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10-26-2014, 06:30 PM   #16
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QuoteOriginally posted by discharged Quote
It is hard to tell what specifically gave me the nauseous feeling but the things that I noticed was

1. changes in brightness,
2. some sort of flicker when i focused on different things,
3. motion lag
i've barfed on airplanes, a boat, and carnival rides, but i've never gotten nauseous from the a7r evf.

noticeable evf motion lag should only happen in poor lighting conditions, because the evf cuts down the framerate of the feed to the evf, in order to recreate the exact image that you will be recording... it's wysiwyg.

you can turn that wysiwyg functionality off in the setup menu, if you want to cripple the evf, and make it act like an ovf.

10-28-2014, 07:25 AM   #17
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I like the evf on the Sony A6000, and I like the one I bought for my wife's lumix lx7. I go nuts trying to use the screens on the back. To each his own.
11-02-2014, 08:09 AM   #18
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Wow. I hadn't heard this before either but good to know. I'll bet its due to the lag and the rolling shutter. I've always felt optical viewfinders the most comfortable to use.
12-17-2014, 08:42 PM   #19
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We are all a little different and have different needs and sensitivities. Some friends keep their houses dark with only indirect lighting because the wrong flicker in the light can trigger a migraine. Flickering lights have even been known to trigger a seizure in some.

Maybe a mirrorless camera is just not the best solution for everyone, but it is a good thing the OP was able to try it out.

07-03-2015, 09:47 AM   #20
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I see this reported occasionally as the reason some don't like EVF and prefer OVF.

There's quite a history of headaches with TV's CRT, flicker rates and even articles on Wikipedia

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flicker_(screen)

I don't get headaches from EVFs myself, but my wife got headaches from the old fluorescent tubes, less so from the new ones, and none from the modern LCD/LED monitors.

I noticed today, that the K3 has an option under "flicker" in the tool part of the menu to choose between 50Hz and 60Hz. The 50 Hz is the default, but those seeing flicker can reduce it by choosing 60Hz apparently.

Its a good topic to keep alive, i believe. For those that suffer from it, try to test out EVFs and monitors on cameras ahead of buying or as soon as they arrive at your house. Not everybody reacts the same.

Last edited by philbaum; 07-03-2015 at 11:42 AM.
07-03-2015, 11:09 AM   #21
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I would like to know who are the supposed pros who spend all day every day looking at these screens. To me they don't feel right and I've tried a few (A7II, EM5 II, lots of Fuji's, etc). The Fuji X100T felt the least tiring but I still prefer OVFs.

I am a musician so I was tired of hearing the "you gotta use the newer technology or you are not a pro" argument in the 90s - from the bedroom warriors... But most pros kept using tube amps... And now tube amps still are the pro amps of choice.

I suspect the same will be true of OVFs and EVFs. Real guitars and tube amps are out there, analog synths rule electronic music again... People always draw back to what is or feels more "real", in general, they spend a ton of time doing something.

But in the meantime feel free to believe the sales pitch that you gotta have the new thing because all the pros are using it... Which I don't think is the truth.
07-03-2015, 12:18 PM   #22
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QuoteOriginally posted by ChristianRock Quote
But in the meantime feel free to believe the sales pitch that you gotta have the new thing because all the pros are using it... Which I don't think is the truth.
I don't recall anyone saying that you have to buy mirrorless because all the pros are using it - please provide your source for that.

And what the heck does music have to do with photography???

I've been selling pictures since 2009, but don't regard myself a pro. I'm more of a pro at being retired :-)

I don't really care what pros are buying anyway - its interesting but thats all. Like you, i only care about what fits my needs and feels right. For me, i like smaller and lighter cameras, smaller and lighter packs. That seems to be a trend with several photographers - on the forums i read - anyway.

Last edited by philbaum; 07-03-2015 at 02:56 PM.
07-03-2015, 07:58 PM   #23
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I thought I explained the link between my music and photography when I talk about people drawing back to what is more real instead of the emulation that just ends up not feeling right. I can see that someone that isn't a musician probably won't get the similarity. But it really does convince me that EVFs are not going to eliminate the OVF any more than digital amps eliminated tubes. Now both technologies are basically side to side but tube amps still rule the pro world.

The pro reference comes from several threads in the non-Pentax cameras forums...

