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06-25-2012, 10:31 AM   #16
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QuoteOriginally posted by monochrome Quote
FFS I've been here for 5 years and all I've ever heard is no effing marketing, no effing marketing. Now they're marketing and all I'm hearing is, "Well that tears it. An effing lightweight model is marketing."
I'm out. Who wants some nice K lenses?
The best ad's that they have put out are the rugged optio ad's - perfect, straight to the point in the ads, can't get no clearer.

So, instead of some great marketing that shows off it's weather sealing, um, like some marketing partnerships with Bass Pro Shop's or the likes, we get this:

"Yes, Now You Too Brainless Blonde Supermodel On The 300 Calorie A Day Diet, You Can Pull Out The K30 And Shoot Like The Pro's"

06-25-2012, 10:33 AM   #17
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QuoteOriginally posted by vonBaloney Quote
Why not? If they can get it into Walmart, they'd be foolish not to.
Actually, it might be foolish. Pentax in Walmart might give Pentax the "cheap" stigma, and I don't think that's where Ricoh wants to take the brand.

K-Mart damaged Martha Stewart's cachet, for example.
06-25-2012, 10:58 AM - 1 Like   #18
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QuoteOriginally posted by luftfluss Quote
Actually, it might be foolish. Pentax in Walmart might give Pentax the "cheap" stigma, and I don't think that's where Ricoh wants to take the brand.

K-Mart damaged Martha Stewart's cachet, for example.
That's different -- that was an exclusive K-mart/Stewart partnership. That's different than just having Pentax next to the Canons and Nikons and Sonys at Walmart. And if it was a Walmart, it presumably would also be at Target, maybe CostCo, etc etc. Can't see how that would be bad. Also can't see how just because a marketing campaign doesn't apply to *you*, it somehow is damaging the brand. Celebrities hawking stuff works. Brand marketing works. Half the beer commercials in the world don't say a thing about the product -- they just show people enjoying it, and in some cases just have some horses running around or whatever. We constantly see posts on this forum about people telling them they had never heard of Pentax or didn't realize they still existed. What Pentax needs is the name Pentax to show up in as many places as possible in as many contexts as possible. If a hot model has one, that's not BAD right? As long as they don't have a campaign showing people getting clubbed over the head with Pentaxes, then the most important thing is just to get it out there -- Pentax Pentax Pentax. Familiarity legitimizes the brand in people's minds -- "oh I've heard of that, so it is ok to buy".
06-25-2012, 11:18 AM   #19
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QuoteOriginally posted by vonBaloney Quote
Why not? If they can get it into Walmart, they'd be foolish not to. Why would lots of "push the button" users bother you?
They already do bother me -> they are annoying, they get in everyone's way on the streets, I am tired of yelling at them and telling them to move out of my way and flickr has suffered from a rash of bad photos uploaded from these users.

No, seriously though, why not walmart? We can name many many brands that have been crushed after stocking at walmart, here's one (article does not mention walmart but that was indeed the start for them):
Remember Vivitar cameras? Here's what's in store next for the brand | ZDNet

06-25-2012, 11:26 AM   #20
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Walmart even sells the Nikon D7000, if this is what it take for companies to stay a float and fund future projects, why not. I'm buying the camera for what it is, not it's public image. I'm in on the Blue K30 (olive green preferred) but the stealth black is a no go due to weak eye's and button/location identification on the fly.

Take better pictures with this advanced Nikon Digital SLR Camera from Walmart.com. Save money. Live better.

Last edited by Condor637; 06-25-2012 at 01:22 PM.
06-25-2012, 11:31 AM   #21
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QuoteOriginally posted by joe.penn Quote
They already do bother me -> they are annoying, they get in everyone's way on the streets, I am tired of yelling at them and telling them to move out of my way and flickr has suffered from a rash of bad photos uploaded from these users.
So you don't want "just anyone" to have a camera, ok. An elitist. Maybe we should need a license. I'd rather lots of people buy them and keep the prices down.

