Forgot Password
Pentax Camera Forums Home
 

Reply
Show Printable Version Search this Thread
12-31-2015, 12:51 PM   #1
Site Supporter
Ric's Avatar

Join Date: Dec 2011
Posts: 128
FF versus mirrorless

I am another one with great expectations for the new FF coming out in the spring (or thereabouts). I presently have a K-5 and all my lenses are FF compatible except for one. Even though we welcome this new addition from pentax it seems that a FF mirrorless is the wave of the future. So why not stick with a perfectly good APS-C and wait for pentax to come out with the FF mirrorless. Obviously we don't know if or even when that may happen but thought I'd throw out there what is going through my mind to get your input. Forgive me if this seems too speculative as I don't mean to start another one of those threads, but just a point for the sake of discussion and the pros and cons of pulling the trigger on a full frame DSLR or waiting for a mirrorless FF. Thanks.

12-31-2015, 12:58 PM - 1 Like   #2
Site Supporter
enoeske's Avatar

Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Surprise, Az
Photos: Gallery
Posts: 1,925
QuoteOriginally posted by Ric Quote
I am another one with great expectations for the new FF coming out in the spring (or thereabouts). I presently have a K-5 and all my lenses are FF compatible except for one. Even though we welcome this new addition from pentax it seems that a FF mirrorless is the wave of the future. So why not stick with a perfectly good APS-C and wait for pentax to come out with the FF mirrorless. Obviously we don't know if or even when that may happen but thought I'd throw out there what is going through my mind to get your input. Forgive me if this seems too speculative as I don't mean to start another one of those threads, but just a point for the sake of discussion and the pros and cons of pulling the trigger on a full frame DSLR or waiting for a mirrorless FF. Thanks.
The main benefit of mirrorless is the smaller size of the body. However, to keep using pentax k-mount lenses, you have to keep the k-mount and retain its registration distance. So, you won't get any smaller of a body. Or, lose the k-mount compatibility and create a whole new lens lineup in a new mount just to get that smaller body. Why? No idea. I'm perfectly fine with the size of the K-3 and hopefully they can create a FF camera around that size. I've got no problem with a slightly larger body as well. Just keep those perfect ergonomics and great handling.
12-31-2015, 01:05 PM   #3
Loyal Site Supporter




Join Date: Mar 2015
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 5,805
QuoteOriginally posted by Ric Quote
it seems that a FF mirrorless is the wave of the future.
"Seems" is the operative word here. The biggest plus in my eyes is the ability, for those makers who see fit to allow for it, of using others' lenses on your camera (hello, LBA).

QuoteOriginally posted by Ric Quote
So why not stick with a perfectly good APS-C and wait for pentax to come out with the FF mirrorless.
Because that may never happen, and if it does there isn't even the hint of a timeline for it. Pentax's APS-C mirrorless (the K-01) wasn't exactly a barn-burner; Ricoh Imaging may be once-bitten, twice shy on that one. I think you're likely to see at least two full-frame DSLR bodies (high end or low end or FF and FF Mark II) before you see a mirrorless FF with Pentax on it.

One of the reasons I'm not keen on mirrorless is that in order to see exactly what you're going to get, the sensor must always be "hot" and the EVF or the screen back always active, which eats batteries. There's no quiet mode, where you can just zoom, compose/prefocus and wait at leisure, then wake the camera up with half a shutter press before taking the shot. Better power storage and more economical (and faster-responding) EVFs might fix that problem, which would be good from my perspective because I wouldn't at all mind a retro-style full-frame DSLR in a Pentax MX-sized body, possibly even with Pentax MX-style control knobs and a decrippled K mount for working with film-era aperture rings.
12-31-2015, 01:46 PM   #4
Pentaxian




Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: New Jersey
Posts: 885
QuoteOriginally posted by Ric Quote
I am another one with great expectations for the new FF coming out in the spring (or thereabouts). I presently have a K-5 and all my lenses are FF compatible except for one. Even though we welcome this new addition from pentax it seems that a FF mirrorless is the wave of the future. So why not stick with a perfectly good APS-C and wait for pentax to come out with the FF mirrorless. Obviously we don't know if or even when that may happen but thought I'd throw out there what is going through my mind to get your input. Forgive me if this seems too speculative as I don't mean to start another one of those threads, but just a point for the sake of discussion and the pros and cons of pulling the trigger on a full frame DSLR or waiting for a mirrorless FF. Thanks.
I do not buy the idea that mirrorless is the future. No one can predict exactly what the future trend is . remembering OVF+ Mirror+ mirrorless functions = DSLR. All the techinical advances in mirrorless side can also apply to DSLR. So DSLR always delivers more functionalities than mirrorless.

