Sigma 85mm 1.4: A real world test.

jstevewhite · 04-20-2011, 11:01 PM

Originally posted by outsider

Every week, I walk the streets taking pictures of random people. I ask to take their portrait and the approval rate is surprisingly high, but I think it depends on how you approach them. It's a lot of fun because of the variety of faces and expressions and the lighting conditions. My favorite scenario is taking a picture beneath a tree in clear, sunlit sky. You get an interesting pattern on the face that evokes a different emotion each time. Overcast is always a winner too. You don't have to worry about purple fringing and I still have enough shutter speed to get sharp photos and color/emotion of the portrait is more somber/serene.

Yeah, that's a talent. I've never had it. I've asked people a few times if I could take their picture, with success rate approaching zero. It's got to be something in my body language or face. I don't *feel* threatening, but I've had many people tell me they felt that way about me when we first met, although a bit of conversation banishes that perception. (nobody I know thinks I'm threatening - or else they just won't admit it

)

Those are some excellent portraits, I think; you've got a "look" going on that's very compelling.

jsherman999 · 04-21-2011, 07:15 AM

.

This image just may have sold a Sigma 85 1.4

Not just the incredible sharpness at that aperture, but the smooth transition to OOF and bokeh... Very 3-D.

.

Pentaxor · 04-21-2011, 08:49 AM

Originally posted by jsherman999

.

This image just may have sold a Sigma 85 1.4

Not just the incredible sharpness at that aperture, but the smooth transition to OOF and bokeh... Very 3-D.

.

I'm considering getting one for another mount since Pentax doesn't have FF to offer, unless I want to use it on film. :ugh:

yusuf · 04-21-2011, 09:39 AM

Originally posted by Asahiflex

Great series! I'm not entirely convinced about the colors, but that's possibly due to the K-x and not the Sigma.

What's wrong with k-x colors?

Asahiflex · 04-21-2011, 09:56 AM

Originally posted by jsherman999

.

This image just may have sold a Sigma 85 1.4

Not just the incredible sharpness at that aperture, but the smooth transition to OOF and bokeh... Very 3-D.

I agree. So you'll be getting one for the Nikon?

Asahiflex · 04-21-2011, 10:01 AM

Originally posted by yusuf

What's wrong with k-x colors?

It's hard to explain, but I found the default K-x colors a little bit flat and 'digital'. It could be caused by a lot of things, but let's just say that it's my subjective opinion. I plan to purchase a K-x in the future so I'll then be able to see if it's the camera or just me.

jsherman999 · 04-21-2011, 10:54 AM

Originally posted by Asahiflex

I agree. So you'll be getting one for the Nikon?

I really don't know. I'm one of those weirdos that actually likes the 85mm FL on aps-c, it's a nice short telephoto. Problems is, on Pentax I have the M 85 f/2 and 77ltd already - both pretty hard to beat. On Nikon I have the 85 1.8D.

Talk me into it, Peter.

Pentaxor · 04-21-2011, 10:57 AM

Originally posted by jsherman999

I really don't know. I'm one of those weirdos that actually likes the 85mm FL on aps-c, it's a nice short telephoto. Problems is, on Pentax I have the M 85 f/2 and 77ltd already - both pretty hard to beat. On Nikon I have the 85 1.8D.

Talk me into it, Peter.

you dont have f1.4 on both systems.

jstevewhite · 04-21-2011, 10:58 AM

Originally posted by jsherman999

I really don't know. I'm one of those weirdos that actually likes the 85mm FL on aps-c, it's a nice short telephoto. Problems is, on Pentax I have the M 85 f/2 and 77ltd already - both pretty hard to beat. On Nikon I have the 85 1.8D.

Talk me into it, Peter.

You already have the 85 1.8D? Why would you consider... Well, your money, but sheesh. That's a great lens, and you're only, what, 1/2, 2/3 stops down?

outsider · 04-21-2011, 02:56 PM

Originally posted by jstevewhite

Yeah, that's a talent. I've never had it. I've asked people a few times if I could take their picture, with success rate approaching zero. It's got to be something in my body language or face. I don't *feel* threatening, but I've had many people tell me they felt that way about me when we first met, although a bit of conversation banishes that perception. (nobody I know thinks I'm threatening - or else they just won't admit it

)

Those are some excellent portraits, I think; you've got a "look" going on that's very compelling.

