Forgot Password
Pentax Camera Forums Home
 

Reply
Show Printable Version Search this Thread
08-06-2012, 04:48 PM   #31
Forum Member




Join Date: Aug 2012
Photos: Albums
Posts: 50
Original Poster
C1 (CaptureOne) does not support DNG profiles but ICM profiles. I just started to test the free ICC Color Camera Calibrator (CoCa) available at www.dohm.com.au/cocad. The resulting ICM files work in principle with C1 but the correction of the wrong colors from K-30 DNGs is certainly a big effort. Perhaps you have to export in C1 the wrong color TIF files and use them in CoCa. Today I purchased a colorchecker classic test chart with 24 printed colors, so I am really at the beginning of a long journey. I will report if I can achieve useful results.

Update: I was sucessful after really quick and dirty first trial. At night in Europe I had only a tungsten light for profile generation, but the result was already acceptable. I exported with C1 the visible bad DNG picture of colorchecker chart as TIF. After processing with CoCa the ICC profile is available in C1 and the colors look at least a little bit like reality when this profile is applied. The new profile is located at C:\Windows\System32\spool\drivers\color and available in C1 under "Other".

For two profiles see: www.ey-com.de/captureone/k-30/, file "pentax_k-30_tungsten-test.icm" is just a test with the correct JPG file, but file: "pentax_k-30_tungsten-c1-wrong.icm" is a correction for the wrong colors of DNGs in C1 or any JPG/TIF exports from C1, which have not been modified before. Of course the color level is not correct (quick and dirty with Tungsten light) but the colors are no longer totally wrong in C1.

Of course I have some doubts that this procedure makes sense. After update of C1 for full support of K-30 such correction profiles will be useless. Until this update a correction ICM profile is only a unprofessional workaround, isn't it?


Last edited by Plentax; 08-07-2012 at 01:23 AM.
08-07-2012, 01:32 AM   #32
Veteran Member
Anvh's Avatar

Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 4,616
I can make ICM profiles, i've the colour card from Pantone but i don't have the K30, sorry.
That would be quite professional way.
08-07-2012, 08:26 AM   #33
Forum Member




Join Date: Aug 2012
Photos: Albums
Posts: 50
Original Poster
So I am finally lucky? I have both, the K-30 since 2 weeks and the x-rite 24 color ColorCheckerClassic since Yesterday.

Is it really professional to make such ICC profile effort for C1 (CaptureOne), which does not yet support K-30? May be there are more severe drawbacks than just wrong colors with K-30 DNG files in C1? And perhaps it would be wiser to wait for