New MILC coming??

pentaxian_tmb · 10-12-2016, 09:22 AM

I would go for a ricoh gr with an interchangeable lens

**MJSfoto1956** · 10-12-2016, 09:33 AM

Originally posted by Tony Belding

The mirrorless camera would be able to use new M-mount lenses natively, new K-mount lenses with a simple adapter

+1 on using custom M mount for Pentax mirrorless.

M

lotech · 10-13-2016, 12:40 AM

Is that the K01 the only mirrorless with sensor protection ? I don't like mirrorless for two reasons, one is without sensor protection, I've seen in shop demo unit with finger print on the sensor, let alone what would happen when changing lens in the open. The other thing I don't like is the EVF, only recently I find some camera with usable EVF, early model has problem with direct bright light and lagging, a good EVF indeed helps in shooting under low light that too dim for optical finder.

I would consider the mirrorless if Pentax release one that good looking, better handling and rugged as the K3, not necessary direct compatible with current line of lenses but came with adapter for that, plus few compatible lenses for the new mount would be enough.

Kiwi645hauler · 10-13-2016, 02:28 AM

Originally posted by lotech

Is that the K01 the only mirrorless with sensor protection ? I don't like mirrorless for two reasons, one is without sensor protection, I've seen in shop demo unit with finger print on the sensor, let alone what would happen when changing lens in the open. The other thing I don't like is the EVF, only recently I find some camera with usable EVF, early model has problem with direct bright light and lagging, a good EVF indeed helps in shooting under low light that too dim for optical finder.

I would consider the mirrorless if Pentax release one that good looking, better handling and rugged as the K3, not necessary direct compatible with current line of lenses but came with adapter for that, plus few compatible lenses for the new mount would be enough.

Lack of Sensor protection is one of the stupidest things to worry about, if you have seen a sensor in a store with fingerprints thats not a store that obviously cares about product and doesn't check the product..
EVF's have been pretty damn good for 3-4 years now, and are not something to worry about at all. My Oly E-M1 has a fantastic EVF i use outside in the bright light all the time with no problems.
Changing lenses, i take the same care as i did with SLR/DSLR cameras, and that was basically prep to change lenses by making sure the back cap of the new lens is unlocked, then change lenses.
The K-01 didnt have a 'protected' sensor, it was just because the standard Pentax Mirror box was between the lens mount and the sensor, so the sensor was deeper in the camera.

**Tony Belding** · 10-13-2016, 04:08 AM

Originally posted by lotech

Is that the K01 the only mirrorless with sensor protection ? I don't like mirrorless for two reasons, one is without sensor protection, I've seen in shop demo unit with finger print on the sensor, let alone what would happen when changing lens in the open.

Not sure exactly what form of "sensor protection" you are asking for here? I've been through multiple mirrorless cameras here, of different brands and different sensor sizes, and I've found keeping the sensor clean hasn't been any bigger problem than it was with my DSLRs. The only notable incident was when I changed lenses on my Q7 and accidentally poked the sensor with a fingertip. I ended up very carefully removing the fingerprint with a mini lens pen, and no damage was noted. I've been more careful since then!

Quote:

The other thing I don't like is the EVF, only recently I find some camera with usable EVF, early model has problem with direct bright light and lagging, a good EVF indeed helps in shooting under low light that too dim for optical finder.

