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05-25-2012, 04:30 AM   #106
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Speed is not the issue....
Pentax AF is fast, as fast as any other brands AF. It is fast enough, end of discussion.


a AF system contains so much more other things... And thats where Pentax need to catch up. Namely in AF-C area. With my nikon d7k, i dont ever use anything else than AF-C in tracking mode or centre point. Its that darn good, hold af-on button then just follow and compose and press shutter when i feel to. Always spot on and fast, so fast that i would not get as many keepers with AF-S. And Nikon users complain on d7k AF?!? But i come from Pentax so...

They need, smaller sensors, closer placement of those, much much more development and design in AF cpu/intelligence, rgb sensors (we have in K-5, but better)....


Last edited by the swede; 05-25-2012 at 06:17 AM.
05-25-2012, 05:22 AM   #107
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QuoteOriginally posted by aurele Quote
we don't ask 300 AF points, all we ask is that the central one is not as big as 1/3 of the frame. That's it.
exactly
05-25-2012, 07:35 AM   #108
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QuoteOriginally posted by the swede Quote
They need, smaller sensors, closer placement of those
I'm hoping if they add more AF cross sensors for decent AF-C, they'll have to make the damned things smaller than 1/3 of the focusing area
05-25-2012, 08:02 AM   #109
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Agreed, I find that the 11 AF points to be inadequate in some of my activities. Would like to see double if not triple the number of autofocus points.

05-25-2012, 08:57 AM   #110
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QuoteOriginally posted by TenZ.NL Quote
I hear what you are saying but you don`t seem to hear what I`m saying. P/R needs to work on all aspects if they want to rival canonikon.
But if decisions need to be make, then what should they chose, more focus points or more sensitive focus points, sure they can do a balance of both but it's always one against the other.
I wouldnt mind at all the 19 cross points of canon but 52 points of Nikon is just too much, sure it looks cool but i question the value of it.
05-25-2012, 09:51 AM   #111
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Maybe Pentax does have rights to Hoya's patents for the latest 5x9 module (which refers to older Pentax patent for a 3x7 array)....that would be 45 + pts! Total redesign from SAFOX IX grid - each LS has partial areas, monitoring circuits, noise reduction and gain controllers...combine that with parallel sensors, AF module SR, color temp & colormetric sensors, CA reduction, AF prediction, etc. and we might have the beginnings of a winner!

Last edited by jmg257; 05-25-2012 at 10:56 AM.
05-25-2012, 10:29 AM   #112
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QuoteOriginally posted by jmg257 Quote
Maybe Pentax does have rights to Hoya's patents (one which refers to older Pentax patent for a 3x7 array) for the latest 5x9 module....that would be 45 + pts! Total redesign from SAFOX IX grid - each LS has partial areas, monitoring circuits, noise reduction and gain controllers...combine that with parallel sensors, AF module SR, color temp & colormetric sensors, CA reduction, AF prediction, etc. and we might have the beginnings of a winner!
I aggree wholeheartedly with this, even if I have no idea what you just said.
05-25-2012, 11:36 AM   #113
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Ha! I'm actually starting to understand some of this stuff myself!

It's pretty cool though. Hoya has gotten a lot of patents issued the last few years, many related to the sweet camera functions we are seeing (will see???) in Pentax bodies.
-SR
-Dust imaging/alert
-level indicator/correction
-DC Motor
-lens communication
-AF motors
-adjustable AF module mount
- the + in SAFOX for color temp sensing

There is a 2009 US patent (7496290) which apparently shows and describes the 3x3 SAFOX AF grid and functionality. {check that out then 2011/0111655 which is Canon's latest )


Even better though - there are recent patents for AF (and other) technologies that should address common complaints...

A 2009 patent describes a radically different style of AF sensor (3x7 array).
One from 2011 describes a 5x9 system based on the 3x7 (more points with line sensors broken up into small areas, more sensor signal control & manipulation)
A 2010 patent for multi-use colorimetric sensor (is this the current "+"? WB/Color/EV sensor detects object light color wavelength differences which produce AF errors in phase detection AF).
A patent for AF SR (what good is compensating the image sensor if the image on the AF sensor is blurry?)
A 2011 patent for parallel AF line sensors (allow for more accurate reading of angled objects).
The K30 AF has a CA corrective lens and new algorithms.
...

