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05-23-2012, 12:20 PM   #91
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I wonder if B&H has a special deal - permissible under UPP if pre-arranged?

Speaking of specials, I wonder if Target will get a special issue of the K30 in red?

05-23-2012, 12:27 PM   #92
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QuoteOriginally posted by monochrome Quote
I wonder if B&H has a special deal - permissible under UPP if pre-arranged?

Speaking of specials, I wonder if Target will get a special issue of the K30 in red?
I would think a candy apple red (ala 645) would be the perfect Target edition - and appeal to the bmw half of the parking lot
05-23-2012, 12:33 PM   #93
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QuoteOriginally posted by monochrome Quote
Speaking of specials, I wonder if Target will get a special issue of the K30 in red?
That would very nice but even if they did I doubt my Target would carry it. The day I walk into my local Target and actually find anything Pentax on the shelf is likely the day they'll find me on the floor in the electronics dept in a deep faint. Actually I'm hoping Walmart will get one. That way I can use my Walmart CC to buy me one and not have to wait for a year. I can't kill one my major CC on stuff like gear. I need to mostly keep it free for emergencies like vet/doctor bills but the Walmart card I could just kill the balance and pay off in a few months...
05-23-2012, 12:43 PM   #94
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Isn't there some sort of promotional tie-in with Target though?

Anyway, all this WR / non-WR debate is very confusing. Why can they not just offer both WR and non-WR bundles, like SRS? If the option is presented, and people still choose the non-WR lens, it's on their own head.

K-30 Body - 599
K-30 + 18-55 DAL - 649
K-30 + 18-55 DAL + 50-200 DAL - 749
K-30 + 18-135 WR - 929
K-30 + 18-55 DAL + 55-300 DAL - 829
K-30 + 18-55 WR - 679
K-30 + 18-55 WR + 50-200 WR - 829

05-23-2012, 01:00 PM   #95
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Target may get it locally Mag, Ned mentioned a WR line going into a 1700 store chain (ie target)]

to quote him

QuoteQuote:
but I think you'll be pleasantly surprised when you find out that our weatherproof line is now being carried in over 1700 stores whose primary color is red. It's a first step but important on many levels. Thanks, Ned
now that is no guarantee it will be in every location, in fact i'd be surprised if it was, but I imagine a good percentage of stores will see it. So if your local store has DSLR then it probably will get the K-30, if not then maybe only the WG-2
05-23-2012, 02:10 PM   #96
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QuoteOriginally posted by eddie1960 Quote
Target may get it locally Mag, Ned mentioned a WR line going into a 1700 store chain (ie target)]

to quote him



now that is no guarantee it will be in every location, in fact i'd be surprised if it was, but I imagine a good percentage of stores will see it. So if your local store has DSLR then it probably will get the K-30, if not then maybe only the WG-2
I took his comment to mean WG2's. If Pentax offers a DSLR closer in features and price to the Sony Canon Nikon entry level cameras, Target might stock it as well. But I doubt the K-30 will.
05-23-2012, 02:20 PM   #97
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QuoteOriginally posted by cfraz Quote
I took his comment to mean WG2's. If Pentax offers a DSLR closer in features and price to the Sony Canon Nikon entry level cameras, Target might stock it as well. But I doubt the K-30 will.
We'll see, getting the WG2 in is no big deal really, getting the WR camera in would be. No target up here until next year so no comment on what the stores are like (They do have theD5100 nikon at store level so why not the K-30 - KR is online already though sold out)
05-23-2012, 03:51 PM   #98
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What is the difference between selling a K10 without a WR lens when it came out, (there wasn't one available at the time, even though the K10 is and was water resistant) and buying a K30 without a WR lens? I think this whole argument about selling the K30 without a WR lens is bogus, to tell the truth. The ads that I've seen from Pentax is the K30 with the 18-135 WR. What is the big deal anyway?

05-23-2012, 04:46 PM   #99
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QuoteOriginally posted by jimH Quote
What is the difference between selling a K10 without a WR lens when it came out, (there wasn't one available at the time, even though the K10 is and was water resistant) and buying a K30 without a WR lens? I think this whole argument about selling the K30 without a WR lens is bogus, to tell the truth. The ads that I've seen from Pentax is the K30 with the 18-135 WR. What is the big deal anyway?
Different market and different marketing.

