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06-24-2015, 04:00 PM   #31
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QuoteOriginally posted by reh321 Quote
I remain absolutely convinced that the lack of an EVF is what doomed the K-01 (and it shares that trait with the also less-than-successful Canon EOS-M). but that may just be me.
I don't think the lack of an EVF doomed the K-01 but it certainly didn't help. The u4/3 world has many ILC bodies with and without EVFs. Same goes for Fuji and Sony. They don't seem to be suffering. I think there were many other design elements that hurt the K-01 such as unconventional ergonomics and form factor.

06-24-2015, 04:26 PM   #32
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It was a perfect storm - no EVF, no tilt/flip LCD, unconventional looks and ergos, large size compared to comparable MILCs, poor video compared to competition, too high a launch price, marketing didn't know what to do with it (even more than usual), and gosh-awful autofocus (at least until FW 1.01 came out seven months later). I just don't think any one of these could have changed it from flop to success.

And then there's the absolute Pentax-dooming worst of all: the rubber flappy door (which is still working fine on all of my K-01s, by the way).
06-24-2015, 06:48 PM   #33
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QuoteOriginally posted by THoog Quote
You are correct - the K-01 remains the ONLY legacy SLR/DSLR-mount mirrorless camera by any maker. It was also a sales flop, with size being one of the biggest criticisms, repeated again and again. Your point is valid, but the market said otherwise - loudly.

I have also noted that MILCs are creeping up in size towards DSLRs. The shorter registration distance on the new mounts also means that a body with the same dimensions can have additional electronics in the space that a legacy-mount body is forced to leave empty, meaning more features in a comparable package. It's hard for a legacy-mount MILC to be competitive.
I think it was Wayne Gretzky who said that in hockey, you skate to where the puck is going, not to where it's been. Sony and Olympus have been moving the puck (mirrorless) and scoring goals; Canon, Nikon and Pentax are down at the other end of the ice, hoping that the puck will come back. Good luck with that.

Like the rest of you, I've read the interviews with Pentax management, and their statements that they have addressed the mirrorless segment because they have the Q. Apologies to Q fans (I know you love your cameras), but unless the laws of physics change, and photons and electrons start behaving differently in small spaces, a small sensor camera will always be a small sensor camera. The Q is a successful niche product, and a good one, but it is not stealing market share from people who need the image quality offered by MFT bodies or even bigger sensors from Sony.

I know that the K mount has some disadvantages (e.g., lack of space inside the body), but Pentax made it work with the K-01. With that camera, they were 80% of the way there. Pentax can re-purpose hardware and firmware that have been improved in other bodies in the last couple years, and can license an EVF from one of the existing vendors (like they already do with Sony sensors). With what seems like very little extra effort, building on what has already been done with the K-01, Pentax could produce a K-02 that could compete with Sony and Olympus. With APS-C, it would have a bigger sensor than Olympus, and it would be compatible with, I don't know, ten times as many lenses? I am not a marketing expert, but these seem like marketing advantages to me.
06-24-2015, 07:17 PM   #34
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@BearCreek - I agree. Imagine if Ricoh/Pentax added an EVF and a decent grip to the K-01. It could have the start of a new K-3. The K-3 II and the upcoming FF body could have been the next steps in that evolution with even better EVFs and better on-sensor PDAF. It would be a K-mount version of the A7 series. I have a feeling that Sony and Ricoh signed an agreement outlining some sort of "do not compete" structure. Sony will provide Ricoh sensors as long as the cameras are in different segments than Sony's. This kind of puts Ricoh in the mirrored OVF segment while Sony will pursue the mirrorless EVF segment.

06-24-2015, 07:51 PM   #35
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QuoteOriginally posted by 6BQ5 Quote
@BearCreek - I agree. Imagine if Ricoh/Pentax added an EVF and a decent grip to the K-01. It could have the start of a new K-3. The K-3 II and the upcoming FF body could have been the next steps in that evolution with even better EVFs and better on-sensor PDAF. It would be a K-mount version of the A7 series. I have a feeling that Sony and Ricoh signed an agreement outlining some sort of "do not compete" structure. Sony will provide Ricoh sensors as long as the cameras are in different segments than Sony's. This kind of puts Ricoh in the mirrored OVF segment while Sony will pursue the mirrorless EVF segment.
What are you thinking of in terms of a grip? Comparing my K-30 to my older Super Program, it seems that the modern cameras are so much larger, specifically in the grip area, even though a film cassette took up a fair amount of area. I'm not sure how much area is needed for an SR sensor, but if they rearranged the innards of the camera, perhaps a K-02 wouldn't need to be much larger than my Super Program sans mirror-box?
06-25-2015, 12:04 AM   #36
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Just put a nice ff sensor inside the k-01 and call it.....


