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05-21-2012, 03:56 PM   #16
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oops; just a mistake!

05-21-2012, 05:48 PM   #17
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I guess it's to be expected that photographers care what things look like but I just regard my cameras as black boxes to which I attach lenses.
05-21-2012, 06:26 PM   #18
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Existing Pentax dSLR shooters may be irrelevant to sales growth. We're a tiny sliver of the camera market; why cater to us? As has been mentioned, many (most?) new buyers may not care about a brand's styling consistency. They may rather be attracted by any model's individual styling and features -- and intensive marketing.

I don't notice that other brands maintain styling consistency across product lines, from ultra-compacts to FFs. But maybe I haven't looked closely enough. [/me leafs through recent B&H catalog] No, I see no consistency. Maybe Pentax-Ricoh *will* choose some consistent styling scheme -- if one of the various styles they introduce goes gangbusters in the marketplace. Otherwise, why bother?
05-22-2012, 03:05 AM   #19
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QuoteOriginally posted by RioRico Quote
Existing Pentax dSLR shooters may be irrelevant to sales growth. We're a tiny sliver of the camera market; why cater to us? As has been mentioned, many (most?) new buyers may not care about a brand's styling consistency. They may rather be attracted by any model's individual styling and features -- and intensive marketing.

I don't notice that other brands maintain styling consistency across product lines, from ultra-compacts to FFs. But maybe I haven't looked closely enough. [/me leafs through recent B&H catalog] No, I see no consistency. Maybe Pentax-Ricoh *will* choose some consistent styling scheme -- if one of the various styles they introduce goes gangbusters in the marketplace. Otherwise, why bother?
Fair enough, and good point on the audience, it is new customers pentax wants more than anything! I really like the k30, I think an external mic would have been nice for the price, just to keep the video crowd happy, but the swivel LCD does not bother me, you can't have EVERYTHING for the price, and WR>swivel LCD IMO. All the extras should be in the flagship aps-c!
One other thing that does concern me is where the k30 fits in the new pentax line of cameras. I sure hope they bring out a KZ with the same styling, the same sensor, but maybe the K5's AF system and pentamirror with no WR to bring costs down. Only because if pentax truly want to expand, they need to cater for people just getting in to DSLRs, like the Kx did. I fear they may rely on the K01 do satisfy that sector, but it clearly does not.
3 DSLR bodies with a mirrorless and a MF would be great. But there is one thing missing ...Fullframe would make people take pentax just that little bit more seriously and ensure owners of the flagship body have the possibility to upgrade (many by canikons just to have the possibility to upgrade, even if they never do). Other than that, a step in the right direction I think! I'm pretty sure Ricoh will bring out a fullframe, they just need to keep it 'different' from the competition, size could be that difference.

05-22-2012, 06:41 AM   #20
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Pentax has experimented with different designs many times. Just compare the MX with the SF-1...
Or the Z-serie with the K1000... like from different planets. Or the MZ-serie which was a radical departure from the earlier Z-serie. Then came the MZ-S and a new and unique design approach was born. Also look like the *ist analogue camera, it was unique... had no special design-DNA at all, and compare with the *ist D they were like from different universes. Yes, the analogue *ist and the digital *ist D was clearly designed by different teams.

But the *ist D-series had some similarities (D, DS, DL...) and so came the new K-serie (K10, K100, K110, K200) and the fun thing here is that they had no DNA of whatsoever from the *ist D.. The K10D and K20D were quite different from the *ist D-series, and the K-7 that then came was quite different from the K10D and K20D... then the K-5 came which used the same design as the K-7.

My point is... Pentax by tradition change their designs when they release a new serie. It is nothing new, they have done it for many many years.
I like the design of the K-30, and from the back it actually looks quite much like the K-x that I own so it is the front-end and side profile that has changed..
I do see some design elements from the old Pentax Z-70.. (the handgrip and the front e-dial...)
05-22-2012, 07:32 AM   #21
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QuoteOriginally posted by chaza01 Quote
The k30 brings a new body design for pentax, quite different from the classic k5,kr,kx slightly 'understated' look (a look which I quite liked). Which makes me think, how important is a consistent styling? I notice than nikon never stray too far from the conventional design with the red stripe on the hand grip, whilst canon have always stuck to the curved styling. But pentax really has made quite a radical change. The K30, without the pentax logo, looks more like an offering from sony.
I am assuming the same style will be adopted for the entry level K-z (or whatever name is chosen) and the K-3.
Would suddenly overhauling the traditional pentax look affect brand recognition? Or does it merely represent Ricoh's intention to revitalize the pentax brand name?
(For the record, I do not despise the k30's design, I am warming to it fast.)
In recent years, the colourways have set Pentax apart from the rest.
Especially the so-called "storm trooper" model.
Ok, so not everyone is willing to stray from the safety of black, but the colourways are more eye-catching than a few curves and straight lines and a red stripe on the grip.

