EVF - makes you sick?

discharged · 10-09-2014, 01:45 AM

Hello. I've been shooting DSLR for quite a few years, and before that I've had SLR cameras.

Now a while back I decided that I wanted to take full advantage of my many old lenses and I felt a need for better ISO handling so I decided that a full-frame was the logical next step. I went to the local store to get a feel for the Sony A7 and more specifically the A7S. After using the EVF for about 30 seconds I thought I was going to puke, literally.

I have no tendencies what so ever for car sickness or sea sickness so I don't know why I have such problems watching an EVF. Am I alone or are there more people with the same problems? Is sonys implementation worse than what others have?

aurele · 10-09-2014, 01:50 AM

personnally, EVF gives me headhache. I guess, you have to get a bit used to it.

It's basically that you are looking at a screen, so maybe the EVF is a bit to bright (that's what's causing me headache ...).

btnapa · 10-09-2014, 03:09 AM

As EVFs go Sony has one of the best if not the best.

I'm in the same boat with you. I did not puke like you did but I did not like the feel of the A7's EVF at all. If they said tomorrow that EVF is all that is available, I will learn to like it. Until such time, I like my optical viewfinder a lot more.

I also tried a friend's NEX7 just last week. It has an EVF which I do not like. But it has focus peaking which allows for very precise focusing with old manual lenses. That feature I liked a lot. For my aging eyes which are not good enough for manual lenses the focus peaking opens up a whole new world.

We were testing some old legacy manual focus Konica lenses I have. First we tried the EVF and of course it was hit or miss and a painful process. Then I "discovered" the focus peaking feature of the NEX7 and it became fun, a lot of fun. We started to get incredibly sharp and precisely focused results.

I am now considering an NEX type body just for my manual lenses. BTW, the video quality of the Sony is far superior to anything Pentax offers!

I believe the A7 series also has the focus peaking feature. Try it you may like it this time.

Mazhe · 10-09-2014, 06:00 AM

I never, ever, understood how we repeat that people must have a secure working distance from LCD screen and we have camera manufacturers that tells us to put our eyes against one.

I hate EVFs: they put a lot of fatigue on the eye quickly, they lag, they are overly bright or overly dark, they display insane level of noise...

**blackcloudbrew** · 10-09-2014, 06:39 AM - **1 Like**

Wow, I have not heard any of this before about EVF's. Don't have one and not headed in that direction either but...this is good info to file away for the future.

**THoog** · 10-09-2014, 06:55 AM

I've heard of headaches, not so much nausea - it wouldn't surprise me if you were trying to track action with a laggy EVF (because of the mismatch between what your eye is seeing and your inner ear is sensing), but the A7 VF is supposed to be really good, so I am puzzled.

JinDesu · 10-09-2014, 06:58 AM

OP is saying that he got nauseous from specifically the A7's EVF - so if that's supposed to be a really good EVF, then there likely isn't an EVF that will keep him from getting that sea-sick feeling.

pete-tarmigan · 10-09-2014, 07:18 AM - **1 Like**

Originally posted by discharged

Now a while back I decided that I wanted to take full advantage of my many old lenses and I felt a need for better ISO handling so I decided that a full-frame was the logical next step. I went to the local store to get a feel for the Sony A7 and more specifically the A7S. After using the EVF for about 30 seconds I thought I was going to puke, literally.

I have no tendencies what so ever for car sickness or sea sickness so I don't know why I have such problems watching an EVF. Am I alone or are there more people with the same problems? Is sonys implementation worse than what others have?

In the news a few years back it was reported that users of 3-D virtual reality gear often suffered motion sickness. The problem was traced to an imperceptible lag between the user's physical motions and the resulting change in the visual image. The software programmers, greedy for more hardware resources to make the graphics more impressive, maxed out their use of the computer hardware as much as possible without creating a perceptible lag. Unfortunately, other parts of the brain were freaked out by the lack of synchrony between physical and visual sensory input and made the users sick.

