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05-20-2012, 09:44 PM   #46
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QuoteOriginally posted by illdefined Quote
The K200D affordable WR concept was a good one, but there is a reason it didn't sell well and was dropped until just now. years later.
They actually sold fairly well. They sold all they made in a short period of time. They introduced the K-m at the tail end of the K200d and discontinued it, and used up those sensors in the K-m. After that came the sensor used in the K-x and K-r. I have been running a K20d and K200d ever since they were released and would probably sell the K20d first.


Last edited by Blue; 05-20-2012 at 09:51 PM.
05-20-2012, 10:04 PM   #47
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If the K30 is going to be the "entry-level" camera that Pentax will offer (for a while), then the WR will probably have little to no effect in gaining new photographers to Pentax.

I started looking into photography last summer. I knew nothing about dslr's. I knew Pentax existed, but I didn't know anything about them other than the fact that they had been around for a long time. I initially looked into buying a Nikon because that's what some people I knew shot with. I then felt uncomfortable buying a Nikon (never owned anything Nikon) and immediately changed my mind and looked into Canon. I had always owned Canon point and shoots, camcorders, printers, etc. so it was a brand I knew and trusted. I had a Canon T3i in the shopping cart and was about to click on purchase when I decided to go through the rounds of making sure I was getting the right camera. I went on review sites and found the Pentax Kr. I read reviews, more reviews, and then some more reviews and thought it sounded like a really great camera.

There were two things that really convinced me to buy a Pentax: 1) Price and 2) ISO capability. Everything else seemed pretty identical to the Canon T3i.

I read about the backwards compatibility with older lenses and that meant nothing to me. It wasn't until months later that I began my LBA. As long as Pentax sticks with the K-mount (one of the biggest incentives for me) and they keep producing great cameras (that's what I consider the Kr and K5) I have no reason to jump ship.

I had also read about the weather sealing of the K5 and thought, "That's cool, but when am I ever going to need that?" It isn't until almost a year later that I can truly understand the benefit of that.

If Pentax wants to gain more ground, they will need to price their cameras lower than Canon and Nikon. The lens pricing issue sucks for us, but I don't think most people really plan on buying anything other than kit lenses. I have a friend that is pretty tech savvy and is nowhere near short on cash. I'm always recommending lenses to him (he bought a Pentax after trying mine out) but he always says to me, "What for? I don't need that." He's happy with the DAL 18-55 and DAL 55-300. He says that's all he needs. My brother who owns a Canon T3i feels the same way. The kit lenses are good enough for him. Not everyone who buys a DSLR wants to take amazing pictures. Some just want a DSLR.

I think the camera price is probably the most important issue for Pentax gaining ground. Why else would anyone want to go with a company where they will struggle to get support for any questions or issues they may have? Not every camera owner wants to spend hours on a message board finding solutions to their problems. Most people just want the quickest route to the solution. All of the other info is irrelevant to them.

The other thing that's going to be really important is marketing. I always get two different reactions from people when they see my camera. The first, and most common, is "Oh, you shoot with Pentax? Why?" Sometimes that is followed with "Was the Canon too expensive?" The second is, "That must be one of those secret brands that only pros know about." While photographers may know who Pentax is, the common every day person has no idea.

I've always loved the "underdog" feeling that comes with shooting with a Pentax. This message board also has that feel to it. I feel Pentax should embrace that. Pentax=Rocky (maybe too much?)
05-20-2012, 10:06 PM   #48
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I remember seeing deeply discounted K200s around the time I got my K20D. It struck me odd that this affordable well-built camera cost signifcantly less than any WR DA* lens it'd take to take advantage of the WR. It didn't surprise me that they didn't try that WR concept again until now with 3 DA WR lenses (including a superzoom) now on the market.
05-21-2012, 09:33 AM   #49
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Rice High has just posted the K-30's specs, which were leaked via this Turkish Pentax forum entry. ...

[Update: Okay, I did a search on this thread and the other K-30 thread for "Rice" and "Turk" and found nothing, so I posted the above links. I guess some of the more detailed the specs were already posted here though. Oh well. Even when I'm careful I still miss something.]


