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05-20-2012, 09:15 AM   #31
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QuoteOriginally posted by couliseaux Quote
I think Pentax focuses more on repeat business rather than drawing in new clientele. That's where the money is IMO.
A WR camera for new clientele is something new, I believe. The K-x was a phenomenal success for Pentax because it's not just repeat business - colored bodies were something Canikon never made until the 1100D and D3100. They pulled in a lot of new users with the K-x. Aside from more megapixels and more AF points and the regular "faster, bigger" specs Canikon usually offers, an out-of-the-box WR offering - is indeed unique (or perhaps, obnoxiously different, to some). Something Pentax-y... the only prob now is how will this WR camera be marketed better than the K200D was

05-20-2012, 01:51 PM   #32
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Hopefully the non-WR lens kit Adam was talking about is the DA 35, and the others are WR Zooms.

It's one thing to aspire to get a better, more expensive lens with WR. It's another when they ask you to buy the exact same lens, only WR, as the heavy handed marketing implies it should've been from the beginning.
05-20-2012, 01:59 PM   #33
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Only focusing on your current market with no desire to grow marketshare is a surefire way to go out of business. Pentax very much is trying to gain marketshare, with non-traditional initiatives like the rainbow K-x, K-01, and now K30.
05-20-2012, 02:05 PM   #34
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QuoteOriginally posted by Alizarine Quote
Pentax is in a distant 3rd place because Canon and Nikon are so good with their marketing, I believe.
Canon and Nikon consider WR a pro feature and don't market it to consumers at all.

05-20-2012, 02:39 PM   #35
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The simple consumer looking for one of those "big cameras" would probably not find enough value in a complete WR solution to consider it compared to the other options they would see in the store (they don't know any better...). Hence the reason Pentax has to have DA-L kits. Don't the DA-L lenses lack quick-shift and have a plastic mount? I think the same could be said about those features, but it really depends on a person's needs. If they want a given feature they have to pay for it.

Selling a complete WR kit on principle doesn't make sense when you cut out a large chunk of basic big-box-store consumers. To me, it makes sense to give them the option of a WR lens instead of requiring them to buy it. When they buy from places that have no decent service, it's kind of tough luck for them. They really should have gone somewhere that could explain the features and options to them.

At this point we don't even know if there will be a WR kit in the USA or not. If there is, there is a decent chance that all local stores that will eventually stock Pentax DSLRs would only stock those (higher profit maybe). The only thing we know so far is that amazon.co.uk is going to stock the DA-L kits, because Amazon is all about selling at a low cost and expects the consumer to know what they are buying.

Let's take my local camera shop for example:
I don't need or want kit lenses at all. When I decided to get a K-5, I eventually was able to get a good deal at the local shop. The camera he was selling me was from a kit, but he had no issues at all splitting it up. In the USA as of right now, it's a lot easier to get a Pentax from an actual camera shop than a big box store that would probably say: "You don't like the DA-L kit we have, to bad so sad..."

People who buy from a big box store don't know better and are not really the ones who will care about WR, but like I said we don't know what they will be stocking yet. People who buy from camera shops will have no issues because the people there will explain to them everything they need to know. Pentax can't sell a DA WR lens at the price of a DA-L and they are smart enough to give the consumer low cost options for people who don't care about the feature. What Pentax can't do is have two versions of the camera body, so everyone automatically gets weather seals in there.
05-20-2012, 03:15 PM   #36
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The only camera I've owned is a Kr. What does the second dial do?
05-20-2012, 03:50 PM   #37
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QuoteOriginally posted by reivax Quote
The only camera I've owned is a Kr. What does the second dial do?
Depends on the mode and camera in question.

For example (K-5):
P mode: Hyper Program allows the back dial to change aperture and the front to change shutter speed and the camera adjusts the other value for a proper exposure (based on various factors like if you have any exposure compensation set).
TAv: front to change shutter speed, back to change aperture
Manual: front to change shutter speed, back to change aperture
USER: similar to P mode.

