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07-21-2012, 06:33 PM   #1
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Shutter fires in video mode

Hello,

I'm new to this forum. I just purchased a Pentax K30 and had recently owned the K5 for very short time but 'upgraded' so to speak for the manual controls in video which the K5 lacked.

General impression of K30 over K5 build-wise is, the K5 did feel a bit more solid and sunstantial but the K30 is lighter which is also a benefit. I like the K30 grip better, really fits me.

Anyway, I think this might be a software bug, but sometimes in video mode the shutter fires when I start and then stop the video. Doesn't happen all the time - sometimes it acts like the K5 and is silent when depressing the shutter as, of course, its already in live mode. But on the K30 sometimes, even though it's already in live mode, the shutter actually fires when I start recording - similar to when going to a menu from live mode.

On the kit lens I was able to stop this behavior by zooming all the way in, but on my other prime lenses it's mixed bag, sometimes it happens sometimes it doesn't. Sometimes I have to turn the camera off and then back on, and then the shutter doesn't fire at video start. Tried all different settings and focus parameters but can't seem to solve it. Someone told me it might be a bad memory card but I have had a chance to try another. My card is new and level 10 so it should be fast enough.

So just wondering if I missing anything, or this is in fact a software bug. Went through the whole manual and searched the web but since its new there are not many in depth user reports.

Everything else works perfectly and its a fantastic camera - my old camera was an *ist Dl and this is big step up although I really like the simplicity of the UI on the that camera also.

D.W

07-22-2012, 12:24 PM   #2
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Don't have anything to add except that the same thing happened to me on my K-30. I've only tried the video five times so far. The shutter fired the first two times and so I thought that was an odd, but normal, part of the operation. Then I read your post and tried it three more times. The shutter did NOT fire those three times. All attempts were using the same lens -- an FA 50mm f1.4.
07-22-2012, 01:28 PM   #3
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I have the same lens, also the 2.8 pancake original. Both have the same issue, as does the kit lens.
07-23-2012, 08:24 AM   #4
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Its not trying to do stop down metering or somesuch?

07-23-2012, 08:58 AM   #5
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how would I know if the camera was doing stop-down metering? I tried in all modes P, Av, and M and it happens in all. what I'm wondering if anyone has a camera out there that is *not* exhibiting this behavior?
07-23-2012, 10:41 AM   #6
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If it happens with full manual lenses it is normal as the camera has to do a stop down metering before starting recording video.
If it also happens to AF lenses, maybe you have to clean the electronic pins on the lens and camera.
07-23-2012, 12:09 PM   #7
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Excuse in advance if I'm speaking out of ignorance (I'm pretty much a DSLR newbie), but would "zooming all the way in" as dwsiii has done make the stop down metering unnecessary? I'll say that my experience is exactly like his so far: with the 18-135mm kit lens, I do not get the shutter fire when I'm all the way at the 135mm end. If I pull back the focal length just a tiny amount, the shutter fires. And on my AF prime lens, it happens sometimes but not other times. I can certainly try cleaning my contacts tonight, but it does seem odd that the two of us have the exact same behavior (down to the full zoom vs non-full zoom difference in behavior).

If this isn't seen by anyone else, perhaps we both got defective cameras? It'd be very easy for anyone to notice -- try to take a video. When the video starts and stops, are those operations silent? Or is it accompanied by a noticeable shutter action that can be felt, heard, and (if you look), seen?
07-23-2012, 12:42 PM   #8
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If the camera do no longer sense that an AF lens is attached (bad contact between electric contacts on lens and camera) the camera will act as if an all manual lens is attached. And by default it is not possible to take a picture when a fully manual lens is attached.

When zooming out/in you might turn the lens in the mount a little, just enough to make contact again.