Last edited by Welfl; 05-21-2012 at 10:49 AM.
05-21-2012, 10:15 AM   #50
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keeping them ignorant

QuoteOriginally posted by reivax Quote
If Pentax wants to gain more ground, they will need to price their cameras lower than Canon and Nikon. The lens pricing issue sucks for us, but I don't think most people really plan on buying anything other than kit lenses. I have a friend that is pretty tech savvy and is nowhere near short on cash. I'm always recommending lenses to him (he bought a Pentax after trying mine out) but he always says to me, "What for? I don't need that." He's happy with the DAL 18-55 and DAL 55-300. He says that's all he needs. My brother who owns a Canon T3i feels the same way. The kit lenses are good enough for him. Not everyone who buys a DSLR wants to take amazing pictures. Some just want a DSLR.

I think the camera price is probably the most important issue for Pentax gaining ground. Why else would anyone want to go with a company where they will struggle to get support for any questions or issues they may have? Not every camera owner wants to spend hours on a message board finding solutions to their problems. Most people just want the quickest route to the solution. All of the other info is irrelevant to them.
When comparing apples-to-apples, its going to be impossible to price DSLR bodies lower than competitors who design theirs without image stabilization built into the body (its expensive). If consumers are not educated up front on the merits of things like in-body image stabilization, weather sealing, and other unique features, then there will be less chance for upward progress. Consumers, generally speaking (since I am one of them), are not stupid, they are just ignorant of all the practical choices in actual personal use.

Yesterday, I went into a local dealer where they have the big two + Olympus and Fuji, oh, and a Pentax P&S and the new K-01 (yellow). I asked if they knew about the new Kr replacement to be announced (K30) and they knew nothing about it. I mentioned that it will have many of the features of the K-5 but be cheaper and I would like to see one and thinking of upgrading. Who knows if this dealer will put in the effort to learn how to market this new camera. It **could** be a big seller if someone out there is willing to put in the time and effort to SELL. Pentax also has to do its part.

Bottom line for me is - I really like your story of how you came to buy a camera that is better suited to your needs. It shows how ignorance can be overcome with time and effort. In fact, your journey of learning how different features became more important to you over time is quite revealing! Pentax should study your posting and understand what it would take to overcome your initial ignorance of important feature sets as you progress as a photographer. One could take the transition points that you made during your journey to create a learning module packaged with each new offering from the company and post it in stores, YouTube, Facebook, where ever - all up front at initial purchase.

Finally, I need to mention a Wisconsin-based National Geographic photographer comment made just two weeks ago at a local photography club meeting. He was griping about deficiencies in camera design and one of his biggest complaints was the lack of built-in image stabilization in the camera body. As a professional, he sees the value of such a feature, since it gives him more creative choice in choosing the tools he needs to get the shot for the client, or even just for personal artistic expression. He was careful not to mention any brand names in his talk but people knew who he was talking about.

One good way to expose the public to the PRACTICALITY of Pentax features is to take your camera with you to every public and private photography meeting and talk about it with people in normal conversation and tell stories about a unique feature that saved a poor shot into a keeper. They will understand after awhile....

Anyway, just trying to add some color to your excellent post!

05-21-2012, 10:24 AM   #51
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but if the sellers dont know what is built in shake reduction, or even how shake could affect your image ... we wont win
05-21-2012, 10:32 AM   #52
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This turned up from a Google search:

Newegg.com - PENTAX K-30 Lens Kit (15624) Black 16.3 MP 3.0" 921k LCD Digital SLR with 18-55mm Lens

The release date is July 9th in the United States. The camera kit is priced at $899.95. Newegg is accepting pre-orders.

