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05-22-2012, 03:12 PM - 1 Like   #16
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QuoteOriginally posted by Paolo.Bosetti Quote
Best question in a while.
You are correct that the resolution difference between 16 and 18 megapixels is fairly trivial. But expert opinion (and I mean that of real experts) holds that, contrary to popular opinion, having more megapixels is advantageous. Here is a link to a recent piece by Ctein: The Online Photographer: Myths About Megapixels (...And, Does the D800 Have Too Many?)

Rob

05-22-2012, 04:41 PM   #17
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QuoteOriginally posted by goldenarrow Quote
What good are 24mp cameras if the pictures are blurry??? And who wants to spend 30-50% more for each VR lens??? Sheeple to slaughter.....

Like the sheeple who propagate the "30-50% more for each VR lens" myth? Like the sheeple who prefer the Nikon 18-105 VR lens, which is sharper and over $100 less than the Pentax 18-135?

There's good reason to choose Pentax - or any system - but spreading FUD is not one of them.
05-22-2012, 04:46 PM   #18
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QuoteOriginally posted by robgo2 Quote
You are correct that the resolution difference between 16 and 18 megapixels is fairly trivial. But expert opinion (and I mean that of real experts) holds that, contrary to popular opinion, having more megapixels is advantageous. Here is a link to a recent piece by Ctein: The Online Photographer: Myths About Megapixels (...And, Does the D800 Have Too Many?)

Rob
Thanks for posting the link, it's a great writeup. People are taking the "megapixel myth" too far, and I think there are many folks who forget (if they ever knew) that the MM was primarily aimed at P&S cameras, with their sensors and often sub-par lenses.
05-22-2012, 04:52 PM   #19
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QuoteOriginally posted by JinDesu Quote
The K-30, running the k-5/K-01 sensor, will have better DR, better high ISO, and a bit better sharpness than the D3200. In addition to that, it is marketed at the mid-level (prosumer) group - the same group that will enjoy two dials, pentaprism 100% coverage viewfinder, and WR.

In addition to that, the K-30 is very interesting to look at - plus the blue and white color versions are very striking. Much of the comments at DPReview have been giving props to Pentax for the design and the WR. Responses on the D3200 at DPReview have been more mixed - most are discussing the sensor (as it is new, while the K-30's has a pretty solid background). There isn't as much positive response to it.

So to summarize - the K-30 is thundering on pretty well right now, as far as I can see.
Well, according to DXOMark, the differences in the sensors is trivial. DxOMark - Compare cameras side by side

I would prefer the K-30 to the Nikon D3200, but it makes little sense to knock the 24MP sensor. With a good lens, it will show more detail than the K-30's 16MP sensor.

05-22-2012, 06:38 PM   #20
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QuoteOriginally posted by luftfluss Quote
Well, according to DXOMark, the differences in the sensors is trivial. DxOMark - Compare cameras side by side

I would prefer the K-30 to the Nikon D3200, but it makes little sense to knock the 24MP sensor. With a good lens, it will show more detail than the K-30's 16MP sensor.
Well, the 16 megapixel sensor has better dynamic range (not quite a stop) and better high iso (by a hair). The 24 megapixel sensor has better resolution. Which would you pick? I would pick the 16 megapixel, particularly because I have seen some weird color shifts from the Sony cameras with the 24 megapixel sensor (maybe it's just Sony's issue and Nikon will fix them).
05-22-2012, 07:04 PM   #21
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QuoteOriginally posted by Rondec Quote
Well, the 16 megapixel sensor has better dynamic range (not quite a stop)
Not according to DxO it doesn't:

24Mp Score - 81 (Overall) - 24.1bits (Colour Depth) - 13.4ev (Dynamic Range)

16Mp Score - 77 (Overall) - 23.6bits (Colour Depth) - 12.7ev (Dynamic Range)

Shows the 24Mp gets a better overall, colour depth and dynamic range score, and only marginally loses in ISO ability. So resolution, colour, and dynamic range are all better on the 24Mp compared to 16Mp sensors. Having said all that the differences in this case would be very hard to notice on images.
05-22-2012, 07:09 PM   #22
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QuoteOriginally posted by Rondec Quote
Well, the 16 megapixel sensor has better dynamic range (not quite a stop) and better high iso (by a hair). The 24 megapixel sensor has better resolution. Which would you pick? I would pick the 16 megapixel, particularly because I have seen some weird color shifts from the Sony cameras with the 24 megapixel sensor (maybe it's just Sony's issue and Nikon will fix them).
Like Pentax, Nikon seems to do better with Sony sensors than Sony does! I would not be surprised at all to see Nikon manage to improve things a tad. If there were some way to have either the 24MP or 16MP sensor installed in the K-30, I would choose the 24MP sensor. It's not a big deal, though, and I would be very happy with the 16MP one.

It's worth noting that the Sony NEX-7 used in the comparison outputs 12 bit RAW, rather than the 14 bit RAW of the K-5. I just looked up the K-01 on DXOMark - I didn't realize that they had tested it - and it actually scores slightly worse than the NEX-7, most likely due to the 12 bit RAW.