07-23-2012, 02:46 PM   #9
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My camera exhibited this behavior, brand new, straight out of the box, both lens and camera. I'm assuming the contacts were pretty clean at that point. Also, sometimes, with an AF prime, just turning off camera, and turning back on caused the lens firing to go away. No adjustment to lens made in that case. I shot video all day today. Everything works and looks great I might add, but that extra firing sure is annoying and did NOT happen on the K5 with the same lenses.
07-23-2012, 06:19 PM   #10
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Okay, I messed around with this a lot this evening and I think I can say with a good amount of certainty it is not an issue of dirty contacts. First, I cleaned my camera and lens contacts, but the behavior is the same. Second, I'd found a set of reproducible steps for when the shutter does and does not fire. It doesn't follow any obvious rhyme or reason, but I tried it three times and it went exactly the same way every time. Zooming was not involved in making the behavior change, so another piece of evidence against bad contacts. Below are my steps. dwsiii, I'd be very interested in seeing if you get this exact behavior. And, of course, if anyone else sees it, too:

With FA 50mm f1.4: Shutter fires in all instances EXCEPT when aperture is set to 4.0
With DA 16-45mm: Shutter fires in all instances EXCEPT when aperture is set to 4.0

And now the big one, that convinced me it was not some random occurrence. These steps worked the same way all three times I tried it on my 18-135mm kit lens:

1. Started at 18mm f3.5: shutter always fired.
2. Change only the aperture to 4: shutter never fired.
3. Change only the aperture back to 3.5: shutter always fired.
4. Change only the aperture back to 4: shutter never fired.
5. Change only the aperture to 4.5: shutter always fired.
6. Change only the aperture to 5: shutter always fired.
7. Change only the aperture back to 4: shutter never fired.
8. Zoomed in until aperture closed down to 4.5: shutter fired.
9. Press menu button, then half-press shutter release to return to live view: shutter did NOT fire
10. Change only the aperture to 5: shutter fired
11. Press menu button, then half-press shutter release to return to live view: shutter fired
12. Change only aperture back to 4.5: shutter fired
13. Press menu button, then half-press shutter release to return to live view: shutter fired
14. Turn aperture dial left ONCE as if opening up the aperture more. Nothing should appear to change because 4.5 is the widest it allows at this focal length: shutter did NOT fire
15. Zoom in until aperture closed down to 5.6: shutter did not fire
16. Turn aperture dial right ONCE to try and close the aperture more. It should go to 6.3 but it actually stayed at 5.6: shutter fired.
17. Turn aperture dial left ONCE as if opening up the aperture more. Nothing appears to change because 5.6 is the widest it allows at this focal length: Shutter did NOT fire
18. Turn aperture dial right ONCE to close the aperture more. Aperture went to 6.3: shutter fired.

In summary, some interesting things that seem to become obvious:
- f/4.0 seems like a safe zone, regardless of lens.
- Cycling to and from the Menu screen (also the replay screen) will sometimes "fix" the problem if you're already at the widest aperture allowed at that focal length.
- Turning the aperture dial in the direction of opening the aperture, even if already at the widest allowed, also sometimes fixes the problem.

Sorry, I know this is a huge reply, but hopefully it will give us all some concrete data on this possible bug. Again, would love to hear if others can or cannot reproduce these steps. Either way, I'll try to contact Pentax support shortly to see if I can get any feedback from them.

Last edited by mspoon; 07-24-2012 at 07:44 AM. Reason: Forgot to specify lens
07-23-2012, 08:22 PM   #11
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mspoon, clever person you are. For both my FA 50mm 1.4 and kit zoom that comes the camera (18-55), on F 4.0 the shutter *never* fires in video mode. For the 50mm I went through all other F stops and the shutter fired for every one.

For the kit lens, I could somehow break the pattern even on F 4.0, but pressing the menu button and then returning cured it but only on f4.0.

Also, tests in either M or Av seem to have the same effect, but there are literally hundreds of combinations and settings to try to find this, turning things on/off and all the f stops and film speeds etc so I don't want to test each.