The K10 was a semi-pro camera for advanced users who knew about, and were in the market for the expensive DA* star line.

The K200 was a weather sealed mid/entry level camera like this K30, but unlike now didn't have the affordable WR lenses to support that market, which is why the next two mid/entry level cameras after the K200 weren't WR.

The K30 is a heavily marketed weather sealed mid/entry level camera with affordable WR lenses to finally support it, but confusingly, comes bundled with non-WR kit lenses in some places and other places not. For many mid/entry consumers or newcomers to photography (ie. not us) not familiar with buying lenses, the marketing and confusing kit configurations could give them the impression their new K30 bundle is WR when it is not.
05-23-2012, 05:07 PM   #100
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Per Adam (again), B&H has been pre-selling 18-55mm WR kits that aren't WR for days now.

And NewEgg still lists "full weather sealing for shooting in any conditions" as a feature of their non-WR kit.

Last edited by illdefined; 05-23-2012 at 05:18 PM.
05-23-2012, 09:06 PM   #101
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Look before you leap!!!. All you have to do is call up B&H on their toll free number (800.606.6969) before you order and confirm what price and what items you are getting. Very simple!!! I'm sure they will clear up all this ad confusion very quickly. No reason to lose any sleep over it.

Why troll on and on about this forever. Pentax is probably just trying to get rid of all those old DAL lenses and give a lower price point for some of their "NEW" customers that don't want to spend a fortune on a DSLR.

B&H is offering many interesting combos with this K30.
pentax K30

I think the best deal is the one with the 18-135 WR combo, with the lens at a $180.00 discount. But it is $1200 so it may make it rather
expensive for the "Entry Level" beginner.
Pentax K30 Digital Camera with 18-135mm Lens Kit (Black) 15635
05-23-2012, 10:47 PM   #102
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QuoteOriginally posted by illdefined Quote
No. my solution would've been to sell it with WR lenses ONLY
So, no body only option for those who already own lenses they like? No way for users who are as obsessed as you over this to buy a cheaper kit? That would have been a huge mistake. And it still wouldn't have ended the confusion, as people might buy a kit with a WR lens then try using the camera with, say, the new DA35/2.4 they just bought.

Again, there is no getting around the potential for confusion. No way would it be acceptable for Pentax to limit the options for those of us who might not care about buying a kit with an 18-55WR just because you are worried some people might get confused.

QuoteQuote:
There's already been a WR/non-WR mix-up at B&H one of the biggest retailers, thus already proven to be an issue.
That's not the issue we are talking about. Sure, there is a possibilty of someone buying - or selling - the wrong lens, again, that is always going to be the case, and nothing anyone does can change that. The issue we were talking about isn't the possibilty of accidentally buying or selling the wrong lens, but rather, the issue of someone not realizing that it even matters, and then somehow holding this against Pentax and suing them. There is no evidence that this is the case here.
05-24-2012, 08:44 AM   #103
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QuoteOriginally posted by Marc Sabatella Quote
So, no body only option for those who already own lenses they like? No way for users who are as obsessed as you over this to buy a cheaper kit? That would have been a huge mistake. And it still wouldn't have ended the confusion, as people might buy a kit with a WR lens then try using the camera with, say, the new DA35/2.4 they just bought.

Again, there is no getting around the potential for confusion. No way would it be acceptable for Pentax to limit the options for those of us who might not care about buying a kit with an 18-55WR just because you are worried some people might get confused.
Marc, I'm beginning to think you've just decided to label me a "Pentax Hater" (nothing could be further from the truth) and refuse to actually read my posts out of some sort of pride. How else could you have possibly dismissed this part of my post? It was right after the part you selectively quoted.

QuoteOriginally posted by illdefined Quote
That and body-only, for the experienced user, where the buyer is forced to consider what they're putting on their camera.
This goes for pros and amateurs alike. If someone knows enough about lenses (focal lengths, F-stops and such) to buy an extra lens and attach something from a different box onto their camera, then I consider them advanced enough to know the attributes of that lens and hold them entirely responsible for what they're doing.

