Will the Pentax K-30's AF rival that of Canikon?

Edvinas · 05-24-2012, 04:55 AM - **1 Like**

Originally posted by Macario

Actually, there has been a thorough test (and it was posted here) about AF accuracy. and the K-5 was the most accurate (not fastest) of the camera's (and yes, they had taken Nikon and Canon camera's too in the test). Just don't know anymore where it was done.

Unfortunately my personal experience is different. K-5 is both slower and definitely less accurate then my Nikons. In fact, my biggest complaint about Pentax AF isn't its speed, but it's accuracy.

Sandy Hancock · 05-24-2012, 05:21 AM

Originally posted by bossa

Hehe.. are you Shure?

Almost every vocalist I recorded required millions of hours of PP using auto-tune or Cubase note by note fixes so I gave up recording other people's music. (a couple of months ago now)

Yes. I'm sure. I have seen *many* vocalists live who are every bit as good RAW as they are post-processed. Much better than I can photograph them. Regina Spektor is the most spectacular example, but there are many others.
The ones who can't hold it up live aren't worth a cracker. Florence Welch - I'm talking to you.

yusuf · 05-24-2012, 05:31 AM

Originally posted by twitch

In my experience the Safox upgrade between the 11 point AF in the K-x to the 11 point AF in the K-5 was minimal....

Based on what I read, I thought k-x to k-5 AF has improved a lot.

jmg257 · 05-24-2012, 05:35 AM

Originally posted by DragonLord

Aren't all the patents on technologies related to Pentax photographic equipment transferred during the Pentax-Ricoh acquisition?

--DragonLord

I don't know. I hope so - because Hoya has gotten A LOT of Patents issued in the last couple years related to cameras...considering how long it takes to get a patent issued, wouldn't be hard to think these were related to Pentax. One is for butch looking AF module with and array using 5x9 line sensors with partial areas.

Quote:

by "faster AF" does it mean how fast and accurate the AF system takes to focus on the right subject? Because I just thought, if a "faster" AF system actually drives the screw mechanism faster than older AF software can...

Focusing on the right subject seems, to me, to be the biggest issue. For most, I think that would mean having more precise control over what they want the AF to focus on, which would mean smaller AF sensors. AF-C is an issue also, so it seems more AF sensors would be needed and better tracking algorithms. I don't feel the current sensors aren't sensitive enough - they seem to be able to lock in on just the slightest contrast, and reportedly in the EV ranges they are supposed to.

Anyway, gotta figure more sensors and more brains need yet more processing power (speed) to resolve all the intergral operations for all the sensor areas.

Once the (correct) defocus amount is figured, then it IS a matter of motor speed and control and precision. New AF/SDM/DC motors could help, tighter servo loops, less build slop, etc. See a few patents for that type of stuff too, so who knows!

Last edited by jmg257; 05-24-2012 at 10:24 AM.

Clavius · 05-24-2012, 05:44 AM

Originally posted by Edvinas

Unfortunately my personal experience is different. K-5 is both slower and definitely less accurate then my Nikons. In fact, my biggest complaint about Pentax AF isn't its speed, but it's accuracy.

I think Macario was referring to this test/thread: https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/pentax-news-rumors/154373-pentax-k-5-exce...ocus-test.html

Personally, I never understood what's wrong with the Pentax AF system. It has the same hickups as the other brands. I think it's a case of a little "the grass is greener on the other side" mixed with PEBC.

eddie1960 · 05-24-2012, 05:49 AM

you make a good point AF speed is a function of the lens now as well. SDM (in the zooms particularly) is not fast enough and that is a function of the lens motor. compared to the ds and the k10 the screw drive on the k7(and i assume the k5) is ridiculously fast IMO.
For me it is accuracy that is the issue sometimes. the Center point is very large and will pick the wrong subject sometimes. more smaller points can address this but that is not likely to appear in a K-30 level camera.

eddie1960 · 05-24-2012, 05:53 AM

Originally posted by Clavius

I think Macario was referring to this test/thread: https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/pentax-news-rumors/154373-pentax-k-5-exce...ocus-test.html

