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05-24-2012, 11:43 AM   #91
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QuoteOriginally posted by eddie1960 Quote
more points = smaller points, they can be off a fair bit on faster lenses

center point is particularly bad. the higher end nikon setup is quite nice.
Can you explain this? What makes small sensors (& center?) subject to being off re:faster lenses?

05-24-2012, 11:49 AM - 1 Like   #92
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QuoteOriginally posted by Anvh Quote
More points means the points get smaller and gather less light so they dont preform well with low light.

I think 11 points is enough for most, it surely is enough for me, i can do with 5 points...
Maybe you can, Stefan but there are a lot of people here that like to shoot wildlife, birds or other fast moving stuff . Remember the DA560mm on the roadmap for the end of this year. A 300mm+ tele has been something a lot of guys wished for over many years and it will not make sense if the AF still sucks.

From my pov: AF-c is still too unpredictable in case of BIF or small moving stuff so it`s useless to me. Also AF-s on the centerpoint misses sometimes in certain situations, it sometimes feels as if the sensor is slightly misalligned with the indicationpoint (slightly higher). I`m sure I`m not the only one that would love to see more, faster and more accurate AFpoints. And otherwise, if P/R really wants to take on Canon and Nikon as they claim, P/R has to get up to par with the competition. The K30`s upgraded AFsystem sounds like a good step in that direction and could be a hint for the K5 successor.

Last edited by TenZ.NL; 05-24-2012 at 11:55 AM.
05-24-2012, 11:58 AM   #93
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And some people like me mostly shoot in low light so they want a sensative AF, there are so many considerations.
05-24-2012, 12:02 PM   #94
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Lol, don`t you think a wildlifeshooter wants/needs that too?


Last edited by TenZ.NL; 05-24-2012 at 02:03 PM. Reason: .
05-24-2012, 12:19 PM   #95
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QuoteOriginally posted by jmg257 Quote
Can you explain this? What makes small sensors (& center?) subject to being off re:faster lenses?
less dof so they can more easily pick the wrong focus point, happens when i shoot singers all the time with my 2.8 zoom it chooses the mike rather than the face (so does CIF with my 1.4 lens - even worse at 1.4-2.0 actually, i just don't have an AF variant to compare with but CIF uses the center point
05-24-2012, 12:43 PM   #96
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So this isn't really dependent on the AF sensor size (or just the opposite)? Wouldn't a larger AF sensor have less user control over where its placed? Any sensor covering 2 objects would need to decide which one to choose.

Pentax algorithms apparently give priority to sensor defocus amounts indicating 'closest object distance', with center sensor area getting priority, in Auto select. Those representing less focus lens movement are chosen, with lateral sensor given priority, in manual select. {the 'closer object distance' likely equals 'smallest lens movement' too - not too clear on this}

Last edited by jmg257; 05-24-2012 at 12:50 PM.
05-24-2012, 01:12 PM   #97
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QuoteOriginally posted by jmg257 Quote
So this isn't really dependent on the AF sensor size (or just the opposite)? Wouldn't a larger AF sensor have less user control over where its placed? Any sensor covering 2 objects would need to decide which one to choose.

Pentax algorithms apparently give priority to sensor defocus amounts indicating 'closest object distance', with center sensor area getting priority, in Auto select. Those representing less focus lens movement are chosen, with lateral sensor given priority, in manual select. {the 'closer object distance' likely equals 'smallest lens movement' too - not too clear on this}
to be honest i'm not overly clear on AF functionality, but having shot with a 7d and a d3x that belong to friends in the same situation (just trying them out) I had no issue with either selecting the correct focus. the canon has 19 cross points and a zone system the nikon is 51 point with 15 cross point type
comparing the d3 isn't fair but 7d is directly against the k5 (or k7)

Edit - I can and do work around it but I have a lower keeper rate in part due to the AF. I think this AF in a k-30 level is eally good but not on upper level, so I hope for more sophistication on the next gen particularly in low light (all cameras struggle in low light but ours seem worse)
in daylight btw i have a lot less issue with this even shooting similar scenarios, partially because it is easier to manually focus and fine focus myself in good light, partially because i am more likely to be stopped down a bit
05-24-2012, 01:19 PM   #98
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QuoteOriginally posted by yusuf Quote
If you are using smaller lenses, try disabling SR and see if it improves.
Well, I've noticed that shake reduction more often ruins picture than rescues it, so it's off in my K-5 and I turn it on only when I see that shutter speed is really too slow to handhold.

05-24-2012, 04:11 PM   #99
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I think that it is more than a refinement, they claim that it has predictive focusing of moving objects. I believe that that Nikon uses a similar system in their high end cameras. I'm looking forward to hearing what users think when they start putting the camera to the test.
05-24-2012, 06:28 PM   #100
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QuoteOriginally posted by TenZ.NL Quote
Lol, don`t you think a wildlifeshooter wants/needs that too?
their priorities are different, thats what i'm saying
05-24-2012, 11:25 PM   #101
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I hear what you are saying but you don`t seem to hear what I`m saying. P/R needs to work on all aspects if they want to rival canonikon.
05-24-2012, 11:37 PM   #102
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QuoteOriginally posted by eddie1960 Quote
the size of the AF point is probably the key for a better AF
Hmmm. I think there is much more to it than that. Just look at what Pentax have added to improve AF in the K30 - a better lens setup in the AF array to filter out CA and hence reduce AF errors due to poor edge definition (or something). And look at what Nikon does with it's AF in high-end bodies to provide (amongst other things) better AF tracking - they add a complex colour sensor into the AF module. Etc

Obsessing over the number, size and type of AF points seems to miss the fact that accurate and/or fast AF is about more than just AF points. Without good supporting tech, even if someone had 300 AF points in their system, it may still perform poorly.
05-25-2012, 02:34 AM - 1 Like   #103
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QuoteOriginally posted by rawr Quote
Obsessing over the number, size and type of AF points seems to miss the fact that accurate and/or fast AF is about more than just AF points. Without good supporting tech, even if someone had 300 AF points in their system, it may still perform poorly.
we don't ask 300 AF points, all we ask is that the central one is not as big as 1/3 of the frame. That's it.
05-25-2012, 03:40 AM   #104
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QuoteOriginally posted by ElJamoquio Quote
Overall, the K-30 looks pretty much on-par with the K-5. Focus peaking (presumably) and improved A/F are welcome additions in my mind.

It's not a camera for me, I already have a K-5. But it's a heck of an upgrade from a k-r and of course is required because of the improvements from the D3200, etc.
While some sensor specs may be improved over the K5, several buttons and the display are missing. This camera is below K5 level.
Pretty much no innovations in any direction which is a real pity considering that this camera is going to be the new volume model. Can we expect more from the K5 successor?
05-25-2012, 04:10 AM   #105
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QuoteOriginally posted by aurele Quote
we don't ask 300 AF points, all we ask is that the central one is not as big as 1/3 of the frame. That's it.
+1 for this. Canon 7D has a spot AF option in addition to the regular AF area points.
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