You own the K-01. Soon the K-S1 will launch...

**Mikesul** · 11-02-2014, 06:49 AM

Darn! I had pretty much convinced myself I did not need a K-S1 until I saw your pictures. That is a handsome camera and the size is wonderful. If only it was weather sealed!

k5astro · 11-02-2014, 08:19 AM - **1 Like**

I don't get this poll. The two cameras are different types. They don't seem like competing platforms at all.

**THoog** · 11-02-2014, 08:41 AM

Originally posted by gbeaton

I don't get this poll. The two cameras are different types. They don't seem like competing platforms at all.

It depends on how you categorize the K-01, which really is in a category by itself. It's the only MILC with a legacy DSLR lens mount, or MILC/DSLR hybrid.

If you think in terms of size and "K-mount cameras", or "how much space/weight will this take in my bag?", then the two have a lot in common, as well in terms of handling and lens choices.

**luftfluss** · 11-02-2014, 05:16 PM

Originally posted by gbeaton

I don't get this poll. The two cameras are different types. They don't seem like competing platforms at all.

They are not "competing".

The K-01 is a quirky camera, and the K-S1 is also a bit quirky. Some people (like me) find this to be a positive attribute, so I was curious... and also, the K-S1 seems to be as much of a spiritual successor to the K-01 as we are likely to get, unfortunately.

**Tony Belding** · 11-03-2014, 06:01 AM

Originally posted by luftfluss

and also, the K-S1 seems to be as much of a spiritual successor to the K-01 as we are likely to get, unfortunately.

Maybe that's true in the short term. Eventually DSLRs will be recognized as the technological dinosaurs they are, and Ricoh/Pentax will have to produce bigger-than-Q mirrorless system cameras or go out of business.

**THoog** · 11-03-2014, 06:33 AM

Originally posted by Tony Belding

Maybe that's true in the short term. Eventually DSLRs will be recognized as the technological dinosaurs they are, and Ricoh/Pentax will have to produce bigger-than-Q mirrorless system cameras or go out of business.

That may be true, but to be competitive, that future Pentax mirrorless will need to abandon the dinosaur technology that the K-01 shares with DSLRs, and will be a completely new thing, not a spiritual successor.

**Tony Belding** · 11-03-2014, 07:55 AM

Originally posted by THoog

That may be true, but to be competitive, that future Pentax mirrorless will need to abandon the dinosaur technology that the K-01 shares with DSLRs, and will be a completely new thing, not a spiritual successor.

Could you be specific about which "dinosaur technology" the K-01 shares with DSLRs? It's gotten rid of the mirror and prism. What else needs to go?

It could be possible to create a newer lens mount that moves the lens back much closer to the sensor and makes everything smaller -- but how would that be worthwhile for Pentax? It's not like the K-01 is a behemoth camera, and those who truly want a small system will go for the Q lineup anyhow. Pentax are already supporting the whole Q, K and 645 mounts, which seem to cover all the bases pretty well, so adding yet another to the mix doesn't seem wise to me.

cecanima · 11-03-2014, 08:44 AM

Originally posted by Tony Belding

Could you be specific about which "dinosaur technology" the K-01 shares with DSLRs? It's gotten rid of the mirror and prism. What else needs to go?

It could be possible to create a newer lens mount that moves the lens back much closer to the sensor and makes everything smaller -- but how would that be worthwhile for Pentax? It's not like the K-01 is a behemoth camera, and those who truly want a small system will go for the Q lineup anyhow. Pentax are already supporting the whole Q, K and 645 mounts, which seem to cover all the bases pretty well, so adding yet another to the mix doesn't seem wise to me.

Damn! That's such a brilliant idea. I haven't heard of such thing been made before. A k-mount that will move in relation to the sensor can be used to get in camera macro and tilt-shift. That is crazy good idea!

**THoog** · 11-03-2014, 10:36 AM

Originally posted by Tony Belding

Could you be specific about which "dinosaur technology" the K-01 shares with DSLRs? It's gotten rid of the mirror and prism. What else needs to go?

All of the other analog mechanical linkages between the body and lenses - aperture control, screw drive, A-series lens parameter coding - and a big empty box of air where the mirror used to be. If the analog viewfinder makes DLSRs dinosaurs, why not the other decades-old analog technology?

The K-01 received plenty of harsh criticism for being larger than the "beer can and a pack of smokes" MILCs, which were not only smaller, but were able to support (in a limited fashion) more lenses. While recent MILCs appear to be growing towards small DSLRs in size, K-mount cameras can't get significantly smaller. The combination of mirror box and SR chassis eat up a lot of volume that other MILCs can use for additional electronics, providing more features and capabilities.