In the settings you can do additional changes, but that's the default setup.
05-20-2012, 03:56 PM   #38
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The second dial does everything the first dial doesn't, and a bit more. I will never own a DSLR with only one. When I shoot I do in M or Av modes 99% of the time. In M I've set the front dial to change the shutter speed and the rear dial to adjust the aperture. In Av mode I've programmed the rear dial to control aperture, like in M mode, and the front dial to change exposure compensation. I'm often using both dials for most of my shots outdoors.

05-20-2012, 04:24 PM   #39
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That second dial actually sounds really useful. Great, another reason to obsess over some new gear.
05-20-2012, 06:31 PM - 2 Likes   #40
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QuoteOriginally posted by reivax Quote
That second dial actually sounds really useful. Great, another reason to obsess over some new gear.
I might get reprimanded for posting links to content I've created, but these videos demonstrate it in use. Pros always say don't use Program mode, but they haven't probably used a Pentax before. I use it a lot when I don't want to micro manage my settings so I can focus on composition.

Hyper Program on the K-5:

Hyper Manual on the K-5:
05-20-2012, 07:35 PM   #41
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QuoteOriginally posted by illdefined Quote
Canon and Nikon consider WR a pro feature and don't market it to consumers at all.
That's the question: why pros-only? If Pentax can manage to market WR as a feature that not only professionals need or want (a lot of marketing and advertising actually focuses on making people need the want) and expound on its benefits to the safest extent possible, then like the color-body phenomenon, Pentax can get more market share. A lot of newbies go DSLR because they want to "look pro". In my country Canon itself sells the 1100D (the red...shiny one) with the slogan "look pro without being one"
05-20-2012, 08:07 PM   #42
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QuoteOriginally posted by Alizarine Quote
That's the question: why pros-only? If Pentax can manage to market WR as a feature that not only professionals need or want (a lot of marketing and advertising actually focuses on making people need the want) and expound on its benefits to the safest extent possible, then like the color-body phenomenon, Pentax can get more market share. A lot of newbies go DSLR because they want to "look pro". In my country Canon itself sells the 1100D (the red...shiny one) with the slogan "look pro without being one"
That's exactly the thing, it shouldn't be a pro-only thing. And Pentax is the best brand to bring it to everybody.

The poster above didn't know what the 2nd dial is used for, it certainly never stopped them from taking photos, but rain can and WR is a commonly understood benefit to everybody, not just pros.

Pentax is in a perfect position to gain marketshare by bringing WR to the amateur and enthusiast, in fact they've done more than anybody to do that already. The K30 and the DA WR lenses are the unique means they have to do it, but only if they don't confuse or encumber the consumer with strictly non-WR bundles or misleading/incomplete marketing.
05-20-2012, 08:23 PM   #43
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QuoteOriginally posted by Adam Quote
It's a WR camera, but will be sold together with non-WR lens kits.
I fail to see the logic in that given the 18-55 WR and 18-135 WR are available. Of course I would be more likely to just get a body anyway.
05-20-2012, 08:41 PM   #44
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QuoteOriginally posted by illdefined Quote
Pentax is in a perfect position to gain marketshare by bringing WR to the amateur and enthusiast, in fact they've done more than anybody to do that already. The K30 and the DA WR lenses are the unique means they have to do it, but only if they don't confuse or encumber the consumer with strictly non-WR bundles or misleading/incomplete marketing.
I agree. The DA 18-55 WR is by far the cheapest WR lens out there from any brand. They just have to get the marketing right with the non-WR kit and the WR kit.

To get to WR in Canon I think it has to be an "L" lens first (and not all L lenses are WR too). For Nikon I don't know... they don't seem to put acronyms on their lenses to identify which ones have seals.
05-20-2012, 09:41 PM   #45
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QuoteOriginally posted by reivax Quote
The only camera I've owned is a Kr. What does the second dial do?
I have the front one setup to do aperture and the back one to do shutter speed, for example.
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