DxOMark - Compare cameras side by side

Again, nothing terribly important IMHO.
05-22-2012, 07:10 PM   #23
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QuoteOriginally posted by Freak Quote
Not according to DxO it doesn't:

24Mp Score - 81 (Overall) - 24.1bits (Colour Depth) - 13.4ev (Dynamic Range)

16Mp Score - 77 (Overall) - 23.6bits (Colour Depth) - 12.7ev (Dynamic Range)

Shows the 24Mp gets a better overall, colour depth and dynamic range score, and only marginally loses in ISO ability. So resolution, colour, and dynamic range are all better on the 24Mp compared to 16Mp sensors. Having said all that the differences in this case would be very hard to notice on images.
The info is not Rondec's fault - he followed my DXOMark link, which used the K-5 for comparison, rather than the K-01.

05-22-2012, 07:29 PM   #24
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sheeple

QuoteOriginally posted by luftfluss Quote
Like the sheeple who propagate the "30-50% more for each VR lens" myth? Like the sheeple who prefer the Nikon 18-105 VR lens, which is sharper and over $100 less than the Pentax 18-135?

There's good reason to choose Pentax - or any system - but spreading FUD is not one of them.
Part of my reason to question has to do with the average consumer not ever considering Pentax and only doing the knee-jerk reaction of buying the big two; it was not about measuring pixels, sharpness, resolution, CA, etc, etc of specific, paired zoom lens comparisons. It also has a further purpose of forcing people to think about long-term total cost of ownership and still have an enjoyable experience learning the hobby. If I sounded like I was spreading FUD, I apologize since I consider the Nikon system, as a whole, to be very attractive. What I cannot justify is the total cost, based on my needs, which seem to be fairly average for a hobbyist, and could line-up very well with the average consumer who wants to become a better photographer over a long period of time and build a system over that time frame that fits his/her needs. Thank you for your obviously expert opinion.

05-23-2012, 05:05 PM   #25
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QuoteOriginally posted by robgo2 Quote
You are correct that the resolution difference between 16 and 18 megapixels is fairly trivial. But expert opinion (and I mean that of real experts) holds that, contrary to popular opinion, having more megapixels is advantageous. Here is a link to a recent piece by Ctein: The Online Photographer: Myths About Megapixels (...And, Does the D800 Have Too Many?)

Rob
Forgive me if I missed it but, that's not what the article said at all. Basically, what the article said was, you can't break down the topic of advantages of pixel count based on pixel count alone. Meaning, you can't say 24mp is better than 16mp unless you know more about the situation ie sensor size, pixel size etc

Last edited by Navmaxlp; 05-23-2012 at 05:12 PM.
05-23-2012, 06:37 PM   #26
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QuoteOriginally posted by ElrondElensar Quote
The 24 MP sensor is going to be huge selling point, once the camera gets to shop. That's a specification that average people know about a camera.

Yes, D5100 would be the right comparison to K30, but D5100 is an year old. It's next in line for upgrade.
I recently read someplace that the D5100 line will be discontinued due to poor sales, too close in specs to the cheaper D3100.
So this new D3200 is the replacement for both the D3100 and the D5100.
05-24-2012, 02:58 PM   #27
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I find that "more megapixels" is helpful when cropping rather than printing.

My issue with the 16mp sensor is it feels "small" when compared to the Canon 18 or the Nikon 24. It may be Better, but the overall number trumps the archaic discussion of sensor specifications. Sad but true, it is all about marketing, and given fact that Pentax is Flying well below the consumer radar.
05-24-2012, 04:38 PM   #28
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you know, it's better to have a very good 16mpx that allow to crop a lot without grain, than a average 24mpx that will show grain when resize.

I have a 12mpx K-x and i did lot of crop, printed in A4 size without problem.

16mpx are enought when it come to crop, even big crops.


And don't forget, pixel is not everything : ergonomics come a lot in range, look about that first.
05-24-2012, 05:52 PM - 1 Like   #29
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QuoteOriginally posted by jmg257 Quote
Have you actually read the D3200 specs?? Other then 24MP, it offers NOthing over the K-30...and fails in numerous (important) feature comparisons.

As posted in another thread - 'weird how manufacturers release dumb cameras for ignorant people'. Simply produce a severly crippled body but stick a big MP sensor in there (with corresponding big files and slow processing, framerates etc.), price it entry level - and people go nuts.
And that's exactly why people will prefer Nikon over Pentax. More megapixels and Nikon name is better than less megapixels + uncrippled camera, weather sealing, in body AF motor, two control wheels and so on.
05-24-2012, 06:35 PM   #30
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QuoteOriginally posted by Edvinas Quote
And that's exactly why people will prefer Nikon over Pentax. More megapixels and Nikon name is better than less megapixels + uncrippled camera, weather sealing, in body AF motor, two control wheels and so on.
You said it... because of the Nikon name, even if Pentax puts the same megapixels with all these good features... people (those absolutely clueless) will still pick Nikon. So, it is not necessarily a good strategy to be "me-too" and then some. It takes time to gain traction, and until then that strategy may actually work. It is getting better but don't think that we are there yet.
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