(NB: I'm playing Devil's Advocate - I love the legacy lens support, but it is a constraint that MILCs just don't have.)

Doundounba · 11-03-2014, 12:15 PM

Originally posted by Tony Belding

It's not like the K-01 is a behemoth camera, and those who truly want a small system will go for the Q lineup anyhow.

In a word, for me personally, no. I've been shooting the K-01 for almost two years. I'd like to upgrade soon. The K-S1, which is about the same weight as the K-01, is (IMHO) arbitrarily crippled (no interval shooting, no multi-exposure, no astrotracing). And I for one am certainly not moving wholly to the Q system and it's point-and-shoot-sized sensor. For me the choice I have right now is more or less threefold:

A) bulk up to a K-3;
B) move to another mirrorless APS-C provider;
C) go to m4/3.

What I wish Ricoh would do is make an alliance with either Fuji or Samsung to create an APS-C mirrorless mount alliance similar to what Panasonic and Olympus have for m4/3. They can then keep making k-mount APS-C DSLRs while also introducing competitive mirrorless bodies using a mount they won't have to support by themselves.

But I doubt that will happen...

**monochrome** · 11-03-2014, 12:48 PM

I predict mirrorless APS and FF will come to the same ho hum stasis as m43, while passive OVF / mirrored ILC technology will continue to serve its constituencies for decades to come.

**THoog** · 11-03-2014, 12:56 PM

Originally posted by Doundounba

The K-S1, which is about the same weight as the K-01, is (IMHO) arbitrarily crippled (no interval shooting, no multi-exposure, no astrotracing)

I can't prove this without becoming Japanese and getting a job at Ricoh, but I suspect that the code for FluCard support took up enough storage to squeeze out the other features. IIRC, the K-01 has a main circuit board about the size of a point-n-shoot's, with a smaller daughter card that the SD card reader is on. The K-S1 appears to have an even smaller bay for electronics, making real estate on the circuit board more expensive, and more firmware storage may not have been practical.

Doundounba · 11-03-2014, 01:06 PM

Originally posted by monochrome

I predict mirrorless APS and FF will come to the same ho hum stasis as m43

Not sure where you're getting that m4/3 is in a "ho hum stasis"... The numbers I've seen show that while still much smaller than the DSLR market, mirrorless is growing, while DSLR is shrinking. And cameras like the GH4, EM-1 & EM-10, as well as lenses like the Olympus 40-150mm hardly seem "ho hum". Neither does the Samsung NX1 - a mirrorless APS-C camera. But personally, I'm not too interested in predicting the future of cameraland, I just want to pick my next body and have a camera that will suit me.

I have no doubt that the K-3 is an excellent camera. It's currently the leading option for me to (eventually) replace my K-01 bodies. But every camera choice is a compromise - the camera and its system will fit your needs and your style to varying degrees and that fit is never (ok, rarely) perfect. Certainly, size and weight are something that bother me about the K-3...

**monochrome** · 11-03-2014, 01:35 PM

Originally posted by Doundounba

Certainly, size and weight are something that bother me about the K-3...

Everything else I've tried is just too small and light for me to effectively control. For snapshots I just go all the way and use a Q7. I really, truly do not understand the cargo cult fetishism about mirrorless.

**luftfluss** · 11-03-2014, 04:14 PM

Originally posted by monochrome

Everything else I've tried is just too small and light for me to effectively control. For snapshots I just go all the way and use a Q7. I really, truly do not understand the cargo cult fetishism about mirrorless.

Don't know about fetishism, but I think I prefer mirrorless to mirrored. No slap, no body/lens adjustments, focus peaking... mmm, sounds good.

View Poll Results: What will you do?
Buy the K-S1 within the first 90 days, keep the beloved K-01	1	1.52%
Buy the K-S1 within the first 90 days, sell/bequeath the K-01	2	3.03%
Ignore the K-S1	43	65.15%
Probably buy the K-S1 at some point in the future, keep the K-01	15	22.73%
Probably buy the K-S1 at some point in the future, sell/bequeath the K-01	3	4.55%
Migrate to a different brand	2	3.03%
Voters: 66. You may not vote on this poll

11-02-2014, 08:41 AM	#33
THoog Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Aug 2012 Location: North Carolina Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 3,685	Originally posted by gbeaton I don't get this poll. The two cameras are different types. They don't seem like competing platforms at all. It depends on how you categorize the K-01, which really is in a category by itself. It's the only MILC with a legacy DSLR lens mount, or MILC/DSLR hybrid. If you think in terms of size and "K-mount cameras", or "how much space/weight will this take in my bag?", then the two have a lot in common, as well in terms of handling and lens choices. Last edited by THoog; 11-02-2014 at 08:55 AM.