QuoteQuote:
No, seriously though, why not walmart? We can name many many brands that have been crushed after stocking at walmart, here's one (article does not mention walmart but that was indeed the start for them):
Remember Vivitar cameras? Here's what's in store next for the brand | ZDNet
I dunno, seems like Vivitar has had a crappy reputation since about 1990. Walmart is known for dictating terms sometimes to get in their stores, i.e. "make it cheaper", but there is no reason Pentax would actually have to do that. All I was saying is that if they can get their cameras into mass market channels, they should do it.
06-25-2012, 11:36 AM   #22
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Let Walmart get the cheap lowest end model - to compete with the D3200 and the T4i.

Higher end models go to proper retailers.

Now we get mass market coverage of the name, with entry level people buying the entry level product, and upgrading because they have bought into the brand.
06-25-2012, 12:02 PM   #23
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QuoteOriginally posted by luftfluss Quote
K-Mart damaged Martha Stewart's cachet, for example.
Jail time did that too,

QuoteOriginally posted by joe.penn Quote
the brand at the time being known as the professionals choice [...] users that are serious in making pictures using the Pentax brand
That's where we differ. I love to take pictures. I use Pentax. Those are two separate things. I use Pentax because (at the time I started with them), they were a better bang-for-buck value proposition, and I like having SR on old lenses. Now I have several lenses that I love and I am quite used to the ergonomics/layout/menus of Pentax. However, I don't make pictures with the "Pentax brand", I make them with Pentax cameras.

How does the saying go? If you eat at a 5-star restaurant and complimenting the chef, you wouldn't say "Wow, you must have some nice pots and pans."

QuoteOriginally posted by joe.penn Quote
And look at the body's they are doing it with - the "pull it out and push the button" bodies sold at walmart and target, the exact crowd that those bodies were targeted for. Is the K30 the next Walmart camera? Is the K30 the next "Super Mom Who Now Is A Professional Photographer Making $10 Per Hour And Killing The Industry" camera?
I agree about Sony. At least their previous DSLRs seemed like the perfect Soccer Mom camera. But with Canon and Nikon, they have low-end cameras aimed at the Kutcher set, and they have mid-and high-end professional cameras, many of them with specific strengths that support specific types of professionals. In large part because of the sale of many, many low and mid-range bodies, Canikon can not only afford to R&D high end cameras, but offer a wide range of unique models (like the 1D Mk III for sports, 1Ds Mk III for studio, 5D for video/cinema, etc).

Pentax has exactly 3 APS-C cameras currently for sale. The K-01, which is clearly aimed at the fashion-conscious set, is a decent camera designed to compete with 4/3 and Sony's NEX. Nothing wrong with that. They have just introduced the K-30, which is their entry-level DSLR. Why shouldn't it be marketed like the T4i and the D3200? They have the K-5, which is a mid-range camera. It will soon be replaced by another mid-range camera, and hopefully with the revenue from the excellent bang-for-buck K-30, they will have money for R&D of a line of true high-end cameras. That's the only way for Pentax to become generally "known as the professional's choice."

QuoteOriginally posted by joe.penn:
Remember Vivitar cameras? Here's what's in store next for the brand | ZDNet
That's apples to oranges. Vivitar never had a respectable digital presence. Even in their film heyday, they didn't even have their own mount/system for their cameras, instead piggybacking of the K mount. They were much more comparable to Sigma than Pentax.

Something tells me that no matter what Pentax does, they won't be able to satisfy you. They just released an entry-level camera whose performance approaches (and in some ways surpasses) their still-current mid-range model. It's receiving lots of good press and they're marketing the heck out of it. How is that running the Pentax name into the ground?

06-25-2012, 12:50 PM   #24
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QuoteOriginally posted by joe.penn Quote
I ended up with Pentax many many years ago on it's merits of being able to deliver and the brand at the time being known as the professionals choice.
Pentax is living in the present. Are you? They're not a full-service pro camera system any more.