Looking forward to seeing what Pentax has to say.
07-23-2012, 08:48 PM   #12
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Not the first time

I noticed something similar, in 2010 with my K-x

https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/pentax-video-hdslrs/117663-mirror-flips-video.html

I never got a pattern, never noticed the F stops. I had no manual control on the K-X
07-23-2012, 09:44 PM   #13
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Ack, left out a crucial bit of info: the lens I tried out that big set of steps on was the 18-135mm kit lens that came with my K-30. I just updated my post to properly mention that.
07-24-2012, 07:33 AM   #14
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I chatted with Pentax Live Support and had the following conversation:

Please wait while we find an agent to assist you...
You have been connected to Randall S.
Randall S: Thank you for contacting Pentax chat support mspoon, how may I help you?
mspoon: Hi! I purchased a K30 last week and I'm experiencing what may be a bug in the camera. When taking videos, the shutter seems to fire most, but not all of the time. If I'm at aperture f/4.0, it hardly ever fires, but at other apertures, almost always. Doing odd things like cycling the menu or zooming in/out slightly can change whether the shutter fires. Is this a known bug?
mspoon: There are more details in a forum, if you'd like concrete steps to reproduce what I and some others are seeing: https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/pentax-k-30/193296-shutter-fires-video-mode.html
Randall S: this is not a known issue in the camera. Is the video you're getting displaying evidence of shutter misfiring? ie: is the video jerky?
mspoon: No, I haven't noticed either of those. There's a bit of a rolling shutter effect, especially if SR is turned on, but that's probably unrelated. The main thing is that the shutter doesn't seem to need to fire b/c sometimes it does, sometimes it doesn't, hence making it kind of annoying.
Randall S: in video recording mode the camera is not actually using a mechanical shutter mechanism to acquire 30fps. The images are being sampled at the sensor while the mirror mechanism is being held up. All I can advise you is to send in your camera for examination if you think it is malfunctioning.
mspoon: And the mirror is supposed to go up right when you enter video mode, and stay up the entire time, right?
Randall S: also, you should be using at least a Class 6 memory card for adequate write speed.
Randall S: yes, the mirror has to be up for the sensor to record any image.
mspoon: Yes, I'm using a Class 10 card, so that shouldn't be an issue. Okay, what you're saying matches what I expect -- I shouldn't get any shutter movement at all in video mode. But I and several others in the forum are. Thanks for confirming that.
Randall S: Thank you for contacting Pentax chat support mspoon, have a great day!
Thank you for using InstantService. You may now close this window.
Your session has ended. You may now close this window.

So his advice was to send the camera in if I thought it was malfunctioning. Based on the fact that, so far, only me, dwsiii and Finger (but for the K-x) have reported seeing it, it would seem most others don't have this problem. Unless people are not seeing this thread and/or thinking it's normal behavior, like I did before dwsiii brought it up.

So can I kindly ask once more for what dwsiii asked for before: can any K-30 owners out there definitely say that they are NOT experiencing this problem? I just want to know that good units really are out there before I send mine in because, with my luck, I'll get the same thing back with no fix. :-(
07-24-2012, 08:09 AM   #15
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I only have the 18-135mm WR lens to test with, but the _only_ setting that does not trigger the shutter at the start and end of video recording is 18mm at f/4.0
Everything else (even other focal lengths with f/4.0) causes the shutter to fire at the start and end of recording.
This of course does not include what happens at the initial switch to LV mode.
While somewhat annoying the practical impact in unclear as it does not seem to effect the video.
It does make me wonder what is 'special' about 18mm at f/4 though.
I made sure to start with a fully charged Pentax battery to rule out the reported mirror flop issues with AA and 3rd party batteries on previous Pentax cameras.
I will follow this issue with interest, but not going to stress about it for now as it seems something that could be fixed in firmware.

Last edited by robwill; 07-24-2012 at 08:14 AM.
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