11-03-2014, 10:36 AM	#39
THoog Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Aug 2012 Location: North Carolina Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 3,685	Originally posted by Tony Belding Could you be specific about which "dinosaur technology" the K-01 shares with DSLRs? It's gotten rid of the mirror and prism. What else needs to go? All of the other analog mechanical linkages between the body and lenses - aperture control, screw drive, A-series lens parameter coding - and a big empty box of air where the mirror used to be. If the analog viewfinder makes DLSRs dinosaurs, why not the other decades-old analog technology? The K-01 received plenty of harsh criticism for being larger than the "beer can and a pack of smokes" MILCs, which were not only smaller, but were able to support (in a limited fashion) more lenses. While recent MILCs appear to be growing towards small DSLRs in size, K-mount cameras can't get significantly smaller. The combination of mirror box and SR chassis eat up a lot of volume that other MILCs can use for additional electronics, providing more features and capabilities. (NB: I'm playing Devil's Advocate - I love the legacy lens support, but it is a constraint that MILCs just don't have.) Last edited by THoog; 11-03-2014 at 02:19 PM.

11-03-2014, 01:06 PM	#43
Doundounba Pentaxian Join Date: Dec 2012 Location: Montréal QC Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 2,351	Originally posted by monochrome I predict mirrorless APS and FF will come to the same ho hum stasis as m43 Not sure where you're getting that m4/3 is in a "ho hum stasis"... The numbers I've seen show that while still much smaller than the DSLR market, mirrorless is growing, while DSLR is shrinking. And cameras like the GH4, EM-1 & EM-10, as well as lenses like the Olympus 40-150mm hardly seem "ho hum". Neither does the Samsung NX1 - a mirrorless APS-C camera. But personally, I'm not too interested in predicting the future of cameraland, I just want to pick my next body and have a camera that will suit me. I have no doubt that the K-3 is an excellent camera. It's currently the leading option for me to (eventually) replace my K-01 bodies. But every camera choice is a compromise - the camera and its system will fit your needs and your style to varying degrees and that fit is never (ok, rarely) perfect. Certainly, size and weight are something that bother me about the K-3... Last edited by Doundounba; 11-03-2014 at 01:12 PM.

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11-02-2014, 06:49 AM	#31
Mikesul Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Phoenix, AZ Posts: 7,591	Darn! I had pretty much convinced myself I did not need a K-S1 until I saw your pictures. That is a handsome camera and the size is wonderful. If only it was weather sealed!

11-02-2014, 08:19 AM - 1 Like	#32
k5astro Veteran Member Join Date: Apr 2012 Photos: Albums Posts: 387	I don't get this poll. The two cameras are different types. They don't seem like competing platforms at all.

11-02-2014, 05:16 PM	#34
luftfluss Site Supporter Join Date: Jun 2011 Location: NJ Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 11,618 Original Poster	Originally posted by gbeaton I don't get this poll. The two cameras are different types. They don't seem like competing platforms at all. They are not "competing". The K-01 is a quirky camera, and the K-S1 is also a bit quirky. Some people (like me) find this to be a positive attribute, so I was curious... and also, the K-S1 seems to be as much of a spiritual successor to the K-01 as we are likely to get, unfortunately.

11-03-2014, 06:01 AM	#35
Tony Belding Site Supporter Join Date: Mar 2013 Location: Hamilton, Texas Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 777	Originally posted by luftfluss and also, the K-S1 seems to be as much of a spiritual successor to the K-01 as we are likely to get, unfortunately. Maybe that's true in the short term. Eventually DSLRs will be recognized as the technological dinosaurs they are, and Ricoh/Pentax will have to produce bigger-than-Q mirrorless system cameras or go out of business.

11-03-2014, 06:33 AM	#36
THoog Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Aug 2012 Location: North Carolina Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 3,685	Originally posted by Tony Belding Maybe that's true in the short term. Eventually DSLRs will be recognized as the technological dinosaurs they are, and Ricoh/Pentax will have to produce bigger-than-Q mirrorless system cameras or go out of business. That may be true, but to be competitive, that future Pentax mirrorless will need to abandon the dinosaur technology that the K-01 shares with DSLRs, and will be a completely new thing, not a spiritual successor.

