Forgot Password
Pentax Camera Forums Home
 

Reply
Show Printable Version Search this Thread
08-10-2015, 09:17 AM   #46
Senior Member
Mothballs's Avatar

Join Date: May 2015
Posts: 259
QuoteOriginally posted by philbaum Quote
Which specific camera and model are you talking about? I've never seen EVF stutter or much latency to speak of. Seems like so many complaints about EVFs are from folks that don't seem to have tried a modern version. Afterall, the Liveview monitor is a type of EVF and noone complains about them on DSLRs. I've never seen complaints about latency or EVF stutter on a Sony mirrorless forum.
Lets see.
K-50 in live view stutters. Fuji xt-1 stutters. Pentax q REALLY stutters badly. The Olympus OM-D system i tried stuttered. Never dealt with Sony, so no opinion there.

Its less noticeable with a 50mm, but you get any decent telephoto on there and good luck.

Basically, in live view or through a EVF you get 'rolling shutter' in real-time, so any motion you make can shear the image and make it stutter. This is, by the way, infuriating when taking pictures of, say, a bird in flight. Just because the birds in the frame at the top of the finder doesn't Mean it will be when you snap that image: movement of the bird and you tracking add to make judgement difficult.

As well, on most models you end up with a lag between shots that can just ruin your tracking

08-11-2015, 01:40 PM   #47
Pentaxian
philbaum's Avatar

Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Port Townsend, Washington State, USA
Posts: 3,659
QuoteOriginally posted by Mothballs Quote
Lets see.
K-50 in live view stutters. Fuji xt-1 stutters. Pentax q REALLY stutters badly. The Olympus OM-D system i tried stuttered. Never dealt with Sony, so no opinion there.

Its less noticeable with a 50mm, but you get any decent telephoto on there and good luck.

Basically, in live view or through a EVF you get 'rolling shutter' in real-time, so any motion you make can shear the image and make it stutter. This is, by the way, infuriating when taking pictures of, say, a bird in flight. Just because the birds in the frame at the top of the finder doesn't Mean it will be when you snap that image: movement of the bird and you tracking add to make judgement difficult.

As well, on most models you end up with a lag between shots that can just ruin your tracking
Thanks for the reply, i don't have any of those cameras so can't duplicate. I tried Liveview on My k3 - panning it quickly. When i stopped suddenly in a darker area of the scene, I could see the post on a railing in one place, then in 1 or 2 seconds it would snap into another place. I don't know if you would call that stuttering or latency.

I tried it on my Nex6. To avoid confusion, i set my camera in MF to avoid the refocusing after i stopped. Did the horizontal panning. I could see no snapping of the image after i suddenly stopped with the Sony, in either the LCD monitor or in the EVF. In either the K3 or Sony Nex6, there was no stuttering i could see during the panning. There was a bit of blurring in the image, and that would go away as soon as i stopped. I don't know if that blurring is what you would consider stuttering or latency.

I know the K5 used to recommend that Liveview be used on a tripod in the manual. Don't know if its still there in the K3 - perhaps they realized that their frame rate was underspec for clear image.

I'm sure there has been a lot of testing of what frame rates the human visual system needs in order to see a clear image and not bothered by flickering. It could be, i'm guessing, that cameras are hampered by the limited battery power available or the available chips.

One question. If you hold your camera still - like on a tripod, do you still see stuttering/latency when a bird flys by???
08-11-2015, 02:01 PM   #48
Loyal Site Supporter
clackers's Avatar

Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Melbourne
Photos: Albums
Posts: 8,088
QuoteOriginally posted by philbaum Quote
There was a bit of blurring in the image, and that would go away as soon as i stopped. I don't know if that blurring is what you would consider stuttering or latency.
I think if you pressed the shutter it wouldn't get the picture you thought you were going to get, Phil.

The best ones are still TV cameras, they're 'near realtime', and the refresh rate will be worse as the light gets low.

My A7 has a setting in the menus to delay audio recording by the EVF latency so that they don't drop out of sync.

Not a problem with OVFs at all.
08-11-2015, 02:33 PM   #49
Pentaxian
philbaum's Avatar

Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Port Townsend, Washington State, USA
Posts: 3,659
QuoteOriginally posted by clackers Quote
I think if you pressed the shutter it wouldn't get the picture you thought you were going to get, Phil.

The best ones are still TV cameras, they're 'near realtime', and the refresh rate will be worse as the light gets low.

My A7 has a setting in the menus to delay audio recording by the EVF latency so that they don't drop out of sync.

Not a problem with OVFs at all.
Thanks for the interesting discusion - i also didn't know you had dipped your toe in the "dark" waters of mirrorless :-)

Okay, so i tried it. Manually focused the Nex6. Set the shutter at 1/1000s, 400iso, f4 or so. Panned the camera past some trees and shot midway thru the panning. Even though the EVF showed a bit of blur of the trees i was panning past, the replay of the shot image was relatively sharp with no evidence of the blurring i saw thru the EVF and no evidence of stuttering. So its a case that the EVF is not keeping up with the panning action to make it sharp, but that didn't hamper a fast shutter in freezing the action image.

