Forgot Password
Pentax Camera Forums Home
 

Reply
Show Printable Version Search this Thread
07-27-2018, 05:48 PM - 1 Like   #16
Site Supporter
Site Supporter




Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Hamilton, Texas
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 773
I get the oddest feeling that we've had this discussion before.

On the other hand, we've got Nikon and Canon coming out with new mirrorless systems Real Soon Now, so maybe it's a good time to hash it all over again?

You can put me in the same camp with those who liked the K-01 okay and mainly wished it had a EVF. For some reason Pentax seem highly allergic to EVFs. They've dabbled with mirrorless cameras several times, but never put an EVF on one.

A new mirrorless camera doesn't require a new lens mount (as the K-01 demonstrated), and introducing a new mirrorless camera with K-mount doesn't rule out Pentax introducing a new mount (and adapter) later down the road. They could just defer that to some future time frame when they're better positioned to tackle it.

If it was up to me, I'd stick with APS-C. Everyone seems to have Full Frame Fever these days (except Fujifilm, and Olympus, and Panasonic, haha!) but making everything full frame, and committing to that for the long term just because that happens to be the current fashion, may not be the smartest move.

07-27-2018, 08:13 PM   #17
Pentaxian




Join Date: Apr 2012
Posts: 1,306
Original Poster
I am in the EVF camp, I take the Fuji X30 instead of the MX-1 because of the EVF. There are 2 reasons I love EVF, first is easy to read in day light, 2nd reason is the same easy to read due to my farsighted vision, you can imagine how odd it looks and how tired and unstable holding the camera a foot or more away to frame and shoot, even I have prescription glasses it is still tiresome to do that. The 3rd reason if exist is to eliminate distraction from the surrounding while framing, but you may want to see the subject entering the frame and fire the shutter at the perfect moment, with EVF I can keep both my eyes open while framing to get the same result , that's many photographers do. To me EVF is a must have, I wish my cell phone got one too ha !
07-27-2018, 08:25 PM   #18
Veteran Member
johnmflores's Avatar

Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Somerville, NJ
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 5,361
QuoteOriginally posted by Tony Belding Quote
I get the oddest feeling that we've had this discussion before.

On the other hand, we've got Nikon and Canon coming out with new mirrorless systems Real Soon Now, so maybe it's a good time to hash it all over again?

You can put me in the same camp with those who liked the K-01 okay and mainly wished it had a EVF. For some reason Pentax seem highly allergic to EVFs. They've dabbled with mirrorless cameras several times, but never put an EVF on one.

A new mirrorless camera doesn't require a new lens mount (as the K-01 demonstrated), and introducing a new mirrorless camera with K-mount doesn't rule out Pentax introducing a new mount (and adapter) later down the road. They could just defer that to some future time frame when they're better positioned to tackle it.

If it was up to me, I'd stick with APS-C. Everyone seems to have Full Frame Fever these days (except Fujifilm, and Olympus, and Panasonic, haha!) but making everything full frame, and committing to that for the long term just because that happens to be the current fashion, may not be the smartest move.
QuoteOriginally posted by lotech Quote
I am in the EVF camp, I take the Fuji X30 instead of the MX-1 because of the EVF. There are 2 reasons I love EVF, first is easy to read in day light, 2nd reason is the same easy to read due to my farsighted vision, you can imagine how odd it looks and how tired and unstable holding the camera a foot or more away to frame and shoot, even I have prescription glasses it is still tiresome to do that. The 3rd reason if exist is to eliminate distraction from the surrounding while framing, but you may want to see the subject entering the frame and fire the shutter at the perfect moment, with EVF I can keep both my eyes open while framing to get the same result , that's many photographers do. To me EVF is a must have, I wish my cell phone got one too ha !
What would compel you to buy a K-01 with an EVF vs. a DSLR with an OVF?
07-27-2018, 09:55 PM   #19
Pentaxian




Join Date: Apr 2012
Posts: 1,306
Original Poster
I never consider the K01 due to the bad ergonomic, I mention the K01 simply because it is the only K mirrorless, and if I can have a choice I still want OVF on high end DSLR

07-27-2018, 10:08 PM - 1 Like   #20
Loyal Site Supporter
Loyal Site Supporter
monochrome's Avatar

Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Working From Home
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 26,276
Pentax would also need to be at least competent in video. There’s not really a point to MILC unless you can capture motion.