11-03-2014, 07:55 AM	#37
Tony Belding Site Supporter Join Date: Mar 2013 Location: Hamilton, Texas Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 777	Originally posted by THoog That may be true, but to be competitive, that future Pentax mirrorless will need to abandon the dinosaur technology that the K-01 shares with DSLRs, and will be a completely new thing, not a spiritual successor. Could you be specific about which "dinosaur technology" the K-01 shares with DSLRs? It's gotten rid of the mirror and prism. What else needs to go? It could be possible to create a newer lens mount that moves the lens back much closer to the sensor and makes everything smaller -- but how would that be worthwhile for Pentax? It's not like the K-01 is a behemoth camera, and those who truly want a small system will go for the Q lineup anyhow. Pentax are already supporting the whole Q, K and 645 mounts, which seem to cover all the bases pretty well, so adding yet another to the mix doesn't seem wise to me.

11-03-2014, 08:44 AM	#38
cecanima New Member Join Date: Aug 2014 Photos: Gallery Posts: 12	Originally posted by Tony Belding Could you be specific about which "dinosaur technology" the K-01 shares with DSLRs? It's gotten rid of the mirror and prism. What else needs to go? It could be possible to create a newer lens mount that moves the lens back much closer to the sensor and makes everything smaller -- but how would that be worthwhile for Pentax? It's not like the K-01 is a behemoth camera, and those who truly want a small system will go for the Q lineup anyhow. Pentax are already supporting the whole Q, K and 645 mounts, which seem to cover all the bases pretty well, so adding yet another to the mix doesn't seem wise to me. Damn! That's such a brilliant idea. I haven't heard of such thing been made before. A k-mount that will move in relation to the sensor can be used to get in camera macro and tilt-shift. That is crazy good idea!

11-03-2014, 12:15 PM	#40
Doundounba Pentaxian Join Date: Dec 2012 Location: Montréal QC Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 2,351	Originally posted by Tony Belding It's not like the K-01 is a behemoth camera, and those who truly want a small system will go for the Q lineup anyhow. In a word, for me personally, no. I've been shooting the K-01 for almost two years. I'd like to upgrade soon. The K-S1, which is about the same weight as the K-01, is (IMHO) arbitrarily crippled (no interval shooting, no multi-exposure, no astrotracing). And I for one am certainly not moving wholly to the Q system and it's point-and-shoot-sized sensor. For me the choice I have right now is more or less threefold: A) bulk up to a K-3; B) move to another mirrorless APS-C provider; C) go to m4/3. What I wish Ricoh would do is make an alliance with either Fuji or Samsung to create an APS-C mirrorless mount alliance similar to what Panasonic and Olympus have for m4/3. They can then keep making k-mount APS-C DSLRs while also introducing competitive mirrorless bodies using a mount they won't have to support by themselves. But I doubt that will happen...

11-03-2014, 12:48 PM	#41
monochrome Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Working From Home Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 26,276	I predict mirrorless APS and FF will come to the same ho hum stasis as m43, while passive OVF / mirrored ILC technology will continue to serve its constituencies for decades to come.

11-03-2014, 12:56 PM	#42
THoog Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Aug 2012 Location: North Carolina Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 3,685	Originally posted by Doundounba The K-S1, which is about the same weight as the K-01, is (IMHO) arbitrarily crippled (no interval shooting, no multi-exposure, no astrotracing) I can't prove this without becoming Japanese and getting a job at Ricoh, but I suspect that the code for FluCard support took up enough storage to squeeze out the other features. IIRC, the K-01 has a main circuit board about the size of a point-n-shoot's, with a smaller daughter card that the SD card reader is on. The K-S1 appears to have an even smaller bay for electronics, making real estate on the circuit board more expensive, and more firmware storage may not have been practical.

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11-03-2014, 01:35 PM	#44
monochrome Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Working From Home Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 26,276	Originally posted by Doundounba Certainly, size and weight are something that bother me about the K-3... Everything else I've tried is just too small and light for me to effectively control. For snapshots I just go all the way and use a Q7. I really, truly do not understand the cargo cult fetishism about mirrorless.

11-03-2014, 04:14 PM	#45
luftfluss Site Supporter Join Date: Jun 2011 Location: NJ Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 11,618 Original Poster	Originally posted by monochrome Everything else I've tried is just too small and light for me to effectively control. For snapshots I just go all the way and use a Q7. I really, truly do not understand the cargo cult fetishism about mirrorless. Don't know about fetishism, but I think I prefer mirrorless to mirrored. No slap, no body/lens adjustments, focus peaking... mmm, sounds good.