I haven't noticed a lag problem. When out in the bright sun they are not as clear and pleasant as a good optical viewfinder, but I've found I can always make it work. (A wide brimmed hat can help.)

rbelyell · 10-24-2016, 06:10 AM

ya know, theres just no reason to call someones post 'stupid'. thats what i dont like about the internet, because there are no consequences, it emobldens people to speak to others in ways where, if they spoke the same way in person, it might get them a black eye. try addressing people civilly, as not doing so speaks more about you than the person you insult.

lotech · 10-24-2016, 09:11 AM

Originally posted by Kiwi110Auto

Lack of Sensor protection is one of the stupidest things to worry about, if you have seen a sensor in a store with fingerprints thats not a store that obviously cares about product and doesn't check the product..
EVF's have been pretty damn good for 3-4 years now, and are not something to worry about at all. My Oly E-M1 has a fantastic EVF i use outside in the bright light all the time with no problems.
Changing lenses, i take the same care as i did with SLR/DSLR cameras, and that was basically prep to change lenses by making sure the back cap of the new lens is unlocked, then change lenses.
The K-01 didnt have a 'protected' sensor, it was just because the standard Pentax Mirror box was between the lens mount and the sensor, so the sensor was deeper in the camera.

I think it is quite sensible to give the sensor minimum of protection by not exposing it when not in use, wherever there is a focal plane shutter on the camera the hardware for 'sensor protection' already in place, it is all up to the designer to use it or not, it is only a software thing. I've seen at least one other mirrorless has the sensor covered by the shutter when the lens removed, I can't recall it is a Pentax Q or a Lumix or Fuji. The only reason I heard of not to have the sensor covered by the shutter is the live view required on mirrorless, the shutter works in 'reverse action' that must remain opened in standby state, electricity will be drained to keep the shutter closed when the lens removed, or complicated mechanical inter-lock required. Video camera is different, there is no mechanical shutter.

Last edited by lotech; 10-24-2016 at 09:20 AM.

lotech · 10-24-2016, 08:11 PM

Originally posted by Professor Batty

The K-01 does have a shutter protecting the sensor when the camera is off. If you do have the camera turned on when changing lenses you could conceivably get a fingerprint on the sensor, but it would be hard to do. The K-01 shutter does a very good job of keeping dust off the sensor. The Qs do have a very exposed sensor, but the sensor does have some protection from IR glass covering it which is easily cleaned.

Dust is not a problem, depends on how and where you use the camera, sand and sticky fluid is hard to clean and easy to cause damage to the sensor, that's why I am so much worry about missing the 'sensor protection', as changing lens in the open is un-avoidable.

Kiwi645hauler · 10-24-2016, 11:44 PM

Originally posted by lotech

Dust is not a problem, depends on how and where you use the camera, sand and sticky fluid is hard to clean and easy to cause damage to the sensor, that's why I am so much worry about missing the 'sensor protection', as changing lens in the open is un-avoidable.

Ive used Micro 4/3 mirrorless for nearly 3 years now and i constantly change lenses out in the open in dusty windy conditions and had no problems, I carry a sensor cleaning kit with me and when i do a download at the end of a day i always check the last 20-50 frames for dust and do a clean.

reh321 · 10-25-2016, 08:08 AM

Originally posted by lotech

Dust is not a problem, depends on how and where you use the camera, sand and sticky fluid is hard to clean and easy to cause damage to the sensor, that's why I am so much worry about missing the 'sensor protection', as changing lens in the open is un-avoidable.

Part of "unavoidable" is what lenses you use and what pictures you take. Several years ago I bought a Tamron 18-270mm lens so I wouldn't have to change lenses, but I found that I normally knew whether I needed my 18-55 or my 70-300 lens before I ever left my car or home, so I had stopped using that lens within a few months. Of course, someone who insists on using primes will probably change lenses much more often. I have always protected my camera {I usually insist on sitting if at all possible} when changing lenses. I have never detected a spot on the lens of my DSLR; I detected one tiny one-pixel spot on my Q-7 once, but not since I turned on the "clean sensor" option for when I turn it on.

**bobbotron** · 10-25-2016, 10:42 AM

I'd love a K mount mirrorless camera for working with manual focus glass. Size doesn't matter to me, the same size as the K3 is great, if a little smaller that'd be fine too. I've almost bought a K01 a few times for this very reason. A modern update would be great.

surfar · 10-25-2016, 10:57 AM

Originally posted by bobbotron

I've almost bought a K01

Buy one! They are cheap and the images from the old lenses are great.

