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02-07-2019, 05:48 PM - 1 Like   #31
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QuoteOriginally posted by brofessor Quote
I think what he is trying to say is that, holding the skill constant, Sony has a more advanced AF system. A skilled photographer will always find ways to make best use of any AF system.
I will say that I do not think that in practice, keeping everything else equal, Sony's auto focus system is faster than a good quality (current generation) SLR's auto focus system and these systems do have significant downsides when it comes to still image quality.

Edit: People quote all this advertising fluff about Sony cameras. Yes, some of them are fast, but so are current generation SLRs. You'd be hard pressed to see a difference in good light and in poor light, the SLRs will out perform the mirrorless camera due to the dedicated auto focus sensor.


Last edited by Rondec; 02-07-2019 at 06:03 PM.
02-07-2019, 06:49 PM   #32
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I would love one, but I Know they missed the boat. I have K-01 and Q cameras and yep they are only missing one thing =)
02-07-2019, 07:06 PM   #33
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QuoteOriginally posted by Rondec Quote
But that's not a feature of mirrorless, it is just a negative on Pentax's current implementation of auto focus. I imagine a D850 or D750 even would keep up with your A7 III's auto focus just fine.

As far as the initial question, biz-engineer is right, the only mirrorless likely coming this year is the GR III. I think it will be well received, but of course, it isn't an ILC.
I doubt the D750 would be a match for either the D850 or the SONY in terms of AF performance. The SONY has nearly 700 AF points vs under 200 for the D850. Video wise (important to me) the SONY will outperform either at 1080 or 4K, although the D850 is excellent but because of the slower readouts of the larger sensor, rolling shutter effects are likely to be an issue at times. Neither of the Nikons will let me use with adapters, my favorite Pentax and Canon lenses. Nor do the Nikons have internal IS.

My opinion, FWIW, is that Pentax should not release a mirrorless unless they seriously rethink their corporate attitude towards video performance. A Pentax mirrorless with mediocre video would be ignored by both the public at large and hard core Pentax users. Like certain politicians, Pentax isn't expanding its user base and those of us who do have a need for serious video capable cameras have, for the most part, already supplemented our Pentax bodies with SONY or Panasonic.
02-07-2019, 08:52 PM   #34
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QuoteOriginally posted by CDW Quote
I doubt the D750 would be a match for either the D850 or the SONY in terms of AF performance. The SONY has nearly 700 AF points vs under 200 for the D850.
Number of points aren't a predictor of AF performance, CDW. *Coverage of the frame* maybe.

A DSLR's AF module points can be quite large and accurate because it's a dedicated system, you must make the AF points on any mirrorless small, perhaps too small, because with an on-sensor PDAF system you're actually getting missing bands and holes in your picture wherever they are.


Last edited by clackers; 02-07-2019 at 09:03 PM.
02-07-2019, 08:57 PM - 1 Like   #35
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QuoteOriginally posted by CDW Quote
My opinion, FWIW, is that Pentax should not release a mirrorless unless they seriously rethink their corporate attitude towards video performance. A Pentax mirrorless with mediocre video would be ignored by both the public at large and hard core Pentax users.
It has been shown by poll here that video is unimportant to Pentax users, and by DPR to be unimportant for Canon and Nikon users too when asked about what they wanted in the FF mirrorless releases.

It might be important to *you* as an individual, but that's not shared by any sizeable proportion of either the market or your fellow forum members, and I note you also have other products, including a GH4, for that anyway.

As for mirrorless as a concept, at the last Photokina interview, the Pentax management said:

"Ricoh feels that there will be a market for cameras with an optical viewfinder in the K-mount arena for many years to come, because many photographers prefer an optical viewfinder. DSLRs and mirrorless each have their strong points, and Ricoh is closely watching the mirrorless market and studying how users want to use their cameras and which features they expect. At this point Ricoh has not decided if they will add mirrorless cameras to the product lineup, but they don't exclude anything. The deliberations regarding mirrorless also cover the 645 format and decisions made could vary by format. The focus is on how the photographers want to use their cameras and what they expect from them; this will drive decisions about format (APS-C/FF/645) and type of camera technology for future products.

Read more at: https://www.pentaxforums.com/articles/photokina-2018/interview-with-ricoh.html#ixzz5euLPdGcE"

Last edited by clackers; 02-07-2019 at 09:03 PM.
02-07-2019, 08:57 PM - 1 Like   #36
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A lot of discussion regarding mirrorless and DSLR

But to answer your question of the OP in the first message.... NO mirrorless for Pentax THIS year.

