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08-14-2020, 02:07 AM - 3 Likes   #46
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QuoteOriginally posted by pres589 Quote
Pentax introduced the DA 40 XS with the K-01 which is a clear alternative to the DA 40 Limited. I don't think you could really suggest that the K-01 was made to be used with the Ltd's unless you want to ignore the 40 XS entirely. I think the K-01 was another chance that Pentax took to be a little different and to try and get a different camera body out without doing 100% of the effort required to get there (a lot of borrowed K-30 bits to make a MILC).


It would be interesting to see the logic behind creating the K-01 from internal documentation that are clear of marketing speak entirely; who they thought would buy the camera, why they would consider the K-01 over other alternatives, etc.
The 40 XS is an interesting one. I don't think it says anything about which lenses Pentax originally intended to be used with the camera because it was not Pentax's idea in the first place.

In one of the presentations I attended last year for the 100 Years of Pentax celebration, a member or the Ricoh/Pentax design team (goes by the name TKO) spoke about the design process and working with Marc Newson. He seems to have been the contact point on the Pentax side. From what he said, the lens was not part of the original design brief given to the designer. Apparently, Marc Newson had always wanted to do a camera and got really into the project. He ended up proposing the 40 XS lens, custom strap and the package and designing them at no extra charge.

I wrote about this presentation in another thread.
Pentax 100 - Talk by the designer TKO - PentaxForums.com

It seems Newson also designed additional color variations. If you look at this video from about 3:30, you can see that he designed the blue variant that came out later in Japan, but there is also one with a pink grip that was never released.


Going back to the presentation, the other thing TKO recounted quite amusingly (which I didn't mention in the linked summary) was the meeting where he first presented the prototype to management. The design team placed it on the meeting table and it was just met by a long, awkward silence.

This is just my opinion, but I think they specifically wanted to appeal to people outside the normal camera enthusiasts with the K-01. Around that time there you could see quite a lot of DSLR users holding their cameras out in front of them and using live view. There's some logic to thinking that they might prefer a camera without a viewfinder at all. In fact mirrorless cameras with no OVF or EVF do sell well in Japan and other parts of Asia. In any case, they hedged their bets by making the K-30 as well, so people who wanted a viewfinder were not left out.

I also think the release timing is significant. It was just after the merger and you know whit it is like after a merger. People tend to get rather worried and risk-averse after mergers. I can't help but feel Pentax had bigger plans for the K-01, but ended up releasing it rather apologetically. In that year Pentax had a big TV ad campaign in Japan with a well known actor, which could have reached way beyond normal camera enthusiasts to the broader audience that the K-01 targeted. That advertisement was for the K-30, but I wonder whether at some stage that was going to be for the K-01. It's all speculation, but I think they lost their bottle when they started handing prototypes around to executives and traditional photographers started reacting negatively.

08-14-2020, 05:21 AM   #47
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QuoteOriginally posted by luftfluss Quote
Of all the lenses I've used on the K-01, the DA Ltds, with the exception of the 35 Macro, work the best. Lenses that are small, light, f/2.8 or faster, and have short focus throws are the best for the K-01.
As it works out, the lens I'm using most on a K-01 is the Tamron 17-50/2.8.

That lens never focused well on DSLRs, but it's just made for the native live view of the K-01,
and becomes reliably sharp all around on that camera.
08-16-2020, 07:19 PM   #48
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QuoteOriginally posted by JPT Quote
The 40 XS is an interesting one. I don't think it says anything about which lenses Pentax originally intended to be used with the camera because it was not Pentax's idea in the first place.

In one of the presentations I attended last year for the 100 Years of Pentax celebration, a member or the Ricoh/Pentax design team (goes by the name TKO) spoke about the design process and working with Marc Newson. He seems to have been the contact point on the Pentax side. From what he said, the lens was not part of the original design brief given to the designer. Apparently, Marc Newson had always wanted to do a camera and got really into the project. He ended up proposing the 40 XS lens, custom strap and the package and designing them at no extra charge.

I wrote about this presentation in another thread.
Pentax 100 - Talk by the designer TKO - PentaxForums.com

It seems Newson also designed additional color variations. If you look at this video from about 3:30, you can see that he designed the blue variant that came out later in Japan, but there is also one with a pink grip that was never released.

Marc Newson on designing nearly everything - YouTube

Going back to the presentation, the other thing TKO recounted quite amusingly (which I didn't mention in the linked summary) was the meeting where he first presented the prototype to management. The design team placed it on the meeting table and it was just met by a long, awkward silence.

