[lammie200]

... One of the reasons, I temporarily gave up on the K-5 (and all DSLRs) last year is because some guy on Flickr bought a K-5 and couldn't figure out how to use it right (and seemed to stop using it and reverted back to his P&S cameras). That scared me...

Keep in mind that you can exert an enormous amount of control over how you set up your camera. Being a computer tech yourself, you probably have a good handle on how to isolate issues. There is no reason to overwhelm yourself. Even in M mode the camera can operate nearly as easily as a P & S if you understand a few basics about photography.

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Last edited by lammie200; 07-08-2012 at 08:26 PM.

[Welfl]

Keep in mind that you can exert an enormous amount of control over how you set up your camera. Being a computer tech yourself, you probably have a good handle on how to isolate issues. There is no reason to overwhelm yourself. Even in M mode the camera can operate nearly as easily as a P & S, if you understand a few basics about photography.

Thank you. You stated one of the reasons that I've kept using to build up my courage (M mode), but I wouldn't want to stick with it permanently. If I did, I wouldn't have a very good reason for upgrading to a DSLR. I have also slowly grasped the idea of the careful, yet multiple "balancing acts" between ISO, aperture and shutter speed, and I can think of a number of ways to have creative fun with them. Believe it or not, my fellow students and I were never taught the finer details of that balancing act in our two beginner photography classes in college in 1979-80, only the basics of ASA (ISO) and how to properly frame shots and how to compose based on the available lighting, all of which I used to good advantage. If we were ever told about aperture controlling the depth of field, I must have been flirting with the cute girl in class that day (if I could go back in time and have a word or two with those two instructors -- and myself --, I would do it ).

As for having lots of control over how to set up the camera, that is one thing that worries me, because it will require me to have a firm grasp on all the different ways i can set it up. Ha.

[Edgar_in_Indy]

Well, to be honest, I wasn't necessarily only picking on Pentax with my "crazy" comment, since most expensive APS-C DSLRs can fit in one hand. As a relative newcomer to the world of DSLRs, I feel that all camera manufacturers have an inflated sense of the value of their DSLRs.

I remember 3 or 4 years ago when I was looking at upgrading from one point & shoot to another point & shoot (hoping that the new one wouldn't be so crappy indoors), I would see the $800 and $900 DSLR's in the store and think how "crazy" it was to spend that much on a camera. Now, a few years later, I just spent over $1000 on a single lens, and was happy to have gotten it for as cheaply as I did. So I guess whether a price is "crazy" is all just a matter of perspective.

[Welfl]

So I guess whether a price is "crazy" is all just a matter of perspective.

Very true, but one always has to consider the thought processes of the people who set those prices and how pervasive their type of mindset is in the world today. Not all high prices are high because the companies would barely scrape by if they were to lower them to some degree. Apple, Inc., whose computers I've defended vociferously since 1988, is a prime example of a company who has always charged waaaaaaaaaaaaayyyyyyyyy more than they ever needed to in order to survive and prosper. In fact, they charged such radically high prices for their computers in the 1980s and early 1990s that it almost put them out of business, yet they refused to change their ways throughout most of that time period, possibly, in part, because they had fanatically loyal customers who not only did not care how much Apple charged, but defended their right to do it. I have been an Apple technology defender for the past 24 years, but I have never been an Apple, Inc., defender. I have personally been associated with businesses that charged a lot more for one item than another, even though there was very little, if any, real difference between them. It's just that one of those items was marketed as a higher quality product than the other, when that wasn't necessarily true (one business sold the exact same amount of one product, but the shape of the containers made one LOOK larger than another, so they charged more for it; they had absolutely no qualms of conscience about doing this!!!). That type of business philosophy has won out in the modern world and is so pervasive that most people think it is normal and acceptable and have no problem with it; therefore, people like me sound like outdated or naive radical nuts who just won't get with the program.

But this has nothing to do with the K-30 itself, so I should probably save it for another time and place.

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Last edited by Welfl; 07-08-2012 at 02:16 PM.

[Welfl]

Hope to give it a workout this weekend.

How is your weekend photo shoot going? Have you had a chance to take any photos that contain lots of bright light and dark shadows? I look forward to seeing some of what you have taken!

[barondla]

Welfl, I understand your hesitation. Picking out expensive technical equipment can be very stressful. Sometimes I know exactly what I want, other times it is a Robby the Robot melt down with no clear winner.

Maybe this will help. From shooting the K-5 and K-30 I would put them on an equal image quality footing. For image quality alone I would pick the K-30. Why? Because it ( and the K-01) is sharper than the K-5. True, the K-5 wins on dynamic range but every picture requires sharpness (unless you are a soft focus proponent). Only some pictures will benefit from the slightly extra dynamic range.

Don't let the 12 bit /14 bit thing side track you. We don't look at numbers. We look at pictures. From what I have seen of the Canon APS-c cameras 14 bit doesn't help over come the 12 bit of the K-30. Just because you have those extra 2 bits doesn't mean you are making good use of them! The Pentax K20D once had a processor that did 20 or 21 bits. The K-5 smokes it for image quality ( my K20D is staring from the camera bag at me).

Have shot the K-30 some more. Waiting for evening time since it is still 98 degrees here. Went out this morning to fetch the paper and the Bigma fogged up. Here are a few shots with high contrast.

thanks
barondla

[Edgar_in_Indy]

The K-5 smokes it for image quality ( my K20D is staring from the camera bag at me).

Awk-ward!

