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05-23-2012, 06:52 AM   #46
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QuoteOriginally posted by eddie1960 Quote
Speed is not the only parameter to be concerned with, so is accuracy. In a test last year the Pentax K5 was more accurate with a higher keepr rate than the D700 or the 7D (can't find the link but it was a thread here - a european magazine test)
I know, I've seen it. But I've also seen another test in which one of them - I believe it was Nikon - trumped Pentax for AF accuracy...

QuoteOriginally posted by eddie1960 Quote
that being said Nikon is very fast to focus and lock, but for me since i don't shoot fast sports accuracy is equally as important. I'm not saying Pentax' AF is the best because it's not, but it has improved dramatically in the last few years, I just need to use my K10 or ds to see that.
I'm not sure they will ever match the speed of Nikon because they aren't currently anyway developing cameras for the pro sports shooters which is where those advances are developed for.
BTW AF if generally faster on FF cameras so the real comparison is D7000 or D300 versus a K5 not a D700
I don't shoot sports either, but I still think a faster AF might help me capture some shots better.

QuoteOriginally posted by eddie1960 Quote
I'm with you in that it daoesn;t really matter to me what brand is on my system (I've owned most brands at one point or another and still shoot film with several brands but Digital I'm vested in Pentax so switching is an expensive proposition)
Switching is also kind of expensive for me, but I'm trying to sell some of my lenses anyway now, because I have too many.

I'm not saying I will jump ship - I don't have to. But I also don't have to stay with Pentax. And people saying "it's now almost as good as the competition" makes me consider it.

05-23-2012, 06:53 AM   #47
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The fact that the K-30 supports AF point expansion:

QuoteQuote:
A new select-area expansion function allows the sensor module to continue to track a moving subject, even when it moves out of a pre-assigned auto-tracking area, by assessing distance data collected by neighboring focus sensors.
...and that the AF algorithms are greatly reworked for significant improvement in subject tracking speed and accuracy strongly suggests that the SAFOX IXi+ AF system has a level of "intelligence" that exceeds that of previous Pentax AF systems. Do any of these improvements imply a degree of predictive tracking capability? I certainly believe so, but does anyone else agree or disagree with this statement?

--DragonLord
05-23-2012, 07:00 AM   #48
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QuoteOriginally posted by DragonLord Quote
The fact that the K-30 supports AF point expansion:



...and that the AF algorithms are greatly reworked for significant improvement in subject tracking speed and accuracy strongly suggests that the SAFOX IXi+ AF system has a level of "intelligence" that exceeds that of previous Pentax AF systems. Do any of these improvements imply a degree of predictive tracking capability? I certainly believe so, but does anyone else agree or disagree with this statement?

--DragonLord
this is one of those things that specs are nice but i'll wait to see real world tests. Like i mentioned previously I think the AF system has improved dramatically in the last 5 years, there is still area for improvement. Some of that improvement needs to come in the lenses themselves. SDM apparently is pretty slow on some lenses (like the 55) and that signals a need for a stronger faster motor in the lens
the HSM 70-200 Sigma OTOH is apparently very fast to focus (has to be I guess since it competes head to head with the Canon and Nikon lenses in those mounts)
05-23-2012, 07:04 AM   #49
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QuoteOriginally posted by TOUGEFC Quote
Thats the funniest thing Ive heard all week!
I'd love to respond to that Simon.. ;-)

05-23-2012, 07:06 AM   #50
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QuoteOriginally posted by DragonLord Quote
The fact that the K-30 supports AF point expansion:



...and that the AF algorithms are greatly reworked for significant improvement in subject tracking speed and accuracy strongly suggests that the SAFOX IXi+ AF system has a level of "intelligence" that exceeds that of previous Pentax AF systems. Do any of these improvements imply a degree of predictive tracking capability? I certainly believe so, but does anyone else agree or disagree with this statement?