AFA K-01, I got a used Zacuto video LCD loupe in the Marketplace and it changes the entire experience using the K-01. Imagine Focus Peaking on a full LCD with all the information overlays, holding the camera up to your eye - and no washout. I wonder if people would accept a Pentax FF K-mount MILC radically re-thought with a permanent LCD loupe. Manual lens users ought to love it.
07-27-2018, 10:32 PM - 1 Like   #21
Veteran Member
sunny16's Avatar

Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Maryland, USA
Photos: Albums
Posts: 309
QuoteOriginally posted by monochrome Quote
Manual lens users ought to love it.
That is the heart of it though, isn't it? I mean, both OVF and EVF have their pluses and EVF's have gotten good enough where they don't distract from the process (at least for me.) I'm not saying that I want the next K-1 to have an EVF, but in a perfect world, I would love for Pentax to give me an EVF (camera) option. I am one of those people who has a ton of Takumar, M, and A series lenses and I can work with them with live view, but there are plenty of times where I would prefer to focus at eye-level. I would also rather give my $$ to Pentax vs buying other (Sony) options.

First world contemplations, I know.
07-27-2018, 11:21 PM   #22
Pentaxian
Wasp's Avatar

Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: Pretoria
Photos: Gallery
Posts: 4,650
Interesting discussion, let my add my $0.02 of thoughts.

The top end mirrorless market is now pretty much the domain of Sony and Fujifilm. The Four Thirds competition has folded up their tents and left. Even the mighty Samsung, with huge resources from consumer goods and cellphone sales, gave up in disgust. They could have kept their NX line as a loss making poster child, but chose not to.


The current Canon EOS M mirrorless lineup isn't quite good enough for the Sony and Fujifilm crowd. Nikon seems to be years behind, but they will release something really profound. Real soon now. One of these days. Promise.

Where does all this leave Pentax? A proper mirrorless will need a new lens mount, which will soak up R&D funds that could go towards new K mount full frame lenses. If they do release such a thing, the fan boys (that's us) will ask for a K mount adapter. Not just a mechanical adapter, mind you. It is already possible to put a K mount lens on just about every mirrorless body ever made, with manual aperture and focus.


An official Pentax adapter will have to do auto focus and exposure. The fan boys (that's us) will want an adapter with a built-in motor for screw drive autofocus lenses as well. It can probably done, but will soak more of those precious R&D funds. And this miraculous piece of technology will have to be competitively priced, as well.

Pentax already tried the mirrorless K-mount thing with the K01 and it didn't work out well. It was a bit of an odd duck in the looks department. Autofocus was not quite up to the standard set by its mirrored brothers. With only a rear screen, it had the same limitations as phone cameras. Perhaps if it had an EVF, things would have been better, but that would have made it even more odd. A DSLR sized body with an empty mirror box, who wants that?


In any case, a full featured mirrorless isn't much smaller or lighter than a DSLR. I just compared my NX1 to my K-x and there isn't much difference. The Samsung body is slightly thinner from front to back and that is about it. Width, height and mass is very similar.


One can use a DSLR as a mirrorless - just press the live view button. That isn't always going to work, though. In the end it comes down to whether an OVF or an EVF works best for you. After decades of OVF use, an EVF is slightly strange. I don't use the EVF on my NX1 very much. That lovely rear screen works very well.


The EVF has the edge in one important niche - manual focus for those who wear prescription eye glasses. You are looking at an image on a screen. No additional lenses in the optical path from front lens element to eyeball to introduce focus errors!