Personally, I never understood what's wrong with the Pentax AF system. It has the same hickups as the other brands. I think it's a case of a little "the grass is greener on the other side" mixed with PEBC.

agreed (and thanks for that link i was trying to find it yesterday)

It's easy for the grass to be greener on the other side sometimes, but you need to look apples to apples. at this price point the K30 is the only 11 point 9 crosshair AF, so in a lab shootout like the one in the magazine where it is tested in a controlled duplicatable scenario the K30 should outdo it comp set. Put it against a D4 and I'm pretty certain it loses

yusuf · 05-24-2012, 07:00 AM

Originally posted by Edvinas

Unfortunately my personal experience is different. K-5 is both slower and definitely less accurate then my Nikons. In fact, my biggest complaint about Pentax AF isn't its speed, but it's accuracy.

If you are using smaller lenses, try disabling SR and see if it improves.

**jpzk** · 05-24-2012, 07:05 AM

I find this sort of thread regarding AF is always interesting because of the type of photography I do: wildlife/BIF/ 90% of the time.

So, for me, acurate and fast AF is a must, not just something I "want" but something I need.

Several members here mention that they have often missed a few (several?) "would-be-great" shots because of the Pentax AF performance(s).
I agree with them. I have owned a K10D, K20D, K7 and now a K5 ... there has definitely been some improvement over the years but never to the point of being 100% satisfied.

I am overall pleased with the K5 performance(s) but I also wish for a more acurate AF system.

I am only hoping that the improved K-30 AF system will percolate to the "K-3" (when that happens) with even more improvement.

JP

Anvh · 05-24-2012, 09:32 AM

Originally posted by jpzk

I am only hoping that the improved K-30 AF system will percolate to the "K-3" (when that happens) with even more improvement.

JP

And you know for a fact that the K30 AF is better?

Fun all this speculating =]

eddie1960 · 05-24-2012, 09:57 AM

Originally posted by Anvh

And you know for a fact that the K30 AF is better?

Fun all this speculating =]

isn't it, personally i would hope that the k-30 af becomes the entry af and a newer af with more points comes along in the k-3 or lxd

Anvh · 05-24-2012, 10:15 AM

More points means the points get smaller and gather less light so they dont preform well with low light.

I think 11 points is enough for most, it surely is enough for me, i can do with 5 points...

aurele · 05-24-2012, 10:18 AM

Originally posted by eddie1960

isn't it, personally i would hope that the k-30 af becomes the entry af and a newer af with more points comes along in the k-3 or lxd

the size of the AF point is probably the key for a better AF. smaller area, to cover, easier to focus

ok, maybe not, but at least user know precisely where is done the focus.

westmill · 05-24-2012, 10:53 AM

My personal opinion on the K5 is that it has 3 major flaws that prevents a good camera from being the best APSC money can buy. One..... Flash accuracy Two..... Low light focus
and Three.... Focus points the size of dinner plates.
My gut feeling says the first two flaws will be fixed in the K30.
Plus all follow up models of course.
This just leaves the size of the focus sensors.
I dont know about you guys, but Ive a good feeling here.
The K30 is entry level and yet its having some nice new tech put into it.
This bodes well for the top end line. If there was ever a time for pentax to make the break, surley its gotta be now !

eddie1960 · 05-24-2012, 11:04 AM

Originally posted by aurele

the size of the AF point is probably the key for a better AF. smaller area, to cover, easier to focus

ok, maybe not, but at least user know precisely where is done the focus.

more points = smaller points, they can be off a fair bit on faster lenses

center point is particularly bad. the higher end nikon setup is quite nice. I think the K-30 looks to be the equal or better of the low end systems (though only proper tests will tell)

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05-24-2012, 04:55 AM - 1 Like	#76
Edvinas Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Kaunas Posts: 1,458	Originally posted by Macario Actually, there has been a thorough test (and it was posted here) about AF accuracy. and the K-5 was the most accurate (not fastest) of the camera's (and yes, they had taken Nikon and Canon camera's too in the test). Just don't know anymore where it was done. Unfortunately my personal experience is different. K-5 is both slower and definitely less accurate then my Nikons. In fact, my biggest complaint about Pentax AF isn't its speed, but it's accuracy.