**Tony Belding** · 10-25-2016, 12:35 PM

Originally posted by bobbotron

I'd love a K mount mirrorless camera for working with manual focus glass. Size doesn't matter to me, the same size as the K3 is great, if a little smaller that'd be fine too. I've almost bought a K01 a few times for this very reason. A modern update would be great.

I had a K-01 for a while. There were a lot of things I liked about it, but. . . Being restricted to composing on the LCD is a significant shortcoming, unless you take a Hoodman loupe everywhere. Also, the focus peaking isn't up to the standard of some other brands.

**bobbotron** · 10-25-2016, 12:54 PM

Originally posted by surfar

Buy one! They are cheap and the images from the old lenses are great.

Every time I think about it, I think my K3 pretty much already does all that in live view mode, and the camera case is... overstocked. :P

reh321 · 10-25-2016, 04:46 PM

Originally posted by bobbotron

Every time I think about it, I think my K3 pretty much already does all that in live view mode, and the camera case is... overstocked. :P

Yeah, but I find using my K-30 {as I had to do today because the light was so dim} is really hard to do. However, I'm guessing that the K-01's LCD wouldn't be much better - I won't buy a camera for this feature until it is delivered via an EVF rather than an LCD.

10-24-2016, 06:10 AM	#51
rbelyell Forum Member Join Date: Mar 2016 Posts: 95	ya know, theres just no reason to call someones post 'stupid'. thats what i dont like about the internet, because there are no consequences, it emobldens people to speak to others in ways where, if they spoke the same way in person, it might get them a black eye. try addressing people civilly, as not doing so speaks more about you than the person you insult. Last edited by rbelyell; 10-24-2016 at 08:46 AM.

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10-12-2016, 09:22 AM	#46
pentaxian_tmb Pentaxian Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: Madison, Wisconsin Posts: 436	I would go for a ricoh gr with an interchangeable lens

10-12-2016, 09:33 AM	#47
MJSfoto1956 Site Supporter Join Date: Dec 2013 Location: Boston Posts: 1,305	Originally posted by Tony Belding The mirrorless camera would be able to use new M-mount lenses natively, new K-mount lenses with a simple adapter +1 on using custom M mount for Pentax mirrorless. M

10-13-2016, 12:40 AM	#48
lotech Pentaxian Join Date: Apr 2012 Posts: 1,312	Is that the K01 the only mirrorless with sensor protection ? I don't like mirrorless for two reasons, one is without sensor protection, I've seen in shop demo unit with finger print on the sensor, let alone what would happen when changing lens in the open. The other thing I don't like is the EVF, only recently I find some camera with usable EVF, early model has problem with direct bright light and lagging, a good EVF indeed helps in shooting under low light that too dim for optical finder. I would consider the mirrorless if Pentax release one that good looking, better handling and rugged as the K3, not necessary direct compatible with current line of lenses but came with adapter for that, plus few compatible lenses for the new mount would be enough.

10-13-2016, 02:28 AM	#49
Kiwi645hauler Veteran Member Join Date: Mar 2016 Location: Dunedin Posts: 394	Originally posted by lotech Is that the K01 the only mirrorless with sensor protection ? I don't like mirrorless for two reasons, one is without sensor protection, I've seen in shop demo unit with finger print on the sensor, let alone what would happen when changing lens in the open. The other thing I don't like is the EVF, only recently I find some camera with usable EVF, early model has problem with direct bright light and lagging, a good EVF indeed helps in shooting under low light that too dim for optical finder. I would consider the mirrorless if Pentax release one that good looking, better handling and rugged as the K3, not necessary direct compatible with current line of lenses but came with adapter for that, plus few compatible lenses for the new mount would be enough. Lack of Sensor protection is one of the stupidest things to worry about, if you have seen a sensor in a store with fingerprints thats not a store that obviously cares about product and doesn't check the product.. EVF's have been pretty damn good for 3-4 years now, and are not something to worry about at all. My Oly E-M1 has a fantastic EVF i use outside in the bright light all the time with no problems. Changing lenses, i take the same care as i did with SLR/DSLR cameras, and that was basically prep to change lenses by making sure the back cap of the new lens is unlocked, then change lenses. The K-01 didnt have a 'protected' sensor, it was just because the standard Pentax Mirror box was between the lens mount and the sensor, so the sensor was deeper in the camera.