More notes:

  • D-LI109 battery and D-BH109 battery holder compatibility (inherited from the K-r)
  • 16.3 megapixel sensor (inherited from the K-5)
  • PRIME M image processor and 1080p30 video recording in H.264 format (inherited from the K-01)
  • 6 fps burst shooting, 1/6000s maximum shutter speed
  • 77-segment metering system and 100% pentaprism viewfinder with 0.92x magnification (inherited from the K-5)
  • Interchangable focusing screens (inherited from the K-5)
  • +/- 5 EV exposure compensation (inherited from the K-5)
  • Full weather sealing and coldproof to -10°C (inherited from the K-5)
  • Sensor-shake based Dust Removal (not ultrasonic DR II)
  • Dedicated Sv and TAv positions on the mode dial, plus two User positions (U1 and U2); Green mode now indicated with green "AUTO" lettering
  • No top-plate LCD or dedicated metering switch
  • New SAFOX IXi+ autofocus system with redesigned AF algorithms and AF point expansion; uses diffractive optics
  • Three-frame auto-bracketing (not 5 frames as with the K-5)
  • Accepts cable switch CS-205

--DragonLord

Last edited by bwDraco; 05-21-2012 at 11:10 AM.
05-21-2012, 10:39 AM   #53
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QuoteOriginally posted by DragonLord Quote
The release date is August 9th in the United States
That gray text is difficult to see. It actually says July 9. That is still later than I would prefer (although I remember the K-01 becoming available roughly three weeks before its official launch date).

05-21-2012, 10:39 AM   #54
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July the 9 now
05-21-2012, 10:48 AM   #55
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Release date corrected.

--DragonLord
05-21-2012, 10:50 AM   #56
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This may be my first pre-order ever. I was worried regarding TAv, user mode, pentaprism and cold resistance, but those seem all good. Focus peaking and video compression are interesting. I hope there's a switch for metering.
05-21-2012, 03:51 PM   #57
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QuoteOriginally posted by illdefined Quote
Then why is Pentax in a distant 3rd place in SLRs. some people are content, but the critical mass obviously aren't and buying other brands instead.
Reasons that have absolutely nothing whatsoever to do with WR. I mean, seriously, do you actually believe people would deliberately choose Canon over Pentax because Pentax offers a partially WR kit while Canon offers no WR at all Do you really think people are that stupid? Or just that spiteful? You do realize Pentax offers a body only option, too, so you can decide for yourself what lens to get? I am not understanding what you even perceive to be a problem.
05-21-2012, 04:14 PM   #58
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QuoteOriginally posted by Marc Sabatella Quote
Reasons that have absolutely nothing whatsoever to do with WR. I mean, seriously, do you actually believe people would deliberately choose Canon over Pentax because Pentax offers a partially WR kit while Canon offers no WR at all Do you really think people are that stupid? Or just that spiteful? You do realize Pentax offers a body only option, too, so you can decide for yourself what lens to get? I am not understanding what you even perceive to be a problem.
No, it's due to the failure to communicate a value proposition over the other big two. Just like the general public aren't even aware of the Limited Lens line or other benefits of the brand. Affordable WR is one such value proposition over the big two, singularly held by Pentax that for some reason hasn't been communicated/executed effectively.

The K30 being bundled with non-WR kits is just the latest example of that, if (when) some uniformed customer gets sold one by an uniformed salesperson and breaks it in the rain because that's how it was marketed to them.
05-21-2012, 04:16 PM   #59
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RAw 14 bits & 1/180 s. flash sync for the K30, as seen on Pentax France website:
PENTAX K-30 - Reflex numériques - PENTAX Photo
05-21-2012, 04:18 PM   #60
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Sorry, it's in french, but it's more complete than PF one at this moment :

Type Capteur CMOS avec filtre couleurs primaires
Taille du capteur 23,7 x 15,7mm
Définition totale Environ. 16,49 mégapixels Définition effective Environ. 16,23 mégapixels Photo JPEG: 16M (4928 x 3264), 10M (3936 x 2624),
6M (3072 x 2048), 2M (1728 x 1152 pixels)
4 niveaux de qualité du JPEG (★ bon, ★★ très bon ★★★ excellent ★★★★ Premium)
RAW: 16M (4928 x 3264)
Vidéo Full HD (1920 x 1080p , 16:9, 30/25/24 ips)
HD (1280 x 720p, 16:9,60/50/30/25/24)
VGA (640x480p, 4:3, 30/25/24 ips)
Sensibilité Sensibilité auto, man. (100 à 12800) possibilité ext. 100 à 25600 ISO
Système de stabilisation Par déplacement du capteur (gain de 4 vitesses par rapport à la tenue de l’appareil à main levée)