[bwDraco]

@barondla: You mentioned that the in-body AF motor was "very quiet", and the AF system exhibited almost no hesitation. Just wondering: How loud is the new in-body AF motor? With a screwdrive AF lens mounted, try pressing the shutter button halfway while the lens release button is held down, so that the motor spins freely. Also, how does the K-30 handle fast-moving subjects compared to the K-5? Post test photos of fast-moving subjects shot using AF-C, comparing the K-5 and K-30.

--DragonLord

[Welfl]

Welfl, I understand your hesitation. Picking out expensive technical equipment can be very stressful. Sometimes I know exactly what I want, other times it is a Robby the Robot melt down with no clear winner.

Great comment! I'm also glad you are back to reclaim your thread.

Maybe this will help. From shooting the K-5 and K-30 I would put them on an equal image quality footing. For image quality alone I would pick the K-30. Why? Because it ( and the K-01) is sharper than the K-5. True, the K-5 wins on dynamic range but every picture requires sharpness (unless you are a soft focus proponent).

That is an excellent endorsement. It is just what I wanted to hear. That alone, coming from a K-5 user, has probably sold me more than anything else so far. -- And, no, I am not a soft-focus proponent.

Only some pictures will benefit from the slightly extra dynamic range.

This I know. I've reminded myself of it every time I think about this topic; but then people challenge me on my comments (which I don't mind at all!!!), and suddenly this minor quibble turns into a major debate. Since my initial comments are sometimes misunderstood due to their not being in full context, I then feel obligated to present my positions in greater detail. It only seems that this topic is a federal case for me after the debates have begun. Yes, it is (or rather was) an issue for me, but certainly not a do-or-die one. My wordy replies were more about explaining myself than anything else.

Informed, real-world comments like yours on 12-bit versus 14-bit, especially when compared to the overall quality of K-30's images, are the most reassuring ones of all. Besides that, I've seen the amazing quality of the K-01's images in the K-01 forum. I just don't care for the K-01 itself.

Don't let the 12 bit /14 bit thing side track you. We don't look at numbers. We look at pictures.

Actually, I would never have known why the K-01's (and thus the K-30's) dynamic range isn't quite as amazing as that of the K-5 until I read the comments of others about what was causing the difference. I clearly saw the difference with my own eyes, regardless of the actual numbers (for some reason, the fact that there are different levels of RAW didn't even occur to me at the time). Once I learned what those numbers meant, I used them only as points of reference.

From what I have seen of the Canon APS-c cameras 14 bit doesn't help over come the 12 bit of the K-30.

Well, of course it doesn't help! Canon cameras don't use the same amazing sensor as the Pentax cameras do, nor do they have the same excellent supporting technology, so it is a given that 14-bit RAW won't help Canon images. I know someone who bought a Canon DSLR two or three years ago. That's what made me decide to start researching DSLRs myself. I have generally been underwhelmed by the quality of the images from that camera. They are nice, but certainly nothing like what the K-5 and K-30 can produce.

Here are a few shots with high contrast.

Those are excellent quality images! And the bokeh is superb!

I hope this is my last excessively wordy comment on your thread!

[TJWest]

@Barondia, those picuture look quite nice, I am more and more impressed with this camera! Thanks for your efforts, keep them coming please

[lammie200]

As for having lots of control over how to set up the camera, that is one thing that worries me, because it will require me to have a firm grasp on all the different ways i can set it up. Ha.

Actually I was trying to get the opposite point across. If you don't understand something then don't use it until you do. You can still snap away. It can be as simple or complex as you want it to be. Prioritizing and isolating the parameters in fundamental ways are key. I may not be using my cameras to their fullest capabilities (AF'ing being one of them), but I get a lot of satisfaction with what I do.

[TJWest]

Actually I was trying to get the opposite point across. If you don't understand something then don't use it until you do. You can still snap away. It can be as simple or complex as you want it to be. Prioritizing and isolating the parameters in fundamental ways are key. I may not be using my cameras to their fullest capabilities (AF'ing being one of them), but I get a lot of satisfaction with what I do.

And with any hobby, it is about having fun!

[jake14mw]

Barondla, thanks for taking the time to post for us. Looking forward to more.

[Welfl]

Actually I was trying to get the opposite point across. If you don't understand something then don't use it until you do. You can still snap away. It can be as simple or complex as you want it to be.

I understood what you were saying. As usual, I didn't explain myself fully in my reply. Naturally, I would not use those functions until I understood them. My point is that owning such an "expensive" camera will make me feel obligated to try to learn them sooner or later. If I don't do that I will feel as if I have been very frivolous with my money. And therein lies the rub: I, a technologist, am kinda sorta burned out on learning new technology. Believe it or not, I'm still using the no-frills cell phone that I bought in February 2002, because I don't want to have to learn how to use one of the new billion-and-one-features models.

P.S. I am still looking forward to just "snapping away" with a K-30 "when" I get one.

[sirluke]

I don't think that Pentax has made the K-01 and the K-30 12 bit on purpose, just to differentiate them from the upper level bodies. The ADC (and so the number of bits) is not on the Image Processor (Prime) but on the image sensor.
So, I think that the K-01 and K-30 just have a lower price sensor evolved from the k-5 sensor (and D7000 and other Sony's) that is equipped with 12bit ADC. Also we should think that the new sensor has about double the read rate of the K-5 one, to help live view focusing speed and video capture and going from 14bits to 12bits lowers the bandwidth required of 25% (since 14bit uses a whole 16bit word, wasting 2 bits).
It's all a trade off...

I'm sure we'll soon see a higher end model with dual Prime-M and 24Mpx@14bit sensor with fast readout in a high end body.

Luca