This is just my opinion, but I think they specifically wanted to appeal to people outside the normal camera enthusiasts with the K-01. Around that time there you could see quite a lot of DSLR users holding their cameras out in front of them and using live view. There's some logic to thinking that they might prefer a camera without a viewfinder at all. In fact mirrorless cameras with no OVF or EVF do sell well in Japan and other parts of Asia. In any case, they hedged their bets by making the K-30 as well, so people who wanted a viewfinder were not left out.

I also think the release timing is significant. It was just after the merger and you know whit it is like after a merger. People tend to get rather worried and risk-averse after mergers. I can't help but feel Pentax had bigger plans for the K-01, but ended up releasing it rather apologetically. In that year Pentax had a big TV ad campaign in Japan with a well known actor, which could have reached way beyond normal camera enthusiasts to the broader audience that the K-01 targeted. That advertisement was for the K-30, but I wonder whether at some stage that was going to be for the K-01. It's all speculation, but I think they lost their bottle when they started handing prototypes around to executives and traditional photographers started reacting negatively.
Interesting and thanks for posting. I started this thread because I like the simplicity of the K-01. Didn't receive mine with the XS but do like using the 15, 40 and 70 on it. The M20/4 and K30/2.8 also fit this camera wonderfully. Couldn't care less about it being mirrorless or having an EVF. I do miss having some sort of viewfinder and guess I would appreciate a turret or even the old rangefinder style of a basic optical view through with different size squares to represent different focal lengths.
08-17-2020, 02:40 AM   #49
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I do think a K mount mirrorless would be a nice option to have in the future. That said, it would take a decent investment by Pentax to bring the specs up to close to where other brands are at the moment. You would need an EVF with minimal lag, excellent video (at least 4K), and decent auto focus with tracking with multiple AF points on the sensor.

A K-02 that is simply a K-P without a mirror or a K-1 II without a mirror is not likely to sell well without deep discounts.

08-17-2020, 08:37 AM   #50
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QuoteOriginally posted by Rondec Quote
I do think a K mount mirrorless would be a nice option to have in the future. That said, it would take a decent investment by Pentax to bring the specs up to close to where other brands are at the moment. You would need an EVF with minimal lag, excellent video (at least 4K), and decent auto focus with tracking with multiple AF points on the sensor.

A K-02 that is simply a K-P without a mirror or a K-1 II without a mirror is not likely to sell well without deep discounts.
If Pentax were to cram the KP's guts into a K-01esque body and price it around $800, that would immediately be my next camera purchase, even without an EVF or 4k video.
08-17-2020, 09:15 AM   #51
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QuoteOriginally posted by luftfluss Quote
If Pentax were to cram the KP's guts into a K-01esque body and price it around $800, that would immediately be my next camera purchase, even without an EVF or 4k video.
Sure. But how many people would buy a KP without a viewfinder, locked into live view with the associated slow-ish auto focus and poor tracking auto focus?
08-17-2020, 10:05 AM   #52
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QuoteOriginally posted by Rondec Quote
Sure. But how many people would buy a KP without a viewfinder, locked into live view with the associated slow-ish auto focus and poor tracking auto focus?
Oh, you are absolutely right. I don't think my solution would have widespread appeal, it's just what I would be happy with.

I think adding an EVF plus other enhancements would push the price north of $1000, and I'm not sure that would sell.

08-19-2020, 06:13 AM   #53
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QuoteOriginally posted by luftfluss Quote
Oh, you are absolutely right. I don't think my solution would have widespread appeal, it's just what I would be happy with.

I think adding an EVF plus other enhancements would push the price north of $1000, and I'm not sure that would sell.
I probably would - but they won’t.
I believe the “K-3ii replacement” clearly shows their devotion to mirrors and prisms
08-20-2020, 03:16 AM   #54
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I just think that other brand's experience tells us that version 1 (and often 2 and 3) of their MILCs is pretty buggy.

Pentax hasn't sunk enough R and D that direction for me to think that they could release an MILC with anything approaching a seamless experience. I'm guessing it would be something along the lines of a four or five year old MILC. Tough to make your money back when you are pricing for the current market, but specs compete with a four year old camera that could be had used for 500 or 600 dollars.
08-20-2020, 03:46 AM   #55
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Was the K-01 that unpolished to use though? I know that the firmware was basically K-30's even though it wasn't a 100% perfect fit, but I didn't think they were that far off the mark.