In other words, I'm not surprised that EVFs give some people motion sickness.

phoned · 10-09-2014, 07:21 AM

I get sick playing video games so I suspect using an EVF will be much the same.

**boriscleto** · 10-09-2014, 07:29 AM

Originally posted by pete-tarmigan

In the news a few years back it was reported that users of 3-D virtual reality gear often suffered motion sickness..

Motion sickness was always a problem with 'virtual reality'. It was one of the main complaints about the Nintendo Virtual Boy for example.

Originally posted by phoned

I get sick playing video games so I suspect using an EVF will be much the same.

I remember people complaining about motion sickness when Descent 3 came out back in the late-90s.

discharged · 10-09-2014, 07:40 AM

It is hard to tell what specifically gave me the nauseous feeling but the things that I noticed was

1. changes in brightness,
2. some sort of flicker when i focused on different things,
3. motion lag

What I know about myself:
1. I am unable to watch most DLP projectors because "all I see" is the rainbow effect. - not nauseous but it is very irritating.
2. I don't have perfect vision but don't wear glasses.

I'm going to the local store again in a few days to get a new ballhead and I can have another go at the camera at that time to see if I can pinpoint the cause any closer.

6BQ5 · 10-09-2014, 12:41 PM

Could you have gotten the motion sickness because your body felt one thing but your eyes saw another? If the image was such that the projection covered 180 degrees of your view then you had no reference for your eyes of boundaries. There was no border?

I don't know ... I'm just grasping at straws here based on my experience with an IMAX movie. The screen was a dome that completely covered my field of vision. Looking straight ahead I didn't see anything but the movie. When the image panned or tilted I had a weird motion sickness feeling. It wasnt bad. It was just that I felt the world moving/shifting/tilting around me but I was perfectly still.

JinDesu · 10-09-2014, 12:55 PM

Originally posted by 6BQ5

Could you have gotten the motion sickness because your body felt one thing but your eyes saw another? If the image was such that the projection covered 180 degrees of your view then you had no reference for your eyes of boundaries. There was no border?

I don't know ... I'm just grasping at straws here based on my experience with an IMAX movie. The screen was a dome that completely covered my field of vision. Looking straight ahead I didn't see anything but the movie. When the image panned or tilted I had a weird motion sickness feeling. It wasnt bad. It was just that I felt the world moving/shifting/tilting around me but I was perfectly still.

Different people suffer from different things with regards to EVF. Sometimes it's the refresh rate - if the refresh rate is slow enough where the human eye can distinguish frame changes (especially when panning), it can be disorienting. Otherwise it can also be the fact that the image is stabilized - similar to when looking through an OVF with an optically stabilized lens. Also, it can be the intensity of light/contrast of the EVF, where the image just doesn't look like real life and the mind cannot reconcile it.

**Lowell Goudge** · 10-26-2014, 04:43 PM

It's funny, I used an EVF in my old Kodak5MP bridge camera for years. Never had an issue. I use a.V5 viewfinder loud on the Q for eye level viewing no issues there either.

**Tony Belding** · 10-26-2014, 05:50 PM

The viewfinder on my Olympus E-M5 has been very good, and I've heard the ones on their newer cameras are further improved. I've never felt anything like motion sickness from it -- but I'm not usually prone to motion sickness anyhow. It's different from an OVF, but I find the EVF has its own benefits in terms of showing a live view closer to the image the camera will record, with current settings applied.

10-09-2014, 01:45 AM	#1
discharged Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2014 Location: viking country Photos: Albums Posts: 276	EVF - makes you sick? Hello. I've been shooting DSLR for quite a few years, and before that I've had SLR cameras. Now a while back I decided that I wanted to take full advantage of my many old lenses and I felt a need for better ISO handling so I decided that a full-frame was the logical next step. I went to the local store to get a feel for the Sony A7 and more specifically the A7S. After using the EVF for about 30 seconds I thought I was going to puke, literally. I have no tendencies what so ever for car sickness or sea sickness so I don't know why I have such problems watching an EVF. Am I alone or are there more people with the same problems? Is sonys implementation worse than what others have?