05-24-2012, 05:21 AM	#77
Sandy Hancock Moderator Site Supporter Join Date: Feb 2012 Location: Adelaide Hills, South Australia Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 11,272	Originally posted by bossa Hehe.. are you Shure? Almost every vocalist I recorded required millions of hours of PP using auto-tune or Cubase note by note fixes so I gave up recording other people's music. (a couple of months ago now) Yes. I'm sure. I have seen many vocalists live who are every bit as good RAW as they are post-processed. Much better than I can photograph them. Regina Spektor is the most spectacular example, but there are many others. The ones who can't hold it up live aren't worth a cracker. Florence Welch - I'm talking to you.

05-24-2012, 05:31 AM	#78
yusuf Pentaxian Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Palo Alto, CA Photos: Gallery Posts: 2,497	Originally posted by twitch In my experience the Safox upgrade between the 11 point AF in the K-x to the 11 point AF in the K-5 was minimal.... Based on what I read, I thought k-x to k-5 AF has improved a lot.

05-24-2012, 05:35 AM	#79
jmg257 Inactive Account Join Date: Jan 2012 Posts: 202	Originally posted by DragonLord Aren't all the patents on technologies related to Pentax photographic equipment transferred during the Pentax-Ricoh acquisition? --DragonLord I don't know. I hope so - because Hoya has gotten A LOT of Patents issued in the last couple years related to cameras...considering how long it takes to get a patent issued, wouldn't be hard to think these were related to Pentax. One is for butch looking AF module with and array using 5x9 line sensors with partial areas. Quote: by "faster AF" does it mean how fast and accurate the AF system takes to focus on the right subject? Because I just thought, if a "faster" AF system actually drives the screw mechanism faster than older AF software can... Focusing on the right subject seems, to me, to be the biggest issue. For most, I think that would mean having more precise control over what they want the AF to focus on, which would mean smaller AF sensors. AF-C is an issue also, so it seems more AF sensors would be needed and better tracking algorithms. I don't feel the current sensors aren't sensitive enough - they seem to be able to lock in on just the slightest contrast, and reportedly in the EV ranges they are supposed to. Anyway, gotta figure more sensors and more brains need yet more processing power (speed) to resolve all the intergral operations for all the sensor areas. Once the (correct) defocus amount is figured, then it IS a matter of motor speed and control and precision. New AF/SDM/DC motors could help, tighter servo loops, less build slop, etc. See a few patents for that type of stuff too, so who knows! Last edited by jmg257; 05-24-2012 at 10:24 AM.

05-24-2012, 05:44 AM	#80
Clavius Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2011 Location: De Klundert Photos: Gallery Posts: 4,150	Originally posted by Edvinas Unfortunately my personal experience is different. K-5 is both slower and definitely less accurate then my Nikons. In fact, my biggest complaint about Pentax AF isn't its speed, but it's accuracy. I think Macario was referring to this test/thread: https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/pentax-news-rumors/154373-pentax-k-5-exce...ocus-test.html Personally, I never understood what's wrong with the Pentax AF system. It has the same hickups as the other brands. I think it's a case of a little "the grass is greener on the other side" mixed with PEBC.

05-24-2012, 05:49 AM	#81
eddie1960 Veteran Member Join Date: Aug 2010 Location: Toronto Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 13,666	you make a good point AF speed is a function of the lens now as well. SDM (in the zooms particularly) is not fast enough and that is a function of the lens motor. compared to the ds and the k10 the screw drive on the k7(and i assume the k5) is ridiculously fast IMO. For me it is accuracy that is the issue sometimes. the Center point is very large and will pick the wrong subject sometimes. more smaller points can address this but that is not likely to appear in a K-30 level camera.