I'm not holding my breath for a new Pentax mirrorless. If it does appear, I might be in the market for one. For now, the NX1 scratches my mirrorless itch very well.

07-27-2018, 11:32 PM   #23
Pentaxian




Join Date: Apr 2012
Posts: 1,306
Original Poster
IMO Pentax has never focus on video, video capture is just a bonus feature I rarely use it, I even wished Pentax completely drop video on their new models ! for those 'video centric' users there are better choices. I brought this out before so I make it short here, for those 'still purist' paying the extra money for something they rarely use is a bad deal, and even the camera got world class video specification it still lacks the ergonomic and flexibility of a real video camera. If I am serious about video I would go for something like the Canon XC-10, which also shoot stills. 6K and 8K video already there so the bar keep rising, but In the reality those wanted a 4K video equipped still camera how many of them ever shot more than an hour of video with it ? On the other hand many people want 4K simply because they want to grab a frame from the video that they would normally miss ! there is no direct linkage between video capability and a successful still camera, it is just personal preference and marketing decision.


QuoteOriginally posted by monochrome Quote
Pentax would also need to be at least competent in video. There’s not really a point to MILC unless you can capture motion.

AFA K-01, I got a used Zacuto video LCD loupe in the Marketplace and it changes the entire experience using the K-01. Imagine Focus Peaking on a full LCD with all the information overlays, holding the camera up to your eye - and no washout. I wonder if people would accept a Pentax FF K-mount MILC radically re-thought with a permanent LCD loupe. Manual lens users ought to love it.
07-28-2018, 12:08 AM - 1 Like   #24
Senior Member




Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Upstate New York
Posts: 105
Even though there have been threads on this topic, I must have missed the post about why a new mount is absolutely mandatory. Of all the reasons the K-01 failed, making it with the K mount so existing Pentaxians could use all their lenses without an adapter wasn't one of them.
07-28-2018, 01:53 AM   #25
Veteran Member
Barry Pearson's Avatar

Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Stockport
Posts: 964
QuoteOriginally posted by larryaustin3 Quote
Even though there have been threads on this topic, I must have missed the post about why a new mount is absolutely mandatory. Of all the reasons the K-01 failed, making it with the K mount so existing Pentaxians could use all their lenses without an adapter wasn't one of them.
You are perfectly correct, of course!

The fact that other companies with vastly more lens-development resource than Ricoh/Pentax use new mounts doesn't mean that Ricoh/Pentax has to do the same thing.

"Mirrorless" and "new mount" are largely independent concepts. Pentax could release an SLR with a mount other than K-mount. (As they did with 645Z). Or they could release a mirrorless camera with a K-mount. (As they did with K-01).
07-28-2018, 05:02 AM   #26
Site Supporter
Site Supporter




Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Hamilton, Texas
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 773
QuoteOriginally posted by Wasp Quote
The top end mirrorless market is now pretty much the domain of Sony and Fujifilm.
Is "top end" the only thing we care about? Because I'm pretty sure I saw somewhere that the company selling the most mirrorless system cameras is Canon. The EOS M5 may not be "top end", but it's pretty competent, not a toy camera.


QuoteQuote:
The Four Thirds competition has folded up their tents and left.
They have? News to me, unless "folded up their tents and left" means something different from what it sounds like. (I'm sure there are people who think Pentax have folded up their tent and left the DSLR market.)


QuoteQuote:
The current Canon EOS M mirrorless lineup isn't quite good enough for the Sony and Fujifilm crowd.
I don't know about this crowd or that crowd, but somebody's buying them.