10-09-2014, 06:55 AM	#6
THoog Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Aug 2012 Location: North Carolina Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 3,685	I've heard of headaches, not so much nausea - it wouldn't surprise me if you were trying to track action with a laggy EVF (because of the mismatch between what your eye is seeing and your inner ear is sensing), but the A7 VF is supposed to be really good, so I am puzzled. Last edited by THoog; 10-09-2014 at 07:11 AM. Reason: clarity

10-09-2014, 07:29 AM	#10
boriscleto Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: North Syracuse, NY Photos: Gallery Posts: 16,477	Originally posted by pete-tarmigan In the news a few years back it was reported that users of 3-D virtual reality gear often suffered motion sickness.. Motion sickness was always a problem with 'virtual reality'. It was one of the main complaints about the Nintendo Virtual Boy for example. Originally posted by phoned I get sick playing video games so I suspect using an EVF will be much the same. I remember people complaining about motion sickness when Descent 3 came out back in the late-90s. Last edited by boriscleto; 10-09-2014 at 07:39 AM.

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10-09-2014, 01:50 AM	#2
aurele Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2011 Location: Paris, France Photos: Albums Posts: 3,217	personnally, EVF gives me headhache. I guess, you have to get a bit used to it. It's basically that you are looking at a screen, so maybe the EVF is a bit to bright (that's what's causing me headache ...).

10-09-2014, 03:09 AM	#3
btnapa Pentaxian Join Date: Oct 2013 Posts: 1,621	As EVFs go Sony has one of the best if not the best. I'm in the same boat with you. I did not puke like you did but I did not like the feel of the A7's EVF at all. If they said tomorrow that EVF is all that is available, I will learn to like it. Until such time, I like my optical viewfinder a lot more. I also tried a friend's NEX7 just last week. It has an EVF which I do not like. But it has focus peaking which allows for very precise focusing with old manual lenses. That feature I liked a lot. For my aging eyes which are not good enough for manual lenses the focus peaking opens up a whole new world. We were testing some old legacy manual focus Konica lenses I have. First we tried the EVF and of course it was hit or miss and a painful process. Then I "discovered" the focus peaking feature of the NEX7 and it became fun, a lot of fun. We started to get incredibly sharp and precisely focused results. I am now considering an NEX type body just for my manual lenses. BTW, the video quality of the Sony is far superior to anything Pentax offers! I believe the A7 series also has the focus peaking feature. Try it you may like it this time.

10-09-2014, 06:00 AM	#4
Mazhe Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2012 Photos: Gallery Posts: 139	I never, ever, understood how we repeat that people must have a secure working distance from LCD screen and we have camera manufacturers that tells us to put our eyes against one. I hate EVFs: they put a lot of fatigue on the eye quickly, they lag, they are overly bright or overly dark, they display insane level of noise...

10-09-2014, 06:39 AM - 1 Like	#5
blackcloudbrew Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Cotati, California USA Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 4,461	Wow, I have not heard any of this before about EVF's. Don't have one and not headed in that direction either but...this is good info to file away for the future.

10-09-2014, 06:58 AM	#7
JinDesu Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2011 Location: New York City Photos: Gallery Posts: 5,638	OP is saying that he got nauseous from specifically the A7's EVF - so if that's supposed to be a really good EVF, then there likely isn't an EVF that will keep him from getting that sea-sick feeling.