I think something that looks like a Fuji X-Tsomething like the X-T2 similar would be nice, with a full EVF, and Pentax's menu structure. There's some serious design philosophy differences between the top deck controls and layout between an X-T2 and Pentax DSLR's, so not sure how that would work exactly, but I'm sure they could figure it out. The control setup on the Nikon Df always sounded pretty good. But these are all suggestions of rehashing existing ideas from other companies which probably won't draw people in so well.

It would be interesting if Ricoh went mirrorless for the eventual K-70 replacement, and their lineup was that sort of thing; mirrorless at the bottom for "casual enthusiasts", something like the KP between, the K-7-5-3-etc pro-ish body line, and then whatever they're planning for full frame.
08-20-2020, 05:01 PM   #56
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QuoteOriginally posted by pcrichmond Quote
Interesting and thanks for posting. I started this thread because I like the simplicity of the K-01. Didn't receive mine with the XS but do like using the 15, 40 and 70 on it. The M20/4 and K30/2.8 also fit this camera wonderfully. Couldn't care less about it being mirrorless or having an EVF. I do miss having some sort of viewfinder and guess I would appreciate a turret or even the old rangefinder style of a basic optical view through with different size squares to represent different focal lengths.
Hi

You can fit a viewfinder onto a GR using the flash foot .. I wonder

Dave
11-01-2020, 06:41 AM   #57
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I wonder if they could make the space behind the sensor significantly narrower. If they could get that thickness down they probably could make a mirrorless camera and compete with other manufacturers. I wish they would make something unique and special.
11-18-2020, 01:42 AM   #58
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QuoteOriginally posted by Gilzuma Quote
I wonder if they could make the space behind the sensor significantly narrower. If they could get that thickness down they probably could make a mirrorless camera and compete with other manufacturers. I wish they would make something unique and special.
They already cut it down to a minimum on K-01.

K-01 has less space behind the sensor than any Pentax DSLR. But Pentax DSLR has less space behind the sensor than most other brands mirrorless cameras.
The only way to make the camera body significantly thinner is to introduce a new mount.

Last edited by Fogel70; 11-18-2020 at 01:58 AM.
11-18-2020, 05:48 AM   #59
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I actually think Pentax should create a body mixing the qualities of the K-01, the KP, and the K-70, of course all with the latest tech. What I'm about to suggest will sound crazy, but given that Pentax has created bodies with swappable viewfinders I think something like this is possibly revolutionary.

A base model with:
- No EVF/OVF, much like the current K-01
- OSPDAF like the K-70 but updated with better tracking
- 4k video
- A DSLR mirror which normally sits in the mirror up position
- A detachable top module which typically comes with flash + hotshoe
- Thin and sharp design, ergonomics, handgrip mods of the KP
- Clean HDMI out
- USB powering

Accessories:
- OVF
- EVF
- Changeable grips

That way, the base body is a MILC without EVF and can be modded into a DSLR or MILC with EVF. Considering that the only real point of innovation would be the accessories, and that the base model only has a detachable flash as the top module, I think a body like this can be reasonably priced and thin. The swappable grips already exist. The OSPDAF experience with the K-70 and the GR III already exist. It honestly sounds plausible that a body like this can retail for around 1000 USD, making it very compelling.
11-18-2020, 06:02 PM   #60
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QuoteOriginally posted by someasiancameraguy Quote
I actually think Pentax should create a body mixing the qualities of the K-01, the KP, and the K-70, of course all with the latest tech. What I'm about to suggest will sound crazy, but given that Pentax has created bodies with swappable viewfinders I think something like this is possibly revolutionary.

A base model with:
- No EVF/OVF, much like the current K-01
- OSPDAF like the K-70 but updated with better tracking
- 4k video
- A DSLR mirror which normally sits in the mirror up position
- A detachable top module which typically comes with flash + hotshoe
- Thin and sharp design, ergonomics, handgrip mods of the KP
- Clean HDMI out
- USB powering

Accessories:
- OVF
- EVF
- Changeable grips

That way, the base body is a MILC without EVF and can be modded into a DSLR or MILC with EVF. Considering that the only real point of innovation would be the accessories, and that the base model only has a detachable flash as the top module, I think a body like this can be reasonably priced and thin. The swappable grips already exist. The OSPDAF experience with the K-70 and the GR III already exist. It honestly sounds plausible that a body like this can retail for around 1000 USD, making it very compelling.
I think we all have a custom camera that we would create if we had unlimited resources...but I think this is too niche to actually be created.
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