This sort of thing isn't easy, at least for me. I have to mentally prepare myself to approach people with a easygoing, pleasant attitude, which can be difficult as f*ck, especially when you're tired or just want to hang out at home. But it gets easier as the day goes on and some times what is my most difficult day turns out to be my best day. It helps me to imagine how I'd want someone to approach me too. I try to forget about me and concentrate on the person. Of course, depending on where in the world you live, the preconcieved ideas, cliches, prejudices, etc., things may be much easier or more difficult. I just work with what I have until I get what I want. I enjoy failure sometimes almost more than success. It's not until one understands and is comfortable with failure that he becomes a true success. One realizes the potential of his own success when he accepts failure as a part of reality. I accept failure. I don't accept giving up as a result.

LFLee · 04-21-2011, 03:30 PM

Originally posted by outsider

This sort of thing isn't easy, at least for me. I have to mentally prepare myself to approach people with a easygoing, pleasant attitude, which can be difficult as f*ck, especially when you're tired or just want to hang out at home. But it gets easier as the day goes on and some times what is my most difficult day turns out to be my best day. It helps me to imagine how I'd want someone to approach me too. I try to forget about me and concentrate on the person. .

Can you teach a little here? you ask all of them before you take their pictures? What do you say ..."can I take your picture?" with 85mm lens, you probably have to run away again to take their picture once they agree...

I wanted to do that... but I afraid people think I am a pervert... Is so much different if the subject look into your way like you did instead of trying to secretly snap picture of people... will wearing a 'I am a photographer' t-shirt helps?

Lee

outsider · 04-21-2011, 04:04 PM

Originally posted by LFLee

Can you teach a little here? you ask all of them before you take their pictures? What do you say ..."can I take your picture?" with 85mm lens, you probably have to run away again to take their picture once they agree...

I wanted to do that... but I afraid people think I am a pervert... Is so much different if the subject look into your way like you did instead of trying to secretly snap picture of people... will wearing a 'I am a photographer' t-shirt helps?

Lee

1. For most, male and female, I say "Excuse me, you mind if I take your portrait?" For younger people, I modify it to "Hey Guys" or "What's up Guys", for older, I use "Sir", "Maam". My experience is that it's not WHAT you say, but HOW you say it. You know, it is possible to tell someone they look terrible without insulting them. It's how you say it. Of course this would take extraordinary effort and attention to voice control and pitch, facial expression, eye contact, etc., but can be done. I've noticed that if I feel nervous, they too sense it, even though I'm trying to work through it. So i've learned to just approach them without thinking about it, almost like a friendly acquaintence. The fact that I'm using their portrait for a project i'm working on helps me tremendously. This project kind of naturally takes priority as I interact with people, makes my words and interactions more purposeful. They see this sense of purpose and formality and they too become influenced. They know they're doing it for a good reason. They manytimes ask me "why" for the picture and manytimes my humorous, mocking response is "why not" (how often does a young, talented, person like myself ask to take your portrait). I think people do naturally want to know why of everything, especially if it's unexpected. If I weren't working on this project, which at one point I wasn't while still taking strangers photographs, I didn't give them a reason, sometimes they agreed immediately and didn't seem to care. When they did, I told them "I have a new camera I'm testing out". To answer your "what if they think i'm perveted" question, if they agree after thinking you're perverted, then that's just more opportunity for you. I'm am perverted (depending on who you ask), I take more pictures of women because they're more pleasing to my eye than man, they just seem to make slightly better pictures, I like what their hair does when a gust of wind comes and there is some sexual desire there as well. They subconsciously know it. 99.9% of male female interaction has some kind of sexual componet in there somewhere. It's the way it is, only, society seems to ignore this. As long as they're comfortable with it and take the picture, it's not a problem. As far as the equipment you use, the size of the lens, etc., from my experience, doesn't matter. Some people say it does, but as long as they think as such, it will be an issue. What matters is coming forth as honest, well intentioned, pleasant and pleasantly ready to accept rejection if need be. I'm to the point now, where I can sense by looking, who is likely to approve or not. You work with enough of the random public, this is what will happen. It's not long before it becomes more than photography, but raw, quality human interaction. It's very enjoyable, with each favorable encounter you can play around with the psychology of the interaction and just have fun

It's also become much less tense/awkward to ask for a portrait then to take a candid without asking.

outsider · 04-21-2011, 04:21 PM

Originally posted by LFLee

Can you teach a little here? you ask all of them before you take their pictures? What do you say ..."can I take your picture?" with 85mm lens, you probably have to run away again to take their picture once they agree...