Moreover, for mirrorless FF, it is not fun when people gets a 300g body and hold a 1000g lens.. For those people who like compact and lightweight, new generation of cell phone camera might be a much better solution... For example, it is not impossible for a cell phone to employ mutlpile sensors+ lenses in front so it can get super-resolution photos and 3D photos automatically.


Last edited by starjedi; 12-31-2015 at 01:54 PM.
12-31-2015, 01:48 PM   #5
Site Supporter
jatrax's Avatar

Join Date: May 2010
Location: Oregon
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 10,771
QuoteOriginally posted by Ric Quote
it seems that a FF mirrorless is the wave of the future.
That is highly debatable, and has been debated endlessly here and elsewhere. If you want mirrorless there are good choices out there. Waiting for Pentax to make one is not one of those choices. I think you will be waiting a very long time before you see a mirrorless from Pentax except for the Q.

Personally I would be interested in a mirrorless k-mount. Or a mirrorless body that came with a fully functional k-mount adapter. But I really doubt we will see that, at least for some years.
12-31-2015, 01:48 PM - 1 Like   #6
HYS
Veteran Member




Join Date: Mar 2013
Photos: Gallery
Posts: 306
QuoteOriginally posted by enoeske Quote
The main benefit of mirrorless is the smaller size of the body. ....
Well but not only. No mirror movement, no vibrations.
12-31-2015, 01:50 PM - 1 Like   #7
Veteran Member
blende8's Avatar

Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Bremen, Germany
Photos: Albums
Posts: 1,484
For me the advantage of mirrorless is the EVF.
This is a very useful tool for manual focus.
Focussing through an OVF will seldom give you optimum results in sharpness.
12-31-2015, 02:00 PM   #8
Site Supporter
enoeske's Avatar

Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Surprise, Az
Photos: Gallery
Posts: 1,925
QuoteOriginally posted by HYS Quote
Well but not only. No mirror movement, no vibrations.
I didn't say "only". And are vibrations really that big of an issue? Granted, most of my shots are hand held. But I don't see many of my photos messed up because of mirror vibration.

12-31-2015, 02:09 PM   #9
Pentaxian




Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Eureka, CA
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 1,980
QuoteOriginally posted by starjedi Quote
Moreover, for mirrorless FF, it is not fun when people gets a 300g body and hold a 1000g lens.
This is my principle reason for not being very bullish on mirrorless FF. And it's also why I suspect that, when Ricoh/Pentax does finally get around to coming out with a large sensor mirrorless camera (it ain't happening any time soon), it will be APS-C, both for reasons of cost and to keep the lens sizes down. If Pentax were to produce a compact weather sealed APS-C mirrorless with 5-axis IBIS (along with some high quality compact weather-sealed zooms), that would definitely picque my interest. But another FF mirrorless system with over-sized zooms? Not sure I get that.
12-31-2015, 02:10 PM   #10
Senior Member




Join Date: May 2013
Posts: 198
QuoteOriginally posted by blende8 Quote
For me the advantage of mirrorless is the EVF.
This is a very useful tool for manual focus.
Focussing through an OVF will seldom give you optimum results in sharpness.
But you can manually focus with live view if you need to. I think that works well with focus peaking.
12-31-2015, 02:16 PM   #11
Veteran Member
blende8's Avatar

Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Bremen, Germany
Photos: Albums
Posts: 1,484
Yes, it works, but I don't like it, not ergonomic, you cannot hold the camera steady.
12-31-2015, 02:27 PM   #12
Pentaxian




Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: South Bend, IN, USA
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 2,983
QuoteOriginally posted by starjedi Quote
Moreover, for mirrorless FF, it is not fun when people gets a 300g body and hold a 1000g lens.
As I have said in many different settings, for that reason "event" photography (athletics, weddings, ...) will be the last users of DSLR techonology
QuoteOriginally posted by starjedi Quote
For those people who like compact and lightweight, new generation of cell phone camera might be a much better solution... For example, it is not impossible for a cell phone to employ mutlpile sensors+ lenses in front so it can get super-resolution photos and 3D photos automatically.
Nine days ago my family went to a concert. I took my Q-7, and virtually all the pictures I took were at "35mm equivalence" of 150mm - 200mm. The primary goal of cell phone manufacturers in recent years has been to have a fairly thin body; I have a hard time believing that they can optically provide reasonable pictures like that, because it would require either a really tiny sensor (and the resulting IQ issues) or an unacceptably long lens.
12-31-2015, 02:44 PM   #13
Pentaxian




Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: New Jersey
Posts: 885
QuoteOriginally posted by reh321 Quote
As I have said in many different settings, for that reason "event" photography (athletics, weddings, ...) will be the last users of DSLR techonology
Nine days ago my family went to a concert. I took my Q-7, and virtually all the pictures I took were at "35mm equivalence" of 150mm - 200mm. The primary goal of cell phone manufacturers in recent years has been to have a fairly thin body; I have a hard time believing that they can optically provide reasonable pictures like that, because it would require either a really tiny sensor (and the resulting IQ issues) or an unacceptably long lens.
Do not underestimate the power of technology innovation. Eagle's eye has the similar size of human's eye but it's eyesight is 4-8 times better than human. It is a biological answer to your question that a tiny sensor with advanced technology can do.. :-)
12-31-2015, 04:42 PM   #14
Pentaxian




Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: South Bend, IN, USA
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 2,983
QuoteOriginally posted by starjedi Quote
Do not underestimate the power of technology innovation. Eagle's eye has the similar size of human's eye but it's eyesight is 4-8 times better than human. It is a biological answer to your question that a tiny sensor with advanced technology can do.. :-)
So maybe someday a cell phone like device will replace all cameras. But not just MILC. And not anytime soon.
12-31-2015, 04:59 PM   #15
osv
Pentaxian




Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: So Cal
Photos: Gallery
Posts: 2,080
QuoteOriginally posted by Kenntak Quote
But you can manually focus with live view if you need to. I think that works well with focus peaking.
it's definitely more accurate than using an ovf, but live view on a dslr usually requires mirror-up mode? there are limitations to using that... canon re-designed the 5ds series mirror assembly, to give less vibration, but sony implemented efcs on the a7rii, good up to 1/1000th, which means zero mirror vibration(of course) and zero shutter vibration.

there is still a momentary lapse in the evf right after the shutter is triggered, but that won't be an issue in a couple of more years... for now dslrs are better in that respect, if you want high fps, it's still a dslr world.

anyone looking at mirrorless might want to test drive the evf first... i bought the a7r sight unseen, love the evf, but a few people have complained that the evf makes 'em seasick or whatever.
Reply

Bookmarks
  • Submit Thread to Facebook Facebook
  • Submit Thread to Twitter Twitter
  • Submit Thread to Digg Digg
Tags - Make this thread easier to find by adding keywords to it!
digital camera, ff, mirrorless, mirrorless full frame, pentax
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
What if the new FF camera is mirrorless? AtitG Pentax Full Frame 45 10-17-2015 06:47 AM
Pentax FF setup versus APSC budget biz-engineer Pentax Full Frame 90 10-02-2015 10:48 AM
Fastest Mirrorless AF versus D4s - surprise!!! philbaum Non-Pentax Cameras: Canon, Nikon, etc. 36 05-30-2014 03:47 PM
Pentax mirrorless FF? Bestzoom Pentax Full Frame 102 05-05-2013 02:38 PM
Canon FF Mirrorless concept Clarkey Non-Pentax Cameras: Canon, Nikon, etc. 9 03-27-2012 03:05 AM



All times are GMT -7. The time now is 09:37 AM. | See also: NikonForums.com, CanonForums.com part of our network of photo forums!
  • Red (Default)
  • Green
  • Gray
  • Dark
  • Dark Yellow
  • Dark Blue
  • Old Red
  • Old Green
  • Old Gray
  • Dial-Up Style
Hello! It's great to see you back on the forum! Have you considered joining the community?
register
Creating a FREE ACCOUNT takes under a minute, removes ads, and lets you post! [Dismiss]
Top