Nettoyage du capteur Système de nettoyage par vibration (Dust Removal II) et traitement Super-Protect (SP) du capteur
Objectif Monture Baïonnette PENTAX KAF2 Compatibilité Compatible avec les objectifs à baïonnette KAF3, KAF2, KAF, avec le zoom motorisé KAF2
Mise au point Système SAFOX IXi + à détection de phases TTL
Fonctions Points AF: 11 points sélectionnables individuellement, automatiquement ou collimateur central
Modes AF Auto, (single, continu), manuel Assistance AF Assistance LED en basses lumières (flash intégré) Viseur Type Pentaprisme Couverture de champ Environ 100% Grossissement Environ 0,92x (avec objectif FA 50mm F1,4) Dépoli Natural Bright Matte III, interchangeable Correcteur dioptrique Environ -2,5 + 1,5m-1 Ecran Type Couleur LCD 3 pouces (7,6cm diagonale)
Couleur basse température polysilicone TFT, revêtement antireflet
Calibrage de l’écran, verre anti‐rayure
Angle de vue Vision extra‐large 170° horizontalement et verticalement Définition Environ 921 000 points Mode Lecture Affichage une seule vue, ou planche index (jusqu’à 81 images), grossissement 16x avec défilement possible, rotation d’image automatique, calendrier, diaporama, histogramme (histogramme Y et RGB), archivage par dossiers, surbrillance des zones surexposées et sous‐exposées, redimensionnement, recadrage, prévisualisation numérique, écran quadrillé, mire de MAP., enregistrement possible, affichage en temps réel des réglages de la balance des blancs. Obturateur Type Plan focal à contrôle électronique Vitesse Auto et manuel: de 1/6000e à 30 secondes (par incrément de 1/3 IL ou 1/2 IL),
Pose B (dans le mode M) Synchronisation du flash Griffe flash, synchronisation P‐TTL disponible avec flash dédié, système sans fil (piloté par flash intégré) avec flash dédié.
Synchronisation du flash: 1/180 sec, haute vitesse, P‐TTL, sans fil
Exposition Mesures Mesure TTL 77 segments
Choix de mesures multizones, centrale pondérée ou spot Modes Program, Priorité vitesse (Tv), Priorité ouverture (Av), Manuelle (M), Pose B
Mode Auto Picture: sélectionne automatiquement parmi modes: Standard, Portrait, Paysage, Macro, Sport, Portrait Nocturne, Nocturne, Ciel Bleu, Forêt
Modes scène: Portrait, Paysage, Macro, Sport, Portrait nocturne,Coucher de soleil, Ciel Bleu, Forêt, Nocturne, scène nocturne HDR*,Instantané nocturne, Gastronomie, Animal favori, enfants, Mer&Neige, Silhouette, Lumière tamisée,Concert, Musée

Système de mesure TTL de 0 à 22 IL (à 100 ISO avec un objectif 50mm f/1.4) Interaction mise au point / exposition Mémorisation de la valeur d’exposition détectée en appuyant sur le bouton AE‐L Correction ± 5 IL (par incrément de 1/2 ou 1/3 IL)
Bracketing Auto 3 vues Flash Type Flash auto P‐TTL intégré rétractable à contrôle en série (RTF) Nombre guide Nombre guide de 12 environ (à 100 ISO /m) Modes P-TTL, manuel (on/off), réduction yeux rouges, synchro lente,synchro 2e rideau, synchro haute vitesse, et synchro sans fil avec un flash externe PENTAX compatible
Couverture angulaire Objectif grand‐angle (équivalent 28 mm en 35 mm) Correction d'exposition + / ‐ 2IL ou + / ‐ 1IL (par incrément de 1/2 IL) Parametres d'exposition Modes de prises de vue Vue par vue, retardateur (2 ou 12 secondes), rafale* (rapide / lente), télécommande (0, 3 sec ou en continu), intervallomètre jusqu’à 999 images, Bracketing (3 vues)