10-13-2016, 04:08 AM	#50
Tony Belding Site Supporter Join Date: Mar 2013 Location: Hamilton, Texas Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 778	Originally posted by lotech Is that the K01 the only mirrorless with sensor protection ? I don't like mirrorless for two reasons, one is without sensor protection, I've seen in shop demo unit with finger print on the sensor, let alone what would happen when changing lens in the open. Not sure exactly what form of "sensor protection" you are asking for here? I've been through multiple mirrorless cameras here, of different brands and different sensor sizes, and I've found keeping the sensor clean hasn't been any bigger problem than it was with my DSLRs. The only notable incident was when I changed lenses on my Q7 and accidentally poked the sensor with a fingertip. I ended up very carefully removing the fingerprint with a mini lens pen, and no damage was noted. I've been more careful since then! Quote: The other thing I don't like is the EVF, only recently I find some camera with usable EVF, early model has problem with direct bright light and lagging, a good EVF indeed helps in shooting under low light that too dim for optical finder. I haven't noticed a lag problem. When out in the bright sun they are not as clear and pleasant as a good optical viewfinder, but I've found I can always make it work. (A wide brimmed hat can help.)

10-24-2016, 09:11 AM	#52
lotech Pentaxian Join Date: Apr 2012 Posts: 1,312	Originally posted by Kiwi110Auto Lack of Sensor protection is one of the stupidest things to worry about, if you have seen a sensor in a store with fingerprints thats not a store that obviously cares about product and doesn't check the product.. EVF's have been pretty damn good for 3-4 years now, and are not something to worry about at all. My Oly E-M1 has a fantastic EVF i use outside in the bright light all the time with no problems. Changing lenses, i take the same care as i did with SLR/DSLR cameras, and that was basically prep to change lenses by making sure the back cap of the new lens is unlocked, then change lenses. The K-01 didnt have a 'protected' sensor, it was just because the standard Pentax Mirror box was between the lens mount and the sensor, so the sensor was deeper in the camera. I think it is quite sensible to give the sensor minimum of protection by not exposing it when not in use, wherever there is a focal plane shutter on the camera the hardware for 'sensor protection' already in place, it is all up to the designer to use it or not, it is only a software thing. I've seen at least one other mirrorless has the sensor covered by the shutter when the lens removed, I can't recall it is a Pentax Q or a Lumix or Fuji. The only reason I heard of not to have the sensor covered by the shutter is the live view required on mirrorless, the shutter works in 'reverse action' that must remain opened in standby state, electricity will be drained to keep the shutter closed when the lens removed, or complicated mechanical inter-lock required. Video camera is different, there is no mechanical shutter. Last edited by lotech; 10-24-2016 at 09:20 AM.

10-24-2016, 08:11 PM	#53
lotech Pentaxian Join Date: Apr 2012 Posts: 1,312	Originally posted by Professor Batty The K-01 does have a shutter protecting the sensor when the camera is off. If you do have the camera turned on when changing lenses you could conceivably get a fingerprint on the sensor, but it would be hard to do. The K-01 shutter does a very good job of keeping dust off the sensor. The Qs do have a very exposed sensor, but the sensor does have some protection from IR glass covering it which is easily cleaned. Dust is not a problem, depends on how and where you use the camera, sand and sticky fluid is hard to clean and easy to cause damage to the sensor, that's why I am so much worry about missing the 'sensor protection', as changing lens in the open is un-avoidable.