Even though the image in the panning above had some small blurring, the image was good enough to allow me to frame the image to where i wanted it. An OVF would not have had the slight blurring of course.

I was recently asked to take a picture of this actor running and jumping in the air for a promo shot. Set the K3 on High continuous shooting, panned the camera with the guy running and held the shutter down. Even with an optical system, you're not seeing each frame as it goes by, 8.6fps, but just roughly framing the subject. 1/250s. So i don't know that EVF is that much worse with a little blurring.

[IMG][/IMG]

08-11-2015, 11:18 PM   #50
Loyal Site Supporter
clackers's Avatar

Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Melbourne
Photos: Albums
Posts: 8,088
QuoteOriginally posted by philbaum Quote
Thanks for the interesting discusion - i also didn't know you had dipped your toe in the "dark" waters of mirrorless :-)

Oh, sure, Phil, I probably own more MILCs than you.

A7, NEX-7, NEX-3N, Samsung Mini NX.





Sony 10-18 on NEX-7:





Sony 10-18 on A7:






Pentax D FA 50mm Macro on A7:





QuoteOriginally posted by philbaum Quote

I was recently asked to take a picture of this actor running and jumping in the air for a promo shot.
You wisely chose the K-3 to do this with, Phil. I'll swap my NEX-7 for it, if you like its EVF so much!

When you press the shutter button at the decisive moment, the EVF lags, and it's already in the past.

How bad can it get?

Check out the 5D MkIII vs A7 battle of the viewfinders ...


Last edited by clackers; 08-12-2015 at 05:26 AM.
08-12-2015, 08:18 AM   #51
Pentaxian
philbaum's Avatar

Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Port Townsend, Washington State, USA
Posts: 3,659
QuoteOriginally posted by clackers Quote
Oh, sure, Phil, I probably own more MILCs than you.

A7, NEX-7, NEX-3N, Samsung Mini NX.

Sony 10-18 on NEX-7:

Sony 10-18 on A7:

Pentax D FA 50mm Macro on A7:

You wisely chose the K-3 to do this with, Phil. I'll swap my NEX-7 for it, if you like its EVF so much!

When you press the shutter button at the decisive moment, the EVF lags, and it's already in the past.

How bad can it get?

Check out the 5D MkIII vs A7 battle of the viewfinders ...

Sony a7 vs Canon 5D Mk III - Mirrorless or DSLR? - YouTube
Nice images, that 10-18 really works well, both on the Nex and the A7.

Your points are well made. My plan has been to keep the K3 and the 17-70 F4 zoom I have for it - they have always worked well for the theatre stuff. The high jump photo would actually have been better taken on a mirrorless. I prefocused the location of the jump and set my camera to Continuous, hi - burst rate. Started the shutter burst and panned when he started running, got one of the jump low down, the peak of the jump i showed above and one more on the way down. What i'm trying to say is that the 8.6 burst rate of the K3 would be better if it was a higher rate. The Nex7 probably has a 10 or 11 fps burst rate which would have been better, IMO. Not sure what the rates are for your other MILC. The A7 has a paltry 5 fps, which is true of several FF DSLRs as well. APS rules in this case. Your A7 did a nice job here.

Oh yeah, thanks for the funny review link.
Reply

Bookmarks
  • Submit Thread to Facebook Facebook
  • Submit Thread to Twitter Twitter
  • Submit Thread to Digg Digg
Tags - Make this thread easier to find by adding keywords to it!
35mm, camera, digital camera, evfs, lcds, lenses, lot, mirrorless, pentax, slr, sony
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
mirrorless lens mounts Tony Belding Pentax Mirrorless Cameras 31 02-04-2014 11:22 PM
Why mirrorless? jon404 Pentax Mirrorless Cameras 32 12-04-2013 01:18 PM
mirrorless vs dslr hansangpyo Troubleshooting and Beginner Help 13 08-23-2013 11:33 AM
Mirrorless Party top-quark Photographic Industry and Professionals 4 05-11-2013 08:59 AM
Pentax mirrorless FF? Bestzoom Pentax Full Frame 102 05-05-2013 02:38 PM



All times are GMT -7. The time now is 12:09 PM. | See also: NikonForums.com, CanonForums.com part of our network of photo forums!
  • Red (Default)
  • Green
  • Gray
  • Dark
  • Dark Yellow
  • Dark Blue
  • Old Red
  • Old Green
  • Old Gray
  • Dial-Up Style
Hello! It's great to see you back on the forum! Have you considered joining the community?
register
Creating a FREE ACCOUNT takes under a minute, removes ads, and lets you post! [Dismiss]
Top