I'm not talking about THEM (us).

I'm talking about the NEWcomers to ILCs, coming from compacts or superzooms, who don't measure their telephoto reach by mm, but by 10x, 4x and 2x.

While certainly advanced enough for experienced users, the K30 is also clearly designed and marketed to be attractive to first time SLR buyers, with it's tough look and shiny colors. People who've never changed a lens in their life, and don't write on PentaxForums (though they've been affected too).

Anyone caught up in this pre-order mix-up (I don't have to tell you how big B&H is), or who drove by a Pentax billboard without seeing or understanding the difference between an 18-something-something mm and another 18-something-something mm lens, or worst of all, and the most likely, just got wrong information at the retailer (Pentax knowledge at retail has never been good) opens up a box with their first SLR in it, potentially with a picture of a wet camera on it….

OF COURSE you can never totally eliminate the possibility of confusion, but we spend our whole lives trying to trying to influence possibilities. Saying you can't affect possible outcomes is like saying 'don't bother wearing a seatbelt'. Isn't avoiding some confusion better than adding the chances of it? Pentax is in a direct position to affect the probability of the confusion it started, with its aggressive marketing and messed up product roll-out.

QuoteOriginally posted by Marc Sabatella Quote
That's not the issue we are talking about. Sure, there is a possibilty of someone buying - or selling - the wrong lens, again, that is always going to be the case, and nothing anyone does can change that. The issue we were talking about isn't the possibilty of accidentally buying or selling the wrong lens, but rather, the issue of someone not realizing that it even matters, and then somehow holding this against Pentax and suing them. There is no evidence that this is the case here.
These are all symptoms of the same problem. Pentax not bundling the K30 with WR kits across the board, with the option of body-only.

Pentax has been sending sales materials to all these retailers for weeks now, and B&H expected WR kits. NewEgg is repeating the sales material and listing the 18-55mm KIT as "Fully weather sealed" not just the camera. Now just imagine these errors multiplied by all the thousands of mom&pop camera shops across the country and their websites.

PENTAX has established an expectation for this camera kit to be WR to both retailer and consumer. If they want to have an exception, they better make it crystal clear to both parties what it is, and hopefully they will. So far it hasn't been, as this thread that I didn't start attests. I'm not the only one writing here about the WR situation, and most camera buyers don't write on forums, especially new ones who would be affected by this issue the most.

And people ask me why I repeat myself. it's because people here aren't open enough to fully consider what I'm actually saying in these posts.

Last edited by illdefined; 05-25-2012 at 11:29 AM.
05-25-2012, 11:08 PM   #104
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QuoteOriginally posted by illdefined Quote
Marc, I'm beginning to think you've just decided to label me a "Pentax Hater" (nothing could be further from the truth) and refuse to actually read my posts out of some sort of pride. How else could you have possibly dismissed this part of my post?
The question, how could *you* have missed it, when you wrote it yourself? can't you see it completely invalidates the rest of your argument? If it is so damned important than no poor newbie ever have the slightest possibilty of being confused, you simply cannot allow them to use any non-WR lens. And you certainly can't sell a camera that *demands* to be used with a non kit lenses.

Your argument is based on the fact that some poor user might be confused. Mine is that this is unavoidable unless you take steps than no rational person would ever suggest aking. And that includes disallowing a body-only option.

QuoteQuote:
I'm talking about the NEWcomers to ILCs, coming from compacts or superzooms, who don't measure their telephoto reach by mm, but by 10x, 4x and 2x.
So, because you are worried a few people won't do their homework, you disallow millions from having the option of buying a cheaper kit if they decide they don't need a sealed lens? That's just insane.

QuoteQuote:
people ask me why I repeat myself. it's because people here aren't open enough to fully consider what I'm actually saying in these posts.
We might have been open to it ten years ago, but ten years of history have proven this just is not an issue, period. It is not going to magically start being an issue now if it wasn't before.
05-26-2012, 04:46 AM   #105
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I have the K-5 and I dont have a single WR lense. I understand my limitation
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