There are similarities of the k-m, k-x, k-r, k-30 when viewed from the top.
Other angles show the k-30 is a bulked-up beast though.
Maybe cus it's a mid-level camera.
There might be an entry-level model coming out which will be the same shape as the k-r...who knows.

K10 and K20 were the same body design, which was completely overhauled for the k-7 and k-5.
All great looking cameras.
I believe a new body design will be used on the next flagship model by Pentax.

Personally, I think the changes in shape over the years are great.
I'm still a fan of the k10/20 shape, as I know some are here. Just the perfect size for me.
05-23-2012, 01:08 AM   #22
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QuoteOriginally posted by mickey Quote
Personally, I think the changes in shape over the years are great.
I'm still a fan of the k10/20 shape, as I know some are here. Just the perfect size for me.
I love the ergonomics of my K10 except for three small problems:

- the grip is not "grippy" enough, it's too flat and round. Despite having very big hands, I have a more secure grip of the K100D (and presumably also the K-5, but I've only tried that in a shop).
- it's faaar to easy to touch the AE-L button by accident
- the AF switch is too easily moved to AF.C by accident
05-25-2012, 08:07 PM   #23
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Before the K-x, DSLRs were supposed to be black (or silver) too.

I guess aesthetic changes are subjective. You either love or hate it. I give credit to Pentax for thinking out of the box.

Two years from now, like colored bodies, we may see aggressive designs from Canon and/or Nikon.

Maybe Pentax finally incorporated the coffee maker then

05-26-2012, 05:13 AM   #24
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QuoteOriginally posted by gazonk Quote
...they may have thought that the camera should express its ruggedness and not hide it.
I believe this is true.

Pentax has to catch up in terms of market share and a product that "speaks for itself" on the shelf, by visually communicating "robust", "sturdy", "rugged", will catch more attention than a tame looking one that perhaps has a label next to it stating "weather-sealed" in small print.

I think Pentax struck a good balance between a design language that screams "rugged" and an understated look. I feel that some of the Pentax waterproof P&S models go too far in trying to communicate their intended environment. But I guess they are catering for a target market which does not include me.

I'm hoping the forthcoming flagships will err on the side of understatement and they should be able to afford to because most customers shopping in that price range will have done their homework thoroughly. However, even if the styling is a bit more forward, like the K-30, I could very well live with that.
05-26-2012, 07:12 AM   #25
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QuoteOriginally posted by gazonk Quote
I love the ergonomics of my K10 except for three small problems:

- the grip is not "grippy" enough, it's too flat and round. Despite having very big hands, I have a more secure grip of the K100D (and presumably also the K-5, but I've only tried that in a shop).
- it's faaar to easy to touch the AE-L button by accident
- the AF switch is too easily moved to AF.C by accident
If you mean the grip on the body, there actually were some rather fatter ones available, I think you'd have to send the camera in to have them installed just right, but, they did exist.

Incidentally, those battery grips can be improved a lot with a little self-adhesive material. I put a bit of soft leather in the thumbrest (I used some of what you use in the arrow rest of a bow, it's very soft stuff and it stays on indefinitely) And some thinner stuff along the bottom edge where the heel of my hand goes.
05-26-2012, 07:45 AM   #26
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Well, looking at design from a semiotics point of view..
1) People like some familiar things, provided they have good memories and experiences with it. You know, something that is similar to the archetype seems "right."
2) On the other hand, some people hate the archetype (for whatever reasons) and want something different. The K-01 comes to mind.
3) Design indicates features and quality. Now this is no longer the case, since companies are actively trying to trick consumers by using great design but making everything else cheap. (This can be seen especially in the cheap fashion industry) But the design still needs to express the things you want it to express. In this thread the ruggedness has been pointed out. In this case you have to make the WR camera look special, so people ask "Why does it look like that? What sets it apart from the others?"
4) The sense of aesthetic is something that the culture cultivates. It changes over time and cameras need to keep up or they will look outdated. There is also a tactic to make your products look the "most newest," which will make the competitor's cameras look outdated in comparison. (You can see an example of this with modern space-age looking cars) This is also beneficial to the company because these designs are short-lived, the user will want to replace it soon, which guarantees another sale.
05-27-2012, 01:20 AM   #27
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QuoteOriginally posted by mickey Quote
Ok, so not everyone is willing to stray from the safety of black, but the colourways are more eye-catching than a few curves and straight lines and a red stripe on the grip.
Well, not completely true, but it takes time to get create an eye-catching curve that knows everyone.

05-29-2012, 01:45 AM   #28
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QuoteOriginally posted by Ratmagiclady Quote
If you mean the grip on the body, there actually were some rather fatter ones available, I think you'd have to send the camera in to have them installed just right, but, they did exist.
Right, I remember Pentax Japan and Pentax Germany would do that.
05-31-2012, 04:33 AM   #29
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Well, it's nice to see that Pentax is finally getting things off the ground after its acquisition by Ricoh! Whilst the K-01 was very unorthodox design-wise, the K30's design touched base with its more conventional design cues of its predecessors. Nevertheless, I still think that those lines near the AF switch are pretty rad, if you ask me :P
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