* Rafale : cadence rapide : environ 6 ips sur 30vues en JPEG (3 étoiles) / 8 ips en RAW
cadence lente : environ 3 ips jusqu'à ce que la carte soit pleine en JPEG
(3 étoiles) /jusqu'à 10 vues en RAW
Balance des blancs Auto, lumière du jour, ombre, nuageux, fluorescent (blanc, jour, neutre, L) tungstène, flash, manuelle, CTE. Filtres numériques photos créatives, rétro, contraste élevé (HDR Auto, standard, fort 1‐3, automatique, correction de la composition ), extraction couleur, doux, scintillement, fish eye, personnalisé Video Enregistrement Full HD: (1920 x 1080p , 16:9, 30/25/24 ips),
HDTV: (1280 x 720p, 16:9, 60/50/30/25/24 ips)
VGA: (640x480p , 4:3, 30/25/24 ips)

Niveaux de qualité ★ bon, ★★ très bon, ★★★ excellent Fonctions Montage vidéo disponible Mode Lecture Filtres numériques photos créatives, rétro, contraste élevé, extraction couleur, aquarelle, pastel, miniature, monochrome, couleur, doux, scintillement, fish‐eye, filtre étirement, HDR Support Memoire Compatible cartes Compatible cartes SD, SDHC et SDXC Format de fichier Format d'images :
RAW 14 bits (PEF, DNG), JPEG (Exif 2.21), DCF 2.0
RAW et JPEG (enregistrement simultané disponible)
Définition de l’image JPEG: 16M (4928 x 3264), 10M (3936 x 2624), 6M (3072 x 2048), 2M (1728 x 1152 pixels)
4 niveaux de qualité du JPEG (★ bon, ★★ très bon ★★★ excellent ★★★★ Premium)
RAW: 16M (4928 x 3264)
Espace couleur: sRGB, Adobe RGB

Vidéo:

AVI (Motion JPEG) Nom de fichier Date (100_MMDD…), PENTX (100PENTX...) Autres Particularites Particularities
  • Horloge mondiale: 75 villes, 28 fuseaux horaires
  • Filtres numériques (mode lecture): photos créatives, rétro, contraste élevé, extraction couleur, aquarelle, pastel, miniature, monochrome, couleur, doux, scintillement, fish‐eye, filtre étirement, HDR)
  • Boutons de personnalisation: 23 fonctions personnalisables
  • Autres: niveau automatique, ajustement de la composition (vertical et horizontal ± 1,5 mm), redimensionnement, recadrage (Aspect altération, Index, traitement vidéo), possibilité de nommer les fichiers (chiffres et / ou lettres)
Langues Anglais, français, allemand, portugais, espagnol; italien, néerlandais, danois, suédois, finlandais, polonais, tchèque, hongrois, turque, grec, russe, coréen chinois (simplifié et traditionnel), japonais. Interfaces Interface Sortie vidéo: sortie AV, compatible avec NTSC and PAL
USB 2.0 mini‐B (haute vitesse) Alimentation Compatible Livré avec : Batterie rechargeable Lithium‐ion D‐LI109
Autonomie Environ. 410 vues avec 50% au flash, 480 sans le flash et 270 min en mode vidéo avec la batterie D‐LI109*

*Capacité d'enregistrement de prises de vue approximative démontrée lors des tests CIPA-compliant. Les performances peuvent varier en fonction des réglages pré-définis. Dimensions et poids Hauteur 96.5mm Largeur 128.5mm Epaisseur 71.5mm Poids 590 g boîtier nu, 655 g chargé et prêt à l’emploi avec batterie Li‐on et carte SD. Systemes d'exploitation Sur PC Windows XP SP2, VistaTM et 7 Sur Mac OS X 10.3.9 ou plus récent Accessoires Logiciel inclus PENTAX Digital Camera Utility 4 Contenu du kit Câble AV, câble USB, batterie Li-ion D-LI109, chargeur de batterie D-BC109, cordon AC, Courroie, Oeilleton FR et cache-oculaire ME, cache-griffe flash, bouchon de boîtier, bouchon prise synchro flash, attache-courroie métal, bouchon (dessous de boîtier), Logiciel
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