--DragonLord
I would have to agree thats a reasonable assumption.
In a way its the same thing as I was saying in another post. I believe it will put it bang on par, Poss as you say, even better than canikon. This will be a huge improvement for sure. The fact still remains in my eyes though it will still stay very much the underdog until it reduces the dinnerplate sized sensors.
The K30 seems set as entry level. Given the amount of work introduced into this camera gives me a lot of hope for the new K5 etc. This would follow canikon trends too.
The D7000 focus system is totaly outdone with the D300 D700 etc. If this is the case and does indeed happen, there is going be some rather happy pentaxians knocking about lol
05-23-2012, 07:07 AM   #51
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QuoteOriginally posted by eddie1960 Quote
this is one of those things that specs are nice but i'll wait to see real world tests. Like i mentioned previously I think the AF system has improved dramatically in the last 5 years, there is still area for improvement. Some of that improvement needs to come in the lenses themselves. SDM apparently is pretty slow on some lenses (like the 55) and that signals a need for a stronger faster motor in the lens
the HSM 70-200 Sigma OTOH is apparently very fast to focus (has to be I guess since it competes head to head with the Canon and Nikon lenses in those mounts)
I must have a dud DA*55 because mine focuses really fast, way faster than the Nikon 50/1.4G I had on my D800E for a week. It's also sharper.

The DA*50-135 is slow.. so slow that when I got mine back from repairs I wondered if the AF was actually working at all.
05-23-2012, 07:23 AM   #52
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QuoteOriginally posted by bossa Quote
I must have a dud DA*55 because mine focuses really fast, way faster than the Nikon 50/1.4G I had on my D800E for a week. It's also sharper.

The DA*50-135 is slow.. so slow that when I got mine back from repairs I wondered if the AF was actually working at all.
I wasn't knocking the 55 everything i've seen from the lens has impressed me. I thought it was the 55 i'd read speed complaints on, but it was likely the 50-135 - which of the 2 is the one that needs to be fastest.
I've read universally good things about the Sigma HSM models on Pentax though. If I still used zooms a lot I would likely upgrade my current ones to the HSM models, but i've changed my shooting style a fair bit lately and feel less need
05-23-2012, 07:34 AM   #53
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QuoteOriginally posted by eddie1960 Quote
I wasn't knocking the 55 everything i've seen from the lens has impressed me. I thought it was the 55 i'd read speed complaints on, but it was likely the 50-135 - which of the 2 is the one that needs to be fastest.
I've read universally good things about the Sigma HSM models on Pentax though. If I still used zooms a lot I would likely upgrade my current ones to the HSM models, but i've changed my shooting style a fair bit lately and feel less need
Don't take me the wrong way as I was responding to that general remark flying around that the DA55 is a slow focus. It may not be blindingly fast but it's not slow either. This Sigma 50 I have now on the D800E jumps around a bit and doesn't really give confidence that it has settled on a focus 1/2 the time. Focus seems to work ok it's just that even when the camera is still and you've focused if you let go of the shutter button and 1/2 press it again it tends to refocus.. makes you wonder if it got it wrong the 1st time.

05-23-2012, 07:58 AM   #54
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QuoteOriginally posted by DragonLord Quote
The fact that the K-30 supports AF point expansion:



...and that the AF algorithms are greatly reworked for significant improvement in subject tracking speed and accuracy strongly suggests that the SAFOX IXi+ AF system has a level of "intelligence" that exceeds that of previous Pentax AF systems. Do any of these improvements imply a degree of predictive tracking capability? I certainly believe so, but does anyone else agree or disagree with this statement?

--DragonLord
It's definitely a step in the right direction, but predictive tracking across the frame relies heavily on the number of AF points. On that alone Pentax falls well short. The virtues of Pentax are many, but action AF is simply not one of them.
05-23-2012, 08:06 AM   #55
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QuoteOriginally posted by bossa Quote
I must have a dud DA*55 because mine focuses really fast, way faster than the Nikon 50/1.4G I had on my D800E for a week. It's also sharper.
man, I've heard so many good things about this lens. I really wish Pentax would make another DA* prime, of 30mm or shorter. The concept of a weather sealed lens at a traditional portrait focal length is intriguing, but rather limiting for the street/walkabout.
05-23-2012, 08:20 AM   #56
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QuoteOriginally posted by eddie1960 Quote
Speed is not the only parameter to be concerned with, so is accuracy. In a test last year the Pentax K5 was more accurate with a higher keepr rate than the D700 or the 7D (can't find the link but it was a thread here - a european magazine test)
that being said Nikon is very fast to focus and lock, but for me since i don't shoot fast sports accuracy is equally as important. I'm not saying Pentax' AF is the best because it's not, but it has improved dramatically in the last few years, I just need to use my K10 or ds to see that.
I'm not sure they will ever match the speed of Nikon because they aren't currently anyway developing cameras for the pro sports shooters which is where those advances are developed for.
BTW AF if generally faster on FF cameras so the real comparison is D7000 or D300 versus a K5 not a D700