05-24-2012, 05:53 AM	#82
eddie1960 Veteran Member Join Date: Aug 2010 Location: Toronto Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 13,666	Originally posted by Clavius I think Macario was referring to this test/thread: https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/pentax-news-rumors/154373-pentax-k-5-exce...ocus-test.html Personally, I never understood what's wrong with the Pentax AF system. It has the same hickups as the other brands. I think it's a case of a little "the grass is greener on the other side" mixed with PEBC. agreed (and thanks for that link i was trying to find it yesterday) It's easy for the grass to be greener on the other side sometimes, but you need to look apples to apples. at this price point the K30 is the only 11 point 9 crosshair AF, so in a lab shootout like the one in the magazine where it is tested in a controlled duplicatable scenario the K30 should outdo it comp set. Put it against a D4 and I'm pretty certain it loses

05-24-2012, 07:00 AM	#83
yusuf Pentaxian Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Palo Alto, CA Photos: Gallery Posts: 2,497	Originally posted by Edvinas Unfortunately my personal experience is different. K-5 is both slower and definitely less accurate then my Nikons. In fact, my biggest complaint about Pentax AF isn't its speed, but it's accuracy. If you are using smaller lenses, try disabling SR and see if it improves.

05-24-2012, 07:05 AM	#84
jpzk Site Supporter Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Québec Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 8,251	I find this sort of thread regarding AF is always interesting because of the type of photography I do: wildlife/BIF/ 90% of the time. So, for me, acurate and fast AF is a must, not just something I "want" but something I need. Several members here mention that they have often missed a few (several?) "would-be-great" shots because of the Pentax AF performance(s). I agree with them. I have owned a K10D, K20D, K7 and now a K5 ... there has definitely been some improvement over the years but never to the point of being 100% satisfied. I am overall pleased with the K5 performance(s) but I also wish for a more acurate AF system. I am only hoping that the improved K-30 AF system will percolate to the "K-3" (when that happens) with even more improvement. JP

05-24-2012, 09:32 AM	#85
Anvh Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2011 Posts: 4,616	Originally posted by jpzk I am only hoping that the improved K-30 AF system will percolate to the "K-3" (when that happens) with even more improvement. JP And you know for a fact that the K30 AF is better? Fun all this speculating =]

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05-24-2012, 09:57 AM	#86
eddie1960 Veteran Member Join Date: Aug 2010 Location: Toronto Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 13,666	Originally posted by Anvh And you know for a fact that the K30 AF is better? Fun all this speculating =] isn't it, personally i would hope that the k-30 af becomes the entry af and a newer af with more points comes along in the k-3 or lxd

05-24-2012, 10:15 AM	#87
Anvh Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2011 Posts: 4,616	More points means the points get smaller and gather less light so they dont preform well with low light. I think 11 points is enough for most, it surely is enough for me, i can do with 5 points...

05-24-2012, 10:18 AM	#88
aurele Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2011 Location: Paris, France Photos: Albums Posts: 3,217	Originally posted by eddie1960 isn't it, personally i would hope that the k-30 af becomes the entry af and a newer af with more points comes along in the k-3 or lxd the size of the AF point is probably the key for a better AF. smaller area, to cover, easier to focus ok, maybe not, but at least user know precisely where is done the focus.

05-24-2012, 10:53 AM	#89
westmill Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2012 Location: Stoke on Trent Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 1,146	My personal opinion on the K5 is that it has 3 major flaws that prevents a good camera from being the best APSC money can buy. One..... Flash accuracy Two..... Low light focus and Three.... Focus points the size of dinner plates. My gut feeling says the first two flaws will be fixed in the K30. Plus all follow up models of course. This just leaves the size of the focus sensors. I dont know about you guys, but Ive a good feeling here. The K30 is entry level and yet its having some nice new tech put into it. This bodes well for the top end line. If there was ever a time for pentax to make the break, surley its gotta be now !

05-24-2012, 11:04 AM	#90
eddie1960 Veteran Member Join Date: Aug 2010 Location: Toronto Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 13,666	Originally posted by aurele the size of the AF point is probably the key for a better AF. smaller area, to cover, easier to focus ok, maybe not, but at least user know precisely where is done the focus. more points = smaller points, they can be off a fair bit on faster lenses center point is particularly bad. the higher end nikon setup is quite nice. I think the K-30 looks to be the equal or better of the low end systems (though only proper tests will tell)