taped on the back, quite useful.

04-23-2014, 01:43 PM	#95
Steve.Ledger Veteran Member Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: Far North Qld Posts: 3,301	Originally posted by PiDicus Rex Pistol Grip,.. not really comfortable on my K-01. I find it super comfy. Pistol grip in the left hand, right hand on the camera. Tripod quick release plate on the bottom of the pistol grip allows me to mount it on the tripod with almost zero flex. My first reaction to the Newson design was to recoil. But I have to agree with Jon now.

05-29-2014, 10:37 AM	#96
PiDicus Rex Veteran Member Join Date: May 2013 Location: Melbourne, Australia Posts: 1,381	Originally posted by Steve.Ledger Pistol grip in the left hand, right hand on the camera. Ah, that's why - I focus left handed, or I have the left hand under the lens - your grip style would work best with AF, I'm an MF

06-13-2014, 03:43 PM	#97
Michail New Member Join Date: May 2013 Location: London Posts: 5	Originally posted by JPT I think Ricoh could make a success of a "K-02" with following formula. 1. Add an EVF. Don't add a tilting screen to this model. 2. Use an APS-C sensor with some kind of on-sensor PDAF. Almost every other manufacturer has some form of this technology, so I see no reason why Ricoh can't. 3. Adopt a more classic SLR layout, with a more centralised mount. I don't care if it looks retro or not, but when you attach a lens with little to grip (e,d, DA40mm) it is more ergonomic to have space on the body for your left hand to hold. The huge grip on DSLRs is overkill for small lenses and the lack of anything on the body for the left hand to grip is sub-optimal. I love the handling of my MZ-3 film camera with a small lens on it. As a side benefit, it seems that cameras with centralised mounts are attractive to consumers, such the Olympus EM-5, the Fuji X cameras and the Q. 4. Use the DSLR twin-dial hyper-program system. Don't regress to a retro dials like the Nikon DF. Since Pentax lenses don't have aperture rings any more it doesn't make sense anyway. 5. Reduce the battery size to something like the K-30/K-50. It kind of pains me to say this, because I love the long battery life of the K-01, but everyone who picks it up says how heavy it is and that will turn people off at the point of sale. 6. Don't sell it with the standard DSLR kit zooms. Market it with the DA Limited range instead. In fact, Ricoh could create a kind of system-within-a-system of compact silver/black lenses. They are more than half way there, but they could remake the macro 50, the macro 100 and the fisheye 10-17 in the same style and have a nice set of lenses. Of course, there is nothing to stop users mounting FA limited lenses or any other K-mount lens. 7. Price it just under $1000, like the EM-5 and the Fuji XE-2. In the Pentax line-up, it would sit neatly between the K-50 and the K-3, without being a direct competitor to either. I think this would be a great and practical formula for a camera. It builds on Ricoh's existing products and doesn't carry the risk of introducing a new mount. If released, it would probably be my next camera. Mine too JPT. I have been thinking about this the lately and as I was lurking as usual to check if there is any update on the mirrorless front, i came across the thread and your post which reflects EXACTLY my thoughts. The limited lenses deserve a proper mirrorless body with all the virtues Pentax is kown for; intuitiveness, build quality, good value etc. I am hoping Ricoh Pentax will not let us down.

06-14-2014, 03:44 PM	#98
RonHendriks1966 Banned Join Date: Jan 2009 Photos: Gallery Posts: 9,675	Well if there is going to be a K-02 in any way I guess Pentax would choose maybe the same route as others are doing. Making a new mount with a fully functioning adapter to the K-mount as Leica and Olympus are doing with their systems.

06-15-2014, 12:05 AM	#99
PiDicus Rex Veteran Member Join Date: May 2013 Location: Melbourne, Australia Posts: 1,381	I could understand them going to m4/3rds, especially if they bundle an active K-to-m4/3 adapter with the camera so all the lens functions still work, but I don't think there is any need to go away from the K-mount. For us Video-Shooters, the classic K-mount lenses are just so much more enjoyable to work with then any of the m4/3 glass - part of the appeal is having a proper manual Iris ring, which is missing on EF lenses too, and which allows Iris Pulls once de-clicked, that's very usefull when you're following a performer moving from dark to light areas. And the clutch-less focus rings, without any slip-clutch, and with proper end-stops, means you can rack focus quickly, accurately, and importantly, repeatably, take after take. K-Mount classic Primes are a joy to use for video compared to modern m4/3, EF or Nikon lenses. Finding out that so many of the 'film' era K-mount Zooms are Parfocal lenses has just been a bonus - being able to pull off ENG lens styles zooms on a 'lowly' Pentax shocks the heck out of CaNikon shooters on location. I'm far more likely to buy any hypothetical K-02 if it has a K-mount, then any other mount.

