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06-13-2012, 01:26 AM   #181
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QuoteOriginally posted by isaacc7 Quote
"The noise is more than four levels in 14-bit units on the Nikon D3/D300, Canon 1D3/1Ds3 and 40D.
As madbrain said, that's outdated technology being referenced.

The SONY EXMOR sensor in the K-5 can make use of more than 12-bits. Guillermo Luijk has done a corresponding investigation.

06-13-2012, 02:20 AM   #182
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QuoteOriginally posted by frank Quote
Now you know where the ideas came from for this K-30:



K-30 Brief Introduction | Facebook
Just as well it didn't come from a Saturn V rocket or it'd be more of a poke in the eye than it already is ouch!
06-13-2012, 05:04 AM   #183
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QuoteOriginally posted by madbrain Quote
These links provide good background information on noise, and good information about some 4-year old Canon and Nikon cameras.
I'm just not sure how much of it applies to the current crop of Canon, and released and unreleased Pentax cameras
Technology changes, physics doesn't You're right, we don't know how the current cameras stack up but my guess is that they are more similar than different when it comes to the noise floor. All sorts of systems, ranging from audio recorders to all kinds of broadcasts have essentially had the same S/N ratio for quite a while. There is a technological reason behind it but mostly it's because it generally isn't worth the effort to chase down those last bits of info buried in the noise. The vast majority of pictures (especially from low to mid level cameras) are rendered in 8 bits, and they look great. It would be nice to see more measurements of the new cameras but I have a feeling that other practical things like SR, ergonomics, and focussing have a lot larger impact on the image quality.
06-13-2012, 05:10 AM   #184
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QuoteOriginally posted by Pentaxor Quote
so basically what you are saying that it depends on the hardware and the conversion that handles the bit rate quality. let's say that a newer hardware that handles the 12bit data would be better than the 14bit data converted by the current hardware on the K5. of course, 14bit would be better significantly, provided that it has the hardware that would optimize it's use. it's like optimizing the capability or usage.
Right. If the system were able to reduce the noise floor to the point where you could reliably get good information from those 13th and 14th bits, then it certainly makes sense to record that info. Well, at least it does if you're making a product that will appeal to people obsessing over the margins of recording. If the target audience is going to use JPG output exclusively, 12 bits is going to be more than enough, no need to have the processing overhead or crazy design to optimize for information that will never be seen.

06-13-2012, 05:19 AM   #185
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QuoteOriginally posted by Class A Quote
As madbrain said, that's outdated technology being referenced.

The SONY EXMOR sensor in the K-5 can make use of more than 12-bits. Guillermo Luijk has done a corresponding investigation.
I never said the K5 couldn't do it, I thought this was about the K30... Look, I don't know the actual reason why Pentax decided to go with 12 bits, but noise truncating could be one of the reasons. Even if the sensor is exactly the same, the rest of the system is not and therefore it is quite possible to have a higher noise floor in a less expensive camera. Here's a counter argument, those tests of the K5 were done at the lowest ISO, higher ISOs (probably even 200) will lose that useful information. It wouldn't surprise me if the decision was made that prioritized the benefits of smaller file size all the time vs. possible benefit at low ISO only. This kind of decision might be different in a camera like the K5, but they are aiming at different markets. In any case, the fact remains that there can be legitimate reasons for choosing 12 bit raw files over 14. We"ll have to wait and see what the files are like from the K30. I'm betting that they'll be quite good.
06-13-2012, 09:59 AM   #186
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setting aside the debate between the 12bit and 14bit rendering, the K-30 is surely one nice camera. people can choose either K-5, K-01 and K30, but I don't think it would affect the real world images considering these 3 cameras share the same sensor. the debate between 12bit and 14bit right now is pretty pointless.
06-13-2012, 10:02 AM   #187
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QuoteOriginally posted by Pentaxor Quote
I don't think it would affect the real world images considering these 3 cameras share the same sensor. the debate between 12bit and 14bit right now is pretty pointless.
Agreed.
06-13-2012, 02:14 PM   #188
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QuoteOriginally posted by Pentaxor Quote
setting aside the debate between the 12bit and 14bit rendering, the K-30 is surely one nice camera. people can choose either K-5, K-01 and K30, but I don't think it would affect the real world images considering these 3 cameras share the same sensor. the debate between 12bit and 14bit right now is pretty pointless.
What's more, I'm sure my hard drives will thank me for the smaller filesize, and this probably contributes to the lightning speed others have mentioned with the K-30. Coming from 12-Bit RAW on my K-x, I'm not concerned.

06-14-2012, 09:44 PM   #189
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QuoteOriginally posted by madbrain Quote
Turns out the focus peaking is really imprecise. I cannot rely on it to get any sharp pictures. I constantly get blurry pictures of what I thought was in focus. ... IMO, this is really more of a gimmick and not a useful feature at all, at least the way it's currently implemented in Magic lantern. Maybe when the manufacturers themselves add it, they will have better algorithms that work more reliably.
You will be glad to know that Pentax has definitely gotten focus peaking right, at least with respect to the K-01, which means it probably works equally well in the K-30. There are a number of photos in the add your best K-01 photos here thread that were shot using focus peaking. Below are several excellent examples of the results of focus peaking (there are more in the thread, but, with one exception, I found these by searching for "focus peaking" using the page search feature in my web browser; not everyone who posted "focus-peaked" photos states it explicitly in his or her descriptions; instead he or she mentions the manual lenses that were used).

Some shots at the National Motor Museum at Beaulieu by Alfred.

Glasses and china by ibkc.

A shot of a flower by nparsons13.

Last edited by Welfl; 06-15-2012 at 09:42 AM.
06-14-2012, 10:50 PM   #190
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QuoteOriginally posted by Welfl Quote
You will be glad to know that Pentax has definitely gotten focus peaking right, at least with respect to the K-01, which means it probably works equally well in the K-30. There are a number of photos in the add your best K-01 photos here thread that were shot using focus peaking. Below are several excellent examples of the results of focus peaking (there are more in the thread, but, with one exception, I found these by searching for "focus peaking" using the page search feature in my web browser; not everyone who posted "focus-peaked" photos states it explicitly in his or her descriptions; instead they mention the manual lenses they used).

Some shots at the National Motor Museum at Beaulieu by Alfred.

Glasses and china by ibkc.

A shot of a flower by nparsons13.
Thanks, those pics look rather sharp indeed. Can't work for my K-30 to arrive . My K-r was shipped to Australia yesterday.
I'm left only with a Canon T3i in the meantime.
07-16-2012, 08:25 PM   #191
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Can anyone post some photos of white K-30 with FA LE silver lens!!??
still deciding blue or white K-30 to buy><
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