I wanted to do that... but I afraid people think I am a pervert... Is so much different if the subject look into your way like you did instead of trying to secretly snap picture of people... will wearing a 'I am a photographer' t-shirt helps?

Lee

There's this woman at work I like. She knows it by now. There's a sexual undercurrent between our exchanges at work. Just ever so slight. It could be something in her eye, or the optimism in my voice or just that unexplainable body language in our interactions that hints to something that we are both aware of. Something so slight, so intimate, perhaps only we are aware of it. We both know what the implications of these subtle interactions are and the associated thoughts deeper within. This is nothing new in the human experience, happens every day. The girl in the store, or the server at the restaurant. What may be awkward, depending on how liberal and open she is, would be to verbalize these things outright. Same with female interactions with subtle s*xual untertones. People are quite aware of what another may be thinking deep inside. As long as things remain subtle, they usually have no problem. It's just one big game you play out as you see fit...

lesmore49 · 04-21-2011, 04:43 PM

I think the imagaes look a bit soft. Don't think it's the cameras as some have suggested. I use an old K10D and a newer KM...both are capable of very sharp pictures...but I always use Pentax lenses.

outsider · 04-21-2011, 05:26 PM

Originally posted by lesmore49

I think the imagaes look a bit soft. Don't think it's the cameras as some have suggested. I use an old K10D and a newer KM...both are capable of very sharp pictures...but I always use Pentax lenses.

They may be "soft" because I shot them at F1.8, then powdered them with Avon before uploading.

04-21-2011, 04:04 PM	#147
outsider Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2011 Photos: Albums Posts: 416 Original Poster	Originally posted by LFLee Can you teach a little here? you ask all of them before you take their pictures? What do you say ..."can I take your picture?" with 85mm lens, you probably have to run away again to take their picture once they agree... I wanted to do that... but I afraid people think I am a pervert... Is so much different if the subject look into your way like you did instead of trying to secretly snap picture of people... will wearing a 'I am a photographer' t-shirt helps? Lee 1. For most, male and female, I say "Excuse me, you mind if I take your portrait?" For younger people, I modify it to "Hey Guys" or "What's up Guys", for older, I use "Sir", "Maam". My experience is that it's not WHAT you say, but HOW you say it. You know, it is possible to tell someone they look terrible without insulting them. It's how you say it. Of course this would take extraordinary effort and attention to voice control and pitch, facial expression, eye contact, etc., but can be done. I've noticed that if I feel nervous, they too sense it, even though I'm trying to work through it. So i've learned to just approach them without thinking about it, almost like a friendly acquaintence. The fact that I'm using their portrait for a project i'm working on helps me tremendously. This project kind of naturally takes priority as I interact with people, makes my words and interactions more purposeful. They see this sense of purpose and formality and they too become influenced. They know they're doing it for a good reason. They manytimes ask me "why" for the picture and manytimes my humorous, mocking response is "why not" (how often does a young, talented, person like myself ask to take your portrait). I think people do naturally want to know why of everything, especially if it's unexpected. If I weren't working on this project, which at one point I wasn't while still taking strangers photographs, I didn't give them a reason, sometimes they agreed immediately and didn't seem to care. When they did, I told them "I have a new camera I'm testing out". To answer your "what if they think i'm perveted" question, if they agree after thinking you're perverted, then that's just more opportunity for you. I'm am perverted (depending on who you ask), I take more pictures of women because they're more pleasing to my eye than man, they just seem to make slightly better pictures, I like what their hair does when a gust of wind comes and there is some sexual desire there as well. They subconsciously know it. 99.9% of male female interaction has some kind of sexual componet in there somewhere. It's the way it is, only, society seems to ignore this. As long as they're comfortable with it and take the picture, it's not a problem. As far as the equipment you use, the size of the lens, etc., from my experience, doesn't matter. Some people say it does, but as long as they think as such, it will be an issue. What matters is coming forth as honest, well intentioned, pleasant and pleasantly ready to accept rejection if need be. I'm to the point now, where I can sense by looking, who is likely to approve or not. You work with enough of the random public, this is what will happen. It's not long before it becomes more than photography, but raw, quality human interaction. It's very enjoyable, with each favorable encounter you can play around with the psychology of the interaction and just have fun It's also become much less tense/awkward to ask for a portrait then to take a candid without asking. Last edited by outsider; 04-21-2011 at 04:09 PM.

