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06-16-2012, 09:18 PM   #46
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It doesn't seem right to compare actual shooting experience of one camera to the spec sheet of another. I would not underestimate the D3200. Its IQ is no improvement over its predecessor but it's a powerful little DSLR. I do think the IQ of the K-30 will be better, but whether it provides an overall better shooting experience remains to be seen. This discussion sort of reminds me when the D7000 and 60d came out 2 years ago. Everybody looked at the spec-sheet and declared Nikon the clear winner with its D7000 in the mid-range DSLR category. But when the rubber met the road, there were some key areas that the 60d excelled over the D7000. It wasn't a better camera overall, but, there wasn't as clear of an advantage as everybody assumed it would be. Moral of the story: Let's wait until people get the K-30 in their hands to find out if it's as good as Pentax promises it will be.

06-17-2012, 06:24 PM   #47
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QuoteOriginally posted by vapentaxuser Quote
It doesn't seem right to compare actual shooting experience of one camera to the spec sheet of another. I would not underestimate the D3200. Its IQ is no improvement over its predecessor but it's a powerful little DSLR. I do think the IQ of the K-30 will be better, but whether it provides an overall better shooting experience remains to be seen. This discussion sort of reminds me when the D7000 and 60d came out 2 years ago. Everybody looked at the spec-sheet and declared Nikon the clear winner with its D7000 in the mid-range DSLR category. But when the rubber met the road, there were some key areas that the 60d excelled over the D7000. It wasn't a better camera overall, but, there wasn't as clear of an advantage as everybody assumed it would be. Moral of the story: Let's wait until people get the K-30 in their hands to find out if it's as good as Pentax promises it will be.
from what I see, there are two reasons that people would consider the K30 over the K-5. the K-5 could be the better camera overall, but the main selling point of the K30 is the focus peaking feature and aesthetic build.
06-18-2012, 05:19 AM   #48
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QuoteOriginally posted by vapentaxuser Quote
It doesn't seem right to compare actual shooting experience of one camera to the spec sheet of another. I would not underestimate the D3200. Its IQ is no improvement over its predecessor but it's a powerful little DSLR. I do think the IQ of the K-30 will be better, but whether it provides an overall better shooting experience remains to be seen. This discussion sort of reminds me when the D7000 and 60d came out 2 years ago. Everybody looked at the spec-sheet and declared Nikon the clear winner with its D7000 in the mid-range DSLR category. But when the rubber met the road, there were some key areas that the 60d excelled over the D7000. It wasn't a better camera overall, but, there wasn't as clear of an advantage as everybody assumed it would be. Moral of the story: Let's wait until people get the K-30 in their hands to find out if it's as good as Pentax promises it will be.
While I agree with your "let's wait and see when its in our hands" attitude, as regards shooting experience, the front dial and pentaprism are very big plusses for the K-30. There's going to have to be one heck of a downside to offset those benefits.
06-18-2012, 06:30 AM   #49
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QuoteOriginally posted by Pentaxor Quote
from what I see, there are two reasons that people would consider the K30 over the K-5. the K-5 could be the better camera overall, but the main selling point of the K30 is the focus peaking feature and aesthetic build.
We'll have to see if the AF also improved

06-18-2012, 12:12 PM   #50
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Look more carefully at the DXO measurements!

QuoteOriginally posted by Freak Quote
Not according to DxO it doesn't:

24Mp Score - 81 (Overall) - 24.1bits (Colour Depth) - 13.4ev (Dynamic Range)

16Mp Score - 77 (Overall) - 23.6bits (Colour Depth) - 12.7ev (Dynamic Range)

Shows the 24Mp gets a better overall, colour depth and dynamic range score, and only marginally loses in ISO ability. So resolution, colour, and dynamic range are all better on the 24Mp compared to 16Mp sensors. Having said all that the differences in this case would be very hard to notice on images.
Some people here seem to think the new 24MP sensor on the D3200 will be "better" than the one on the 16MP upcoming K30. No, not entirely correct as you do have to interpret the curves provides by DXO. Here's how I interpret the DXO measurement data for the K-01 vs the D3200. I use the SNR curve as a proxy for the noise characteristics. Also, and this is very important: For my interpretation below, I use measured ISO and not marked ISO on the camera. The D3200 does suffers because the camera's sensitivity is not as accurate as that of the K-01. For example, if you dialed in ISO 800 on both cameras, the actual ISO is 703 on the K-01 and 571 on the D3200. What does this mean to you? Well, it means to achieve similar exposures with both camera, you can shoot the K-01 at slightly faster shutter speeds than that of the D3200. Or better yet, you can also, use a slightly lower ISO on the Pentax than the Nikon to achieve identical shutter speeds at the same aperture.

According to the DXOmark measurement data, the only point at which the D3200 bests the K-01 is at ISO 100. The noise is similar for both, but the DR of the D3200 is about a third of a stop better. For those of you that shoot primarily at base ISO (i.e landscapers), the D3200 should yield slightly better quality images, at least on paper. However, at higher ISO's where many general shooters tend to shoot, the D3200 advantage is lost. Also, the D3200 is not what I consider a landscape camera because of it's crippled functionality.