I'm with you in that it doesn;t really matter to me what brand is on my system (I've owned most brands at one point or another and still shoot film with several brands but Digital I'm vested in Pentax so switching is an expensive proposition)

BTW that article is useless in modern terms, the K10 is painfully slow compared to my K7 and my K7 is slower than a K5

That study directly contradicts my experience. The D700 is faster and more accurate in AF than the K-5, for both moving and static targets. The difference is larger for moving targets, of course.

"Sports" AF can help with a lot of situations, BIF/wildlife, photographing kids, etc. Or just simply catching that certain expression on someones face before it goes away 0.5 seconds later.

The D300s and D700 share the same AF module.
05-23-2012, 08:33 AM   #57
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QuoteOriginally posted by illdefined Quote
It's definitely a step in the right direction, but predictive tracking across the frame relies heavily on the number of AF points. On that alone Pentax falls well short. The virtues of Pentax are many, but action AF is simply not one of them.
agreed more points will make it more effective at tracking focus. Nikon excels at this. Apples to apples though a Canon T4i and the K-30 will both be 9 crosshair points, it's more an issue on the k3 and higher models. the D5100 is 11 point with only 1 crosshair though the 3d tracking is very good

All that being said the K-30 seems like it will stack up well to canikon it competes with. If there are not additional improvements in the K3 or the FF they will not stack up to their comp set (D7000 has the 9 cross points but has 39 points for instance)
05-23-2012, 09:21 AM   #58
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I shoot a good bit of concert and event work here in Nashville. F/2.0 is pretty much my go to aperture inside venues. With the Sigma 50mm f/1.4 or the Sigma 85mm f/1.4 the DoF is so narrow that being off just a little bit makes the photo worthless. The high contrast of the microphone is a magnet for the large center AF point. Even when the microphone is outside of the center circle the AF point grabs it.

I don't care if my next camera only has 1 AF points as long is it is 1/4 the size of the current and accurate. I really don't have issues with the current speed of the K-5 and the Sigma HSM lenses. With HSM lenses the K-5 is very fast.
05-23-2012, 10:18 AM   #59
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QuoteOriginally posted by Winder Quote
I shoot a good bit of concert and event work here in Nashville. F/2.0 is pretty much my go to aperture inside venues. With the Sigma 50mm f/1.4 or the Sigma 85mm f/1.4 the DoF is so narrow that being off just a little bit makes the photo worthless. The high contrast of the microphone is a magnet for the large center AF point. Even when the microphone is outside of the center circle the AF point grabs it.

I don't care if my next camera only has 1 AF points as long is it is 1/4 the size of the current and accurate. I really don't have issues with the current speed of the K-5 and the Sigma HSM lenses. With HSM lenses the K-5 is very fast.
the microphone is a massive PITA, it's a problem with CIF on MF too because it catches it (CIF uses the center point ),
05-23-2012, 10:48 AM   #60
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QuoteOriginally posted by bossa Quote
I'd love to respond to that Simon.. ;-)
I was about to congratulate you for not once commenting in a thread that you had a Nikon D800E

QuoteOriginally posted by bossa Quote
I must have a dud DA*55 because mine focuses really fast, way faster than the Nikon 50/1.4G I had on my D800E for a week. It's also sharper.
QuoteOriginally posted by bossa Quote
This Sigma 50 I have now on the D800E jumps around a bit and doesn't really give confidence that it has settled on a focus 1/2 the time.
But then I decided not to.
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