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04-20-2011, 11:01 PM	#136
jstevewhite Veteran Member Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Midwest Photos: Gallery Posts: 1,407	Originally posted by outsider Every week, I walk the streets taking pictures of random people. I ask to take their portrait and the approval rate is surprisingly high, but I think it depends on how you approach them. It's a lot of fun because of the variety of faces and expressions and the lighting conditions. My favorite scenario is taking a picture beneath a tree in clear, sunlit sky. You get an interesting pattern on the face that evokes a different emotion each time. Overcast is always a winner too. You don't have to worry about purple fringing and I still have enough shutter speed to get sharp photos and color/emotion of the portrait is more somber/serene. Yeah, that's a talent. I've never had it. I've asked people a few times if I could take their picture, with success rate approaching zero. It's got to be something in my body language or face. I don't feel threatening, but I've had many people tell me they felt that way about me when we first met, although a bit of conversation banishes that perception. (nobody I know thinks I'm threatening - or else they just won't admit it ) Those are some excellent portraits, I think; you've got a "look" going on that's very compelling.

04-21-2011, 07:15 AM	#137
jsherman999 Veteran Member Join Date: Dec 2007 Photos: Gallery Posts: 8,237	. This image just may have sold a Sigma 85 1.4 Not just the incredible sharpness at that aperture, but the smooth transition to OOF and bokeh... Very 3-D. .

04-21-2011, 08:49 AM	#138
Pentaxor Veteran Member Join Date: May 2009 Location: Vancouver, B.C. Photos: Gallery Posts: 6,513	Originally posted by jsherman999 . This image just may have sold a Sigma 85 1.4 Not just the incredible sharpness at that aperture, but the smooth transition to OOF and bokeh... Very 3-D. . I'm considering getting one for another mount since Pentax doesn't have FF to offer, unless I want to use it on film. :ugh:

04-21-2011, 09:39 AM	#139
yusuf Pentaxian Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Palo Alto, CA Photos: Gallery Posts: 2,497	Originally posted by Asahiflex Great series! I'm not entirely convinced about the colors, but that's possibly due to the K-x and not the Sigma. What's wrong with k-x colors?

04-21-2011, 09:56 AM	#140
Asahiflex Pentaxian Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Netherlands Photos: Gallery Posts: 2,795	Originally posted by jsherman999 . This image just may have sold a Sigma 85 1.4 Not just the incredible sharpness at that aperture, but the smooth transition to OOF and bokeh... Very 3-D. I agree. So you'll be getting one for the Nikon?

04-21-2011, 10:01 AM	#141
Asahiflex Pentaxian Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Netherlands Photos: Gallery Posts: 2,795	Originally posted by yusuf What's wrong with k-x colors? It's hard to explain, but I found the default K-x colors a little bit flat and 'digital'. It could be caused by a lot of things, but let's just say that it's my subjective opinion. I plan to purchase a K-x in the future so I'll then be able to see if it's the camera or just me.

04-21-2011, 10:54 AM	#142
jsherman999 Veteran Member Join Date: Dec 2007 Photos: Gallery Posts: 8,237	Originally posted by Asahiflex I agree. So you'll be getting one for the Nikon? I really don't know. I'm one of those weirdos that actually likes the 85mm FL on aps-c, it's a nice short telephoto. Problems is, on Pentax I have the M 85 f/2 and 77ltd already - both pretty hard to beat. On Nikon I have the 85 1.8D. Talk me into it, Peter.

04-21-2011, 10:57 AM	#143
Pentaxor Veteran Member Join Date: May 2009 Location: Vancouver, B.C. Photos: Gallery Posts: 6,513	Originally posted by jsherman999 I really don't know. I'm one of those weirdos that actually likes the 85mm FL on aps-c, it's a nice short telephoto. Problems is, on Pentax I have the M 85 f/2 and 77ltd already - both pretty hard to beat. On Nikon I have the 85 1.8D. Talk me into it, Peter. you dont have f1.4 on both systems.