The k-s1 should have been mirrorless from the start. Small design and with no mirror just a little thinner as is the k-01.
06-25-2015, 12:18 AM   #37
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After going from the K-01 to a K-3II (with grip too) when I pick up the K-01 I forget how relatively small and light it is/was compared to the D-SLR's with the same mount.

If it had a better re-designed grip, it would have been better, that was my only complaint really. It was great with Manual Lenses with Focus Peaking/Green Button Stop Down Metering.

I actually quite like the overall appearance, the larger size compared to other mirror-less was turned to an advantage with the wide availability of glass, and small/compact with the DA Limiteds.


06-25-2015, 02:31 AM   #38
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K-02 -- give it a full frame sensor!

06-25-2015, 05:05 AM   #39
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QuoteOriginally posted by hoopsontoast Quote
After going from the K-01 to a K-3II (with grip too) when I pick up the K-01 I forget how relatively small and light it is/was compared to the D-SLR's with the same mount.
If it had a better re-designed grip, it would have been better, that was my only complaint really. It was great with Manual Lenses with Focus Peaking/Green Button Stop Down Metering.
I actually quite like the overall appearance, the larger size compared to other mirror-less was turned to an advantage with the wide availability of glass, and small/compact with the DA Limiteds.
I still don't understand this grip business. Before Canon came out with the heat-trapping T-90, we held a camera with two hands, supporting it with the left hand while operating it with the right hand, and a minimal grip was more than enough. However, once you make the camera deep enough to provide a K-mount, I guess they could make a deeper grip to double as the battery compartment or they could go back to something that looks more like the rangefinder cameras with the look that so many claim to miss.
06-25-2015, 07:26 AM   #40
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If they could decrease the thickness to something similar to a film SLR yet retain the K-mount I am all for it. My K-01 gets used almost as much as my K-3
06-25-2015, 09:43 AM   #41
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QuoteOriginally posted by RonHendriks1966 Quote
Just put a nice ff sensor inside the k-01 and call it.....
QuoteOriginally posted by humaniform Quote
K-02 -- give it a full frame sensor!
Eh, then it wouldn't work so well with the lovely DA Ltd primes, which are the perfect match for a small mirrorless K-mount camera.
06-25-2015, 10:43 AM   #42
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QuoteOriginally posted by luftfluss Quote
Eh, then it wouldn't work so well with the lovely DA Ltd primes, which are the perfect match for a small mirrorless K-mount camera.
Since the mount doesn't differ, I'm sure any Pentax implementation of FF will allow a crop mode. You'd still have your DA ltd primes. And the 40mm XS (which mostly resides on my K-01).
06-25-2015, 01:21 PM   #43
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I think the K-02 would be great if it had a 20 or 24 megapixel BSI (Backside Illuminated Sensor, APS-C) with improved focusing better flash rate (at least 1/200 of a second). It needs more auto focus points (the K-01 has 79) that are faster and accurate and 14 bit raw files. I am fine with the size and weight of the K-01, I just want better features in it. Sony already has a BSI Full Frame chip and I'll bet they are working on an APS-C one for the Alpha A6000 replacement camera.
06-25-2015, 01:45 PM   #44
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QuoteOriginally posted by humaniform Quote
Since the mount doesn't differ, I'm sure any Pentax implementation of FF will allow a crop mode. You'd still have your DA ltd primes. And the 40mm XS (which mostly resides on my K-01).
That will also dramatically increase the cost of the K-02. Not just because of the sensor size itself, but also that the K-02 will have to share parts with the FF Pentax.
07-22-2015, 08:28 PM - 1 Like   #45
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QuoteOriginally posted by BearCreek Quote
Apologies to Q fans (I know you love your cameras), but unless the laws of physics change, and photons and electrons start behaving differently in small spaces, a small sensor camera will always be a small sensor camera.
No, that's not the way it works.
When Leicas first appeared, they were "small sensor cameras". Now, they're "full frame"!
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