At ISO 200 or 400, the noise and DR of both these cameras is nearly identical.

At ISO 800, the noise is the same, but the DR of the K-01 is about 1/2 stop better, partially because of the K-01's more accurate sensitivity.

At 1600, the noise is the same, but the DR of the K-01 has slipped a bit, but is still ahead by 1/3 of a stop.

At 3200, the K-01 bests the D3200 in noise by about 1/2 stop and the dynamic range by about a 1/3 stop.

At 6400, the K-01 beats the D3200 in noise (1/2 stop) and dynamic range (3/4 stop).

I really don't see much advantage of the new 24MP sensor. In fact, I think it is a step backwards compared to the Sony 16MP. However, I think Nikon will sell a ton of them, mostly to people who just look at MPs (and price) at the expense of everything else.
06-18-2012, 08:25 PM   #51
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If what Pentax achieved with the Sony 12MP and 16MP sensors is anything to go by, then one might imagine that they can pull a little more out of the 24MP than Nikon.

If so, 24MP actually has some interest for me, as I do use telephoto a lot and being able to aggressively crop is a great benefit.
06-19-2012, 07:04 AM   #52
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weather proofing trumps the D3200!
07-19-2012, 11:00 AM   #53
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When I look at D3200 I see a sad sign from Nikon. Instead of competing directly with Pentax's new offering based on technical merits (which is what I would expect from the industry leader) I see them playing to the old Megapixel Battle.

And what kind of lenses and memmory cards are you going to have to buy to actually take advantage of that nice 24MP sensor? True the Bayonette is compatible with everything Nikon ever made, but what lenses out of all that lineup is meant for that sensor size? *sigh* With that D3200 you're going to have to play a lot of guessing games to decide which lenses work and which ones do not. Does the Nikon community work it's legacy equipment the way Pentax does?

You can't deny that when you really look at it, Nikon directly pitched this camera at competing with Pentax's new offerings. Cannon doesn't really have anything that competes with K-30 or K-01. All Nikon really COULD do to beat K-30's price point was throw a 24MP sensor into a highly crippled body and play the MP game. That's a VERY cheap shot. If they had better they would have done it because well, they ARE the market leader, right?

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07-19-2012, 11:09 AM   #54
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QuoteOriginally posted by ScreamingIdiot Quote
When I look at D3200 I see a sad sign from Nikon. Instead of competing directly with Pentax's new offering based on technical merits (which is what I would expect from the industry leader) I see them playing to the old Megapixel Battle.

And what kind of lenses and memmory cards are you going to have to buy to actually take advantage of that nice 24MP sensor? True the Bayonette is compatible with everything Nikon ever made, but what lenses out of all that lineup is meant for that sensor size? *sigh* With that D3200 you're going to have to play a lot of guessing games to decide which lenses work and which ones do not. Does the Nikon community work it's legacy equipment the way Pentax does?

You can't deny that when you really look at it, Nikon directly pitched this camera at competing with Pentax's new offerings. Cannon doesn't really have anything that competes with K-30 or K-01. All Nikon really COULD do to beat K-30's price point was throw a 24MP sensor into a highly crippled body and play the MP game. That's a VERY cheap shot. If they had better they would have done it because well, they ARE the market leader, right?

I think the D3200 is much better than Canon's supposedly new Rebel.
07-19-2012, 11:16 AM   #55
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Whoopie. Why are we even talking about Canon at this point?
07-19-2012, 11:27 AM - 1 Like   #56
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QuoteOriginally posted by ScreamingIdiot Quote
Whoopie. Why are we even talking about Canon at this point?
because they suck.
07-19-2012, 03:35 PM   #57
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There is no comparison between these two. That 24 mp sensor is an absolute dog with noise apparent at all ISO settings, rather marked above 400 and horrendous above 1600.
07-19-2012, 03:55 PM   #58
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We haven't seen a D5200 yet. The D5100, having the same sensor as the K-5 and K-30, has ranked very well in the DxO tests. I don't think the D3200 is meant to be a direct competitor with the K-30. We also haven't seen what DSLR, if any, Pentax will position below the K-30. Whatever the case, I'll bet that anything the competitors offer in the same price range as the K-30, or lower, won't have WR, front and rear dials, or a pentaprism.
07-19-2012, 04:16 PM   #59
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In fact Gizmodo used the D3200 to take photos of the K30 and they are dreadful.
https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/pentax-k-30/190175-k-30-review-gizmodo.html
07-19-2012, 04:23 PM   #60
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QuoteOriginally posted by TomTextura Quote
We haven't seen a D5200 yet. The D5100, having the same sensor as the K-5 and K-30, has ranked very well in the DxO tests. I don't think the D3200 is meant to be a direct competitor with the K-30. We also haven't seen what DSLR, if any, Pentax will position below the K-30. Whatever the case, I'll bet that anything the competitors offer in the same price range as the K-30, or lower, won't have WR, front and rear dials, or a pentaprism.
I honestly don't think that we will see entry level dSLR lower than k-30...
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