QuoteOriginally posted by joe.penn Quote
We can however blame Ricoh for driving the brand into the ground.
Wow - that was fast !! Eight whole months.
QuoteOriginally posted by joe.penn Quote
Most Pentax users (well, most users that are serious
there's that important word again.
QuoteOriginally posted by joe.penn Quote
in making pictures using the Pentax brand) want to see some of the profits that they are raping us for
That's a pretty bold accusation. Would you care to show me an analysis of Ricoh's Income Statement to back that one up? - because I sure would like to see proof of all this rapacious profit. And so would the enire investment community of the rest of the world.
QuoteOriginally posted by joe.penn Quote
put to good use in advertising to help build the brand back to where it once was - no wonder why the 3rd party glass makers are distancing themselves from Pentax.
Yeah. They certainly did respond to Hoya's careful stewardship of the brand.

QuoteOriginally posted by joe.penn Quote
And look at the body's they are doing it with - the "pull it out and push the button" bodies sold at walmart and target, the exact crowd that those bodies were targeted for. Is the K30 the next Walmart camera? Is the K30 the next "Super Mom Who Now Is A Professional Photographer Making $10 Per Hour And Killing The Industry" camera?
My future daughter-in-law will put a card at every seat at her wedding reception listing the link to an iPhone/Android app that will auto upload every photo to her personal wedding cloud site - thus putting the "Super Mom Who Now Is A Professional Photographer" out of business.
QuoteOriginally posted by joe.penn Quote
They already do bother me -> they are annoying, they get in everyone's way on the streets, I am tired of yelling at them and telling them to move out of my way and flickr has suffered from a rash of bad photos uploaded from these users.
Grow up. You don't have to look at Flickr. So don't.

Her father and I will spend between us north of $15,000 for engagement, rehearsal dinner, portrait, wedding and reception photos. We buy professional photos when they are warranted and we buy the best. We'll order perhaps 100 prints, framed, when all is said and done, many of them display-sized. Plus the Album and DVD.

Here's the relevant point. Her guy shoots Nikon - but get this, Joe. I showed him my K-01. He liked it for what it is - a nice camera for my needs, as they are. He suggested I pass it around the rehearsal dinner and let everyone take stills or movies to give to the couple. He's not a snob - he's a pro.

Of course, that's what gave my future daugfhter-in-law the idea to set up the cloud site.

Last edited by monochrome; 06-25-2012 at 01:36 PM.
06-25-2012, 12:50 PM   #25
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QuoteQuote:
FFS I've been here for 5 years and all I've ever heard is no effing marketing, no effing marketing. Now they're marketing and all I'm hearing is, "Well that tears it. An effing lightweight model is marketing."
+1

I agree fully, heard nothing but complaints about lack of advertising/marketing for years, now a promotion comes out, what do we get, more complaining. Is there no pleasing some people?

For G.. Sake, lighten up.
06-25-2012, 12:56 PM   #26
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QuoteOriginally posted by monochrome Quote

Here's the relevant point. Her guy shoots Nikon - but get this, Joe. I showed him my K-01. He liked it for what it is - a nice camera for my needs, as they are. He suggested I pass it around the rehearsal dinner and let everyone take stills or movies to give to the couple. He's not a snob - he's a pro.
Your dude is brilliant. That's an awesome idea.
06-25-2012, 12:57 PM   #27
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QuoteOriginally posted by Ryan Trevisol Quote
That's where we differ. I love to take pictures. I use Pentax. Those are two separate things. I use Pentax because (at the time I started with them), they were a better bang-for-buck value proposition, and I like having SR on old lenses. Now I have several lenses that I love and I am quite used to the ergonomics/layout/menus of Pentax. However, I don't make pictures with the "Pentax brand", I make them with Pentax cameras.