10-09-2014, 07:18 AM - 1 Like	#8
pete-tarmigan Veteran Member Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Conception Bay South, New-fun-land Photos: Gallery Posts: 1,272	Originally posted by discharged Now a while back I decided that I wanted to take full advantage of my many old lenses and I felt a need for better ISO handling so I decided that a full-frame was the logical next step. I went to the local store to get a feel for the Sony A7 and more specifically the A7S. After using the EVF for about 30 seconds I thought I was going to puke, literally. I have no tendencies what so ever for car sickness or sea sickness so I don't know why I have such problems watching an EVF. Am I alone or are there more people with the same problems? Is sonys implementation worse than what others have? In the news a few years back it was reported that users of 3-D virtual reality gear often suffered motion sickness. The problem was traced to an imperceptible lag between the user's physical motions and the resulting change in the visual image. The software programmers, greedy for more hardware resources to make the graphics more impressive, maxed out their use of the computer hardware as much as possible without creating a perceptible lag. Unfortunately, other parts of the brain were freaked out by the lack of synchrony between physical and visual sensory input and made the users sick. In other words, I'm not surprised that EVFs give some people motion sickness.

10-09-2014, 07:21 AM	#9
phoned Junior Member Join Date: Sep 2014 Posts: 40	I get sick playing video games so I suspect using an EVF will be much the same.

10-09-2014, 07:40 AM	#11
discharged Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2014 Location: viking country Photos: Albums Posts: 276 Original Poster	It is hard to tell what specifically gave me the nauseous feeling but the things that I noticed was 1. changes in brightness, 2. some sort of flicker when i focused on different things, 3. motion lag What I know about myself: 1. I am unable to watch most DLP projectors because "all I see" is the rainbow effect. - not nauseous but it is very irritating. 2. I don't have perfect vision but don't wear glasses. I'm going to the local store again in a few days to get a new ballhead and I can have another go at the camera at that time to see if I can pinpoint the cause any closer.

10-09-2014, 12:41 PM	#12
6BQ5 Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2013 Location: Nevada, USA Photos: Albums Posts: 3,348	Could you have gotten the motion sickness because your body felt one thing but your eyes saw another? If the image was such that the projection covered 180 degrees of your view then you had no reference for your eyes of boundaries. There was no border? I don't know ... I'm just grasping at straws here based on my experience with an IMAX movie. The screen was a dome that completely covered my field of vision. Looking straight ahead I didn't see anything but the movie. When the image panned or tilted I had a weird motion sickness feeling. It wasnt bad. It was just that I felt the world moving/shifting/tilting around me but I was perfectly still.

10-09-2014, 12:55 PM	#13
JinDesu Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2011 Location: New York City Photos: Gallery Posts: 5,638	Originally posted by 6BQ5 Could you have gotten the motion sickness because your body felt one thing but your eyes saw another? If the image was such that the projection covered 180 degrees of your view then you had no reference for your eyes of boundaries. There was no border? I don't know ... I'm just grasping at straws here based on my experience with an IMAX movie. The screen was a dome that completely covered my field of vision. Looking straight ahead I didn't see anything but the movie. When the image panned or tilted I had a weird motion sickness feeling. It wasnt bad. It was just that I felt the world moving/shifting/tilting around me but I was perfectly still. Different people suffer from different things with regards to EVF. Sometimes it's the refresh rate - if the refresh rate is slow enough where the human eye can distinguish frame changes (especially when panning), it can be disorienting. Otherwise it can also be the fact that the image is stabilized - similar to when looking through an OVF with an optically stabilized lens. Also, it can be the intensity of light/contrast of the EVF, where the image just doesn't look like real life and the mind cannot reconcile it.

10-26-2014, 04:43 PM	#14
Lowell Goudge Site Supporter Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Toronto Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 17,891	It's funny, I used an EVF in my old Kodak5MP bridge camera for years. Never had an issue. I use a.V5 viewfinder loud on the Q for eye level viewing no issues there either.

10-26-2014, 05:50 PM	#15
Tony Belding Site Supporter Join Date: Mar 2013 Location: Hamilton, Texas Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 787	The viewfinder on my Olympus E-M5 has been very good, and I've heard the ones on their newer cameras are further improved. I've never felt anything like motion sickness from it -- but I'm not usually prone to motion sickness anyhow. It's different from an OVF, but I find the EVF has its own benefits in terms of showing a live view closer to the image the camera will record, with current settings applied.