10-24-2016, 11:44 PM	#54
Kiwi645hauler Veteran Member Join Date: Mar 2016 Location: Dunedin Posts: 394	Originally posted by lotech Dust is not a problem, depends on how and where you use the camera, sand and sticky fluid is hard to clean and easy to cause damage to the sensor, that's why I am so much worry about missing the 'sensor protection', as changing lens in the open is un-avoidable. Ive used Micro 4/3 mirrorless for nearly 3 years now and i constantly change lenses out in the open in dusty windy conditions and had no problems, I carry a sensor cleaning kit with me and when i do a download at the end of a day i always check the last 20-50 frames for dust and do a clean.

10-25-2016, 08:08 AM	#55
reh321 Pentaxian Join Date: Nov 2014 Location: South Bend, IN, USA Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 23,177 Original Poster	Originally posted by lotech Dust is not a problem, depends on how and where you use the camera, sand and sticky fluid is hard to clean and easy to cause damage to the sensor, that's why I am so much worry about missing the 'sensor protection', as changing lens in the open is un-avoidable. Part of "unavoidable" is what lenses you use and what pictures you take. Several years ago I bought a Tamron 18-270mm lens so I wouldn't have to change lenses, but I found that I normally knew whether I needed my 18-55 or my 70-300 lens before I ever left my car or home, so I had stopped using that lens within a few months. Of course, someone who insists on using primes will probably change lenses much more often. I have always protected my camera {I usually insist on sitting if at all possible} when changing lenses. I have never detected a spot on the lens of my DSLR; I detected one tiny one-pixel spot on my Q-7 once, but not since I turned on the "clean sensor" option for when I turn it on.

10-25-2016, 10:42 AM	#56
bobbotron Site Supporter Join Date: Jan 2015 Location: Ottawa, ON Photos: Gallery Posts: 3,349	I'd love a K mount mirrorless camera for working with manual focus glass. Size doesn't matter to me, the same size as the K3 is great, if a little smaller that'd be fine too. I've almost bought a K01 a few times for this very reason. A modern update would be great.

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10-25-2016, 10:57 AM	#57
surfar Pentaxian Join Date: Jan 2015 Location: mid nth coast,nsw Photos: Gallery Posts: 6,137	Originally posted by bobbotron I've almost bought a K01 Buy one! They are cheap and the images from the old lenses are great.

10-25-2016, 12:35 PM	#58
Tony Belding Site Supporter Join Date: Mar 2013 Location: Hamilton, Texas Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 778	Originally posted by bobbotron I'd love a K mount mirrorless camera for working with manual focus glass. Size doesn't matter to me, the same size as the K3 is great, if a little smaller that'd be fine too. I've almost bought a K01 a few times for this very reason. A modern update would be great. I had a K-01 for a while. There were a lot of things I liked about it, but. . . Being restricted to composing on the LCD is a significant shortcoming, unless you take a Hoodman loupe everywhere. Also, the focus peaking isn't up to the standard of some other brands.

10-25-2016, 12:54 PM	#59
bobbotron Site Supporter Join Date: Jan 2015 Location: Ottawa, ON Photos: Gallery Posts: 3,349	Originally posted by surfar Buy one! They are cheap and the images from the old lenses are great. Every time I think about it, I think my K3 pretty much already does all that in live view mode, and the camera case is... overstocked. :P

10-25-2016, 04:46 PM	#60
reh321 Pentaxian Join Date: Nov 2014 Location: South Bend, IN, USA Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 23,177 Original Poster	Originally posted by bobbotron Every time I think about it, I think my K3 pretty much already does all that in live view mode, and the camera case is... overstocked. :P Yeah, but I find using my K-30 {as I had to do today because the light was so dim} is really hard to do. However, I'm guessing that the K-01's LCD wouldn't be much better - I won't buy a camera for this feature until it is delivered via an EVF rather than an LCD.