How does the saying go? If you eat at a 5-star restaurant and complimenting the chef, you wouldn't say "Wow, you must have some nice pots and pans."
And yes, this is where we differ, as you noted you take pictures. But the "How does the saying go?" quote has nothing to do with the discussion of marketing, or does it?

QuoteOriginally posted by Ryan Trevisol Quote
They have just introduced the K-30, which is their entry-level DSLR. Why shouldn't it be marketed like the T4i and the D3200? They have the K-5, which is a mid-range camera.
The K30 is the new mid-level camera in the lineup, the K01 is an entry level camera (as marketed), the K5 was never labeled as a mid range camera and has always been marketed as a prosumer alternative to the more expensive professional choices of Nikon and Canon, same when the K7 was the flagship, also same when the K20 was the flagship.

QuoteOriginally posted by Ryan Trevisol Quote
Something tells me that no matter what Pentax does, they won't be able to satisfy you. They just released an entry-level camera whose performance approaches (and in some ways surpasses) their still-current mid-range model. It's receiving lots of good press and they're marketing the heck out of it. How is that running the Pentax name into the ground?
No, they won't be able to satisfy me, funny how I am pretty vested in Pentax though being a very unsatisfied customer . Also, the entry level camera [K01] has been out for a few months now and I don't think it will approach (or surpass) the mid-range model [K30], at least the specs don't show it. Most eyes in Pentax land are waiting for the K5 replacement [the prosumer pentax model] which should be in typical Pentax form a slam dunk (just as the K5, K7 and K20 all have been).
06-25-2012, 01:05 PM   #28
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@monochrome - Listen, I don't know why you feel the need to be aggressive, nobody on this thread has been aggressive. Do you have a problem or something?
06-25-2012, 01:08 PM   #29
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QuoteOriginally posted by Bramela Quote
+1

I agree fully, heard nothing but complaints about lack of advertising/marketing for years, now a promotion comes out, what do we get, more complaining. Is there no pleasing some people?

For G.. Sake, lighten up.
+1

In addition, this is a facebook promotion with a competition tie-in, which is a very efficient form of advertising.
06-25-2012, 01:12 PM   #30
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QuoteOriginally posted by joe.penn Quote
But the "How does the saying go?" quote has nothing to do with the discussion of marketing, or does it?
Of course it does. Just like you wouldn't identify a chef by his choice of knife or cookware brand, you shouldn't identify yourself by the brand you shoot. Just make pictures with whatever camera works for you and be happy.
QuoteOriginally posted by joe.penn Quote
The K30 is the new mid-level camera in the lineup, the K01 is an entry level camera (as marketed), the K5 was never labeled as a mid range camera and has always been marketed as a prosumer alternative to the more expensive professional choices of Nikon and Canon, same when the K7 was the flagship, also same when the K20 was the flagship.
Funny how the K-01 isn't listed on Pentax's Products->DSLR page but rather on the Hybrid page alongside the Q. The K-r is still on the DSLR page but it's discontinued at retailers. Also funny how the marketing materials at B&H mention that the K-30 is a "great entry for hobbyists looking to purchase a DSLR for the first time, or photographers who need a newer camera with a more rugged construction and larger sensor."

QuoteOriginally posted by joe.penn Quote
No, they won't be able to satisfy me, funny how I am pretty vested in Pentax though being a very unsatisfied customer . Also, the entry level camera [K01] has been out for a few months now and I don't think it will approach (or surpass) the mid-range model [K30], at least the specs don't show it. Most eyes in Pentax land are waiting for the K5 replacement [the prosumer pentax model] which should be in typical Pentax form a slam dunk (just as the K5, K7 and K20 all have been).
Well then I guess I don't understand your position. You think (at least you said) Pentax is raping you on prices, they're being run into the ground by Ricoh, but you also say you are a satisfied customer? You're sure Pentax will knock it out of the park with the K-5 replacement, but you're dismissing the K-30, not on its merits, but just because of one ad campaign, a campaign that isn't even running in the country you live in?
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