06-16-2014, 01:29 PM - 1 Like	#100
Michail New Member Join Date: May 2013 Location: London Posts: 5	Originally posted by PiDicus Rex I could understand them going to m4/3rds, especially if they bundle an active K-to-m4/3 adapter with the camera so all the lens functions still work, but I don't think there is any need to go away from the K-mount. I fully agree. There is such a solid lens base in the K-mount that it just makes business sense to focus on how the new tech can be leveraged to design a trimmed down body weight/size wise, whilst maintaining decent ergonomics. Originally posted by PiDicus Rex I'm far more likely to buy any hypothetical K-02 if it has a K-mount, then any other mount. Personally all I am waiting for is a modern digital MX, LX, K1000. The reinvention of the simple SLR. As much as I like the K5, shooting with my Praktica MTL5 is still a more satisfactory experience, almost soul cleansing. Needless to say that a OVF version would be welcome too , but that is for another topic.

06-21-2014, 09:57 PM	#101
shaolen Veteran Member Join Date: May 2012 Location: Phoenix AZ Posts: 1,047	NO NO NO! there is a reall beauty to the K-01. So many things were done right except it didn't quite have direction. It wasn't finished. It doesn't need a viewfinder or at least if you absolutely need to stick your eye into something make it an optional attachment. Having a built in one would basically make it the size of a DSLR at which point might as well throw the mirror back in, at which point might as well add the grip, at which point get a K-30. What the K-01 is, is the start of what Pentax needs to market for people doing video. Think about it. Most of the people I see getting it are wanting it for either fun or its video capabilities. Leave the body exactly the same, give it phase detect AF, better codec, and an awesome redesigned SR for video purposes, allow external lcd screens to be plugged in with HDMI and usable durring filming and then pentax will have a hit on their hands

06-21-2014, 10:20 PM	#102
Steve.Ledger Veteran Member Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: Far North Qld Posts: 3,301	Originally posted by shaolen ........ give it phase detect AF, better codec, and an awesome redesigned SR for video purposes, allow external lcd screens to be plugged in with HDMI and usable durring filming and then pentax will have a hit on their hands Which they could have easily done right in the first place, why didn't they?

06-22-2014, 05:53 AM	#103
monochrome Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Working From Home Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 26,276	Originally posted by Steve.Ledger Which they could have easily done right in the first place, why didn't they? Hoya spent $1,000,000 on a hipster graphic designer instead of boring electrical engineers?

06-22-2014, 06:53 AM	#104
PiDicus Rex Veteran Member Join Date: May 2013 Location: Melbourne, Australia Posts: 1,381	$1m ? Well, I'd like to volunteer to guide the development of a video-specific K-02, they can pay me the same fee

06-22-2014, 09:41 AM	#105
shaolen Veteran Member Join Date: May 2012 Location: Phoenix AZ Posts: 1,047	A K-02 would need to have a flippy LCD screen, we can go ahead and make it 4K and have a Prime M2 processor for processing 4K video at many different frame rates, even slow motion. And they need to make this available to everyone for a body only price of $500 no more than $599 ---------- Post added 06-22-14 at 08:44 AM ---------- With this strategy Pentax is avoiding direct competition with competing mirrorless brands, and they'll put them instantly at the top of what is now thought to be a low point for Pentax (and anyone besides canon), the video capabilities. Basically if you want the best of stills you have the K-3, if you want the best of fun you have the Q7, and if you want the best of video you have the K-02 ---------- Post added 06-22-14 at 08:53 AM ---------- Originally posted by Steve.Ledger Which they could have easily done right in the first place, why didn't they? Hey Steve are you Blunty from YouTube?