Would be very cool to see these and/or other improvements in the next cameras!


Last edited by jmg257; 05-25-2012 at 11:55 AM.
05-25-2012, 11:56 AM   #114
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QuoteOriginally posted by Anvh Quote
But if decisions need to be make, then what should they chose, more focus points or more sensitive focus points, sure they can do a balance of both but it's always one against the other.
I wouldnt mind at all the 19 cross points of canon but 52 points of Nikon is just too much, sure it looks cool but i question the value of it.
Like Aurele said, we `re not asking for 300 AF points
05-25-2012, 12:07 PM - 1 Like   #115
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QuoteOriginally posted by Anvh Quote
And you know for a fact that the K30 AF is better?

Fun all this speculating =]
Of course I know that for a fact ... it's all in the rumours, specifications and speculations!

Let me rephrase that: I hope that if the K-30 AF system is improved over that of the other Pentax cameras, that it will continue improving.

How's that?

JP
05-25-2012, 02:39 PM   #116
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QuoteOriginally posted by kenyee Quote
I'm hoping if they add more AF cross sensors for decent AF-C, they'll have to make the damned things smaller than 1/3 of the focusing area

Just one spot AF pen-point in the center would be a good option. Canon 7D has a spot AF option in addition to their normal size AF points.

Dave
05-26-2012, 07:51 PM   #117
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My E-420 has 11 points and they are far smaller than the Pentax ones.
05-27-2012, 10:54 AM   #118
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How much difference? Is this simply a swap of existing K5 parts (surely a good thing, but likely that's it with the addition of an algorithm tweak - remains to be seen if the tracking module is an add on or also just an algorithm improvement. Past improvements have been very slow coming and in very small micro steps. I'll wait on a real verdict, whatever that might be.

Past shooters saying the K20 AF was much better than K10 were likely not even close to true. I had K7 and now K5, there is an improvement over K10, but not by any wide margin. I'm not sure that I can go by forum reports only on this one topic, at least going from past experience noted. I surely look forward though to real improvements and not just another little tweak. Here's to a nice glass of wine (red) at least half full ;-)

Adam wrote - "Will the Pentax K-30's AF rival that of Canikon?
According to Pentax, the new AF system in the K-30 addresses many of the shortcomings of previous Pentax DSLRs. Do you think Pentax will finally be closer to the competition with the launch of this camera?

Quote:
The K-30 features the state-of-the-art SAFOX IXi+ AF sensor module, which assures responsive, high-precision autofocus operation by incorporating a diffraction lens to minimize chromatic aberration in accordance to the characteristics of each individual lens. It also factors the light source at the time of shooting into its calculations. Nine of its 11 sensor points have cross-type sensors to capture all kinds of subjects in sharp focus, while its spotbeam projector assists the AF system at poorly lit locations. The K-30’s AF algorithm has also been upgraded in all areas. A new select-area expansion function allows the sensor module to continue to track a moving subject, even when it moves out of a pre-assigned auto-tracking area, by assessing distance data collected by neighboring focus sensors. The accuracy and speed of detecting moving subjects during autofocus shooting, and autofocusing performance when using a telephoto lens, have been greatly improved as well."
05-27-2012, 12:09 PM   #119
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The AF in the K5, Kr and 645D had a design flaw in them.
From what i read it seems they have fixed that and they have improved the algorithm further.
I really wonder how much different the hardware actually is.
05-27-2012, 06:52 PM   #120
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QuoteOriginally posted by Anvh Quote
I wouldnt mind at all the 19 cross points of canon but 52 points of Nikon is just too much, sure it looks cool but i question the value of it.
Having 52 available doesn't mean you have to use them all at once when selecting stuff. It can present you with a subset grid when selecting an AF point.

The 52 is really useful for AF-C...you need more AF points to track objects properly, not gigantic 11 AF points that cover the entire sensor
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