04-21-2011, 10:58 AM	#144
jstevewhite Veteran Member Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Midwest Photos: Gallery Posts: 1,407	Originally posted by jsherman999 I really don't know. I'm one of those weirdos that actually likes the 85mm FL on aps-c, it's a nice short telephoto. Problems is, on Pentax I have the M 85 f/2 and 77ltd already - both pretty hard to beat. On Nikon I have the 85 1.8D. Talk me into it, Peter. You already have the 85 1.8D? Why would you consider... Well, your money, but sheesh. That's a great lens, and you're only, what, 1/2, 2/3 stops down?

04-21-2011, 02:56 PM	#145
outsider Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2011 Photos: Albums Posts: 416 Original Poster	Originally posted by jstevewhite Yeah, that's a talent. I've never had it. I've asked people a few times if I could take their picture, with success rate approaching zero. It's got to be something in my body language or face. I don't feel threatening, but I've had many people tell me they felt that way about me when we first met, although a bit of conversation banishes that perception. (nobody I know thinks I'm threatening - or else they just won't admit it ) Those are some excellent portraits, I think; you've got a "look" going on that's very compelling. This sort of thing isn't easy, at least for me. I have to mentally prepare myself to approach people with a easygoing, pleasant attitude, which can be difficult as f*ck, especially when you're tired or just want to hang out at home. But it gets easier as the day goes on and some times what is my most difficult day turns out to be my best day. It helps me to imagine how I'd want someone to approach me too. I try to forget about me and concentrate on the person. Of course, depending on where in the world you live, the preconcieved ideas, cliches, prejudices, etc., things may be much easier or more difficult. I just work with what I have until I get what I want. I enjoy failure sometimes almost more than success. It's not until one understands and is comfortable with failure that he becomes a true success. One realizes the potential of his own success when he accepts failure as a part of reality. I accept failure. I don't accept giving up as a result.

04-21-2011, 03:30 PM	#146
LFLee Veteran Member Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: Southern California Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 2,292	Originally posted by outsider This sort of thing isn't easy, at least for me. I have to mentally prepare myself to approach people with a easygoing, pleasant attitude, which can be difficult as f*ck, especially when you're tired or just want to hang out at home. But it gets easier as the day goes on and some times what is my most difficult day turns out to be my best day. It helps me to imagine how I'd want someone to approach me too. I try to forget about me and concentrate on the person. . Can you teach a little here? you ask all of them before you take their pictures? What do you say ..."can I take your picture?" with 85mm lens, you probably have to run away again to take their picture once they agree... I wanted to do that... but I afraid people think I am a pervert... Is so much different if the subject look into your way like you did instead of trying to secretly snap picture of people... will wearing a 'I am a photographer' t-shirt helps? Lee

04-21-2011, 04:21 PM	#148
outsider Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2011 Photos: Albums Posts: 416 Original Poster	Originally posted by LFLee Can you teach a little here? you ask all of them before you take their pictures? What do you say ..."can I take your picture?" with 85mm lens, you probably have to run away again to take their picture once they agree... I wanted to do that... but I afraid people think I am a pervert... Is so much different if the subject look into your way like you did instead of trying to secretly snap picture of people... will wearing a 'I am a photographer' t-shirt helps? Lee There's this woman at work I like. She knows it by now. There's a sexual undercurrent between our exchanges at work. Just ever so slight. It could be something in her eye, or the optimism in my voice or just that unexplainable body language in our interactions that hints to something that we are both aware of. Something so slight, so intimate, perhaps only we are aware of it. We both know what the implications of these subtle interactions are and the associated thoughts deeper within. This is nothing new in the human experience, happens every day. The girl in the store, or the server at the restaurant. What may be awkward, depending on how liberal and open she is, would be to verbalize these things outright. Same with female interactions with subtle s*xual untertones. People are quite aware of what another may be thinking deep inside. As long as things remain subtle, they usually have no problem. It's just one big game you play out as you see fit...

04-21-2011, 04:43 PM	#149
lesmore49 Pentaxian Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Western Canada Posts: 12,344	I think the imagaes look a bit soft. Don't think it's the cameras as some have suggested. I use an old K10D and a newer KM...both are capable of very sharp pictures...but I always use Pentax lenses.

04-21-2011, 05:26 PM	#150
outsider Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2011 Photos: Albums Posts: 416 Original Poster	Originally posted by lesmore49 I think the imagaes look a bit soft. Don't think it's the cameras as some have suggested. I use an old K10D and a newer KM...both are capable of very sharp pictures...but I always use Pentax lenses. They may be "soft" because I shot them at F1.8, then powdered them with Avon before uploading.