07-03-2015, 08:42 PM   #24
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I have no problems with my Oly one and I'm actually very prone towards vertigo, motion sickness etc. I don't like fisheye lenses or photos because they really mess with me somehow that way. I don't like strobes because I can get migraines using them. I can't say I've ever had much trouble with the EVF though I'm not using it solely. My E-P3's they have excellent touch focus and I now have 2 great AF Sigma primes for M43 so I'm using the TF more and more these days. My eyes can be pretty crappy some days. The camera's focus is usually better than mine, particularly with the TF thing factored in...
07-03-2015, 09:05 PM   #25
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QuoteOriginally posted by ChristianRock Quote
...Real guitars and tube amps are out there, analog synths rule electronic music again...
It's not just analog synths; the Yamaha DX7 is back in style and that's as digital-sounding as it gets.
07-04-2015, 12:51 AM   #26
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QuoteOriginally posted by philbaum Quote
I don't recall anyone saying that you have to buy mirrorless because all the pros are using it - please provide your source for that.

And what the heck does music have to do with photography???

I've been selling pictures since 2009, but don't regard myself a pro. I'm more of a pro at being retired :-)

I don't really care what pros are buying anyway - its interesting but thats all. Like you, i only care about what fits my needs and feels right. For me, i like smaller and lighter cameras, smaller and lighter packs. That seems to be a trend with several photographers - on the forums i read - anyway.
I think it's more of the MILC evangelists we had around here at a point with the
"EVF is the future and all you guys are losers" type claims.

This is a good topic.
I certain know that different people have different tolerance to it.
Even in the old days, I played FPS for hours without ill effects while some friends went queezy within 10mins.


There is certainly room/options for everybody.
07-04-2015, 07:09 AM   #27
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QuoteOriginally posted by ChristianRock Quote
I thought I explained the link between my music and photography when I talk about people drawing back to what is more real instead of the emulation that just ends up not feeling right. I can see that someone that isn't a musician probably won't get the similarity. But it really does convince me that EVFs are not going to eliminate the OVF any more than digital amps eliminated tubes. Now both technologies are basically side to side but tube amps still rule the pro world.

The pro reference comes from several threads in the non-Pentax cameras forums...

That's not an appropriate analogy. Analog and digital synths generate notes differently, whereas OVF and EVF have no impact on how a camera generates an image. A more appropriate comparison for your synth argument would be film vs digital sensor.

I agree with Pinholecam - there's for everybody.
07-05-2015, 01:13 AM   #28
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Funny that this old thread got activity once again. I can agree to some extent with ChristianRock in that the pros are normally not early adaptors, thats where enthusiasts come in. Professionals in any area usually sticks to what works since they need to get the job done and cannot afford thee problems early adaptors usually encounter. (Sports etc is ofcourse excluded since you need to try anything to get the edge ). And another reason is that pros are normally very "bought in" to their system with optics, accessories and so on.

Anyway I tried an EVF some more a while back and I think that I have narrowed it down now, it is the short delay from movement to the eye seeing it. A friend tried the same camera and thought there was no lag at all. So I guess I am more sensitive to the delay than most people, since I noticed it straight away. Until they get the lag to a level where I am unable to notIce it I will have to stick with OVF. All i can recommend is not to order a camera with EVF from tye internet unseen, but to go to a local shop and try it out first!
07-05-2015, 01:34 PM   #29
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QuoteOriginally posted by discharged Quote
Anyway I tried an EVF some more a while back and I think that I have narrowed it down now, it is the short delay from movement to the eye seeing it. A friend tried the same camera and thought there was no lag at all. So I guess I am more sensitive to the delay than most people, since I noticed it straight away. Until they get the lag to a level where I am unable to notIce it I will have to stick with OVF. All i can recommend is not to order a camera with EVF from tye internet unseen, but to go to a local shop and try it out first!
Processing speeds seem to be going up fast. 4K video seems to be driving some of it. Best thing to do is turn off various options in mirrorless cameras that suck up the processing speed, like previews, image processing, etc. My mirrorless lets one turn off the LCD screen, or even in auto turns it off. etc.

For some reason, I've heard of several recent camera purchases from photo club members and these are the numbers:

D810 - 2
D750 -1
Pre-order A7RII - 3 (and 1 more on the fence)

So its even-steven between mirrorless and DSLR in the last 2 months :-)
07-05-2015, 05:08 PM   #30
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Are we so poor that we are reduced to one miserable viewfinder?

This old one came standard with:

Optical Kalart with parallel correction
Sports Finder
Ground Glass
Illuminated spot finder
Optical Rangefinder
Scale focussing by the rack
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