QuoteQuote:
Where does all this leave Pentax? A proper mirrorless will need a new lens mount... Pentax already tried the mirrorless K-mount thing with the K01 and it didn't work out well. It was a bit of an odd duck in the looks department. Autofocus was not quite up to the standard set by its mirrored brothers. With only a rear screen, it had the same limitations as phone cameras. Perhaps if it had an EVF, things would have been better, but that would have made it even more odd. A DSLR sized body with an empty mirror box, who wants that?
Lots of people point to the K-01 and say, "We must learn the lesson from this!" Unfortunately, there's not a lot of agreement about exactly what lesson we should take away from it. Some say it was great if only it had an EVF. Some say it was great if only it had a new lens mount. Some say it was great of only it had more ergonomic controls and didn't look like a toy. Some say it was great (the early reviews were mostly positive) if only Pentax knew how to market it. Maybe it's some combination of those things.
07-28-2018, 06:19 AM   #27
Pentaxian
Wasp's Avatar

Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: Pretoria
Photos: Gallery
Posts: 4,650
My take on the demise of the K-01 was that the empty mirror box left people feeling short changed.
07-28-2018, 12:51 PM   #28
Senior Member
Robot camera's Avatar

Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Milton Keynes, Buckinghamshire
Posts: 193
QuoteOriginally posted by Wasp Quote
My take on the demise of the K-01 was that the empty mirror box left people feeling short changed.

My take on it was similar, I think. Pentax took a digital SLR, and removed the very components that are the reason people buy a Single Lens Reflex! What were they thinking?
07-28-2018, 01:26 PM   #29
Pentaxian
reh321's Avatar

Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: South Bend, IN, USA
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 23,128
QuoteOriginally posted by Robot camera Quote

My take on it was similar, I think. Pentax took a digital SLR, and removed the very components that are the reason people buy a Single Lens Reflex! What were they thinking?
I totally disagree. I don't know about other people, but I purchased my first SLR in May 1979 because I wanted interchangeable lenses. After three SLRs, when I went digital in Feb 2007 I tried a compact camera to get size down. After nine months I decided that had been a terrible mistake and I purchased a DSLR. I don't need a mirror!!! I need a K-mount, or an EF-mount, or a EF-M-mount, or even a K-M-mount .... I need a something-mount with a viewfinder. If Pentax came out tomorrow with a K-02 with EVF, I'd be ready to scrimp then purchase.
07-28-2018, 01:36 PM   #30
Forum Member
Aberrator's Avatar

Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Kaunas
Photos: Gallery
Posts: 97
Wasn't Samsung ahead of the rest and closest to the ideal "dedicated mirrorless smart IL camera with proper operating system and apps" with their Galaxy NX? Yet they saw no future in it and get rid of dedicated camera line completely. Too much like a camera for smartphone users, too much like a smartphone for photographers?
Reply

Bookmarks
  • Submit Thread to Facebook Facebook
  • Submit Thread to Twitter Twitter
  • Submit Thread to Digg Digg
Tags - Make this thread easier to find by adding keywords to it!
advantage, camera, design, digital camera, evf, extend, k-01, lens, lenses, line, milc, mirrorless, pentax, process, production, system
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
New Term LRD =Lens Rebuilding Disease niceshot Pentax DSLR Discussion 22 03-12-2017 02:43 AM
Need advice on rebuilding my collection of photo gear umdunnmk General Photography 9 06-03-2016 04:27 PM
Wanted - Acquired: Rebuilding a kit nomadkng Sold Items 7 12-31-2015 04:13 PM
Rebuilding my workstation Gashog Digital Processing, Software, and Printing 14 11-17-2011 02:13 PM
Rebuilding the 35 MM Format FA* line to the DA* APS-C Format Adrian Owerko Pentax SLR Lens Discussion 14 01-20-2010 11:04 AM



All times are GMT -7. The time now is 02:19 AM. | See also: NikonForums.com, CanonForums.com part of our network of photo forums!
  • Red (Default)
  • Green
  • Gray
  • Dark
  • Dark Yellow
  • Dark Blue
  • Old Red
  • Old Green
  • Old Gray
  • Dial-Up Style
Hello! It's great to see you back on the forum! Have you considered joining the community?
register
Creating a FREE ACCOUNT takes under a minute, removes ads, and lets you post! [Dismiss]
Top