The rest who care....
02-07-2019, 09:41 PM - 1 Like   #37
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Unfortunately, Pentax still not have a mirrorless DSLR, it's sad. Any photographer these days must have no mirror.

---------- Post added 08-02-19 at 05:42 ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by CDW Quote
I own a K1 and a SONY a7III. The SONY focus is much faster and accurate than the K1, not to mention the SONY's tracking ability. I'm happy with both cameras, they each serve purposes specific for my needs.
Fast AF and AF tracking is a must for well composed photographs.

---------- Post added 08-02-19 at 05:44 ----------

For me, anyone asking for fast autofocus fall into the mass photographer type of photographer: not able to compose a photograph.

---------- Post added 08-02-19 at 05:46 ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by bobmaxja Quote
But to answer your question of the OP in the first message.... NO mirrorless for Pentax THIS year.
What? NO mirrorlessless? C'mon? I'm afraid the GRIII is a Ricoh, not a Pentax, unfortunately.

Last edited by biz-engineer; 02-07-2019 at 09:47 PM.
02-07-2019, 10:04 PM   #38
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For me, anyone asking for fast autofocus fall into the mass photographer type of photographer: not able to compose a photograph.

When you're trying to capture a shot of a whale breaching with a 600mm lens, composition takes a back seat to a sharp capture that can be cropped.

02-07-2019, 10:33 PM   #39
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QuoteOriginally posted by CDW Quote
For me, anyone asking for fast autofocus fall into the mass photographer type of photographer: not able to compose a photograph.

When you're trying to capture a shot of a whale breaching with a 600mm lens, composition takes a back seat to a sharp capture that can be cropped.
Well, it was no problem for Aussie surf photographer Chris Hewgill with his K-3 and Siggy 150-500:

Whale Breach - PentaxForums.com

and this is just one of so many from Fwcetus, who has had a long interest in whales:

02-07-2019, 11:29 PM   #40
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QuoteOriginally posted by CDW Quote
When you're trying to capture a shot of a whale breaching with a 600mm lens, composition takes a back seat to a sharp capture that can be cropped.
That's the kind of photograph that soon will be done by a computer without you, simply because this kind of photographs doesn't need any human to do it. Actually, the equipment for automatic tracking of skiers for video recording already exist, no need of people behind the camera. People craving the Sony A9 , definitely not the same aim as people using cameras such as the 645z, GFX50 and larger formats. With the kind of photography sought after with a Sony A9, the technology makes the difference the guy behind the camera makes no difference (you can pick any random person who has no skill and have the Sony A9 get sharp but meaningless images). At the other end of the spectrum, medium format cameras with large sensors, very slow autofocus and slow frame rate take the kind of photographs where the photographer skills and style make a big difference. Once Raymond Depardon of Magnum photo spent months traveling France for a photographic project, he used a large format film camera, and when he was interviewed about why he did not use a digital camera he said "those cameras are for people in hurry".

Last edited by biz-engineer; 02-07-2019 at 11:44 PM.
02-07-2019, 11:36 PM   #41
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QuoteOriginally posted by brofessor Quote
What are the chances of Pentax announcing an enthusiast level mirrorless this year? Ö
From reading many of Pentax interview, I guess, It is very slim to non. Pentax reps seem to believe the company is serving what their users want. (I guess, they are only listen to ďsomeď group of user they want to listen and the groups that left the brand are not the group they want to listen.) They were doing / saying almost the same when people asked for FF DSLR years before the release of K1. As for mirrorless trend right now, they has been saying it time and time again, they donít want to follow the (market) trend. I am not sure who make this decision. (Pentax or Ricoh?) To me, I am more interesting in the survival of the brand. So I think, relying on existing but also srinking existing users alone is not the way to survive todayís market. I think the brand should try to get more new user. Because the more new people buying their product = the more they make money = the more they can to throw $$$ at R&D = the more the brand grow and so no. And because of that, sometime they have to follow market trend. If follow market trend was a wrong way to go, we wonít see Sony and Fuji at where they are now. The same go to Canon / Nikon and everyone in Japan back when they followed the Asahi Opticalís lead on a SLR body design with an instant-return mirror. Imagin if Canon said; we donít follow Asahi Optic lead and the market trend back then!
But what do I really know?
Pentax might want to do a mirrorless body now (so they can get the same start as the other bigger guy in the market) but Ricoh wonít let them do. or... etc. I really donít know.

QuoteOriginally posted by brofessor Quote
Something that can compete with the likes of Sony A6xxx or Fuji XT series. Something that can rival a K70 in IQ. I would buy something like that. Wouldnít you?
I would be more interesting in FF mirrorless because I can see KP is really a good, comfortably small and light weight body for APSC. if they did FF mirrorless and upgrade FA limited to DFA limited (keep the same side and weight) they could make the old fan really happy and a lot more new user who wants a real light weight mirrorless without having to use the over size lenses like what Sony is offering might come here too.
But again, what do I know? I know nothing. I am sure they have a lot of technical difficalty. well.. I donít expect any thing new coming at CP+ this year either.
02-08-2019, 12:09 AM   #42
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QuoteOriginally posted by labidas Quote
And the benefits are pretty obvious.1)You have less surfaces/obstructions that interfere with the focus.2)Focusing is done on the sensor which means AF microadjustments are unnecessary.3)You can spread out your focus points all across the sensor.4)You can use a combination of contrast + phase detect AF.5)You can use the actual live feed from the sensor and combine it with AI. = eyeAF!!!
Looks like you are onto selling us something. Have your role been unconsciously transferred from being a customer to being a Sony sales & marketing person? You sound very much like my friend who was setting himself up for negotiating the purchase of a real estate property: he pitched me about how good the property was, no need to say he got badly ripped-off when he signed the largely overpriced contract. It's a bit like being infatuated by promotion.
02-08-2019, 12:12 AM   #43
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QuoteOriginally posted by clackers Quote
Well, it was no problem for Aussie surf photographer Chris Hewgill with his K-3 and Siggy 150-500:

Whale Breach - PentaxForums.com

and this is just one of so many from Fwcetus, who has had a long interest in whales:
Well I'm not a surf photographer, I'm a 76 old year senior who spent many years shooting large and medium format film. Until recently I shot with a 645Z and a K1, but my video projects necessitated selling the Z. I shoot with what I need to get the shot. If the surfer photographer can get what he needs with a K3, more power to him.
02-08-2019, 02:58 AM   #44
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QuoteOriginally posted by biz-engineer Quote
Looks like you are onto selling us something. Have your role been unconsciously transferred from being a customer to being a Sony sales & marketing person? You sound very much like my friend who was setting himself up for negotiating the purchase of a real estate property: he pitched me about how good the property was, no need to say he got badly ripped-off when he signed the largely overpriced contract. It's a bit like being infatuated by promotion.
I've tested the A7-III during a press event. It's faster than any Pentax that's for sure.
02-08-2019, 03:57 AM   #45
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QuoteOriginally posted by CDW Quote
I doubt the D750 would be a match for either the D850 or the SONY in terms of AF performance. The SONY has nearly 700 AF points vs under 200 for the D850. Video wise (important to me) the SONY will outperform either at 1080 or 4K, although the D850 is excellent but because of the slower readouts of the larger sensor, rolling shutter effects are likely to be an issue at times. Neither of the Nikons will let me use with adapters, my favorite Pentax and Canon lenses. Nor do the Nikons have internal IS.

My opinion, FWIW, is that Pentax should not release a mirrorless unless they seriously rethink their corporate attitude towards video performance. A Pentax mirrorless with mediocre video would be ignored by both the public at large and hard core Pentax users. Like certain politicians, Pentax isn't expanding its user base and those of us who do have a need for serious video capable cameras have, for the most part, already supplemented our Pentax bodies with SONY or Panasonic.
Let's talk about this in two segments. First of all, I probably shouldn't have brought up the D750. It is a previous generation camera and red herring. The point is mainly that current generation cameras tend to perform similarly in good light, whether SLR or MILC technology and in poor light, SLRs tend to perform better with regard to auto focus.

The second thing is that the things you are interested in are just not strong points for Pentax. They have improved auto focus over time, but not at the rate that their competitors have and they kept basically the same auto focus system with tiny tweaks the whole time that Hoya owned them. While they have video on their cameras, they aren't focused on it and it is more about checking boxes than actually trying to meet a particular need of their users. A Pentax mirrorless without adequate R and D investment is bound to be a failure.

Sony has had years to refine their mirrorless cameras. By all accounts, cameras like the original A7, while cheap, are not great performers in most of the respects that you mention. Even Canon and Nikon's initial mirrorless offerings have had some issues that make them less than stellar performers. It takes time and a lot of technical know-how to develop a viable mirrorless camera platform and I don't know why people think that if Pentax came out with one that it would be better in most of these respects than their SLR offerings. What I imagine is that Pentax mirrorless would basically perform like whatever the K3 II sequel is -- just stuck in live view mode all of the time. Having used live view some on both the K-1 and the K3, I respectfully think for still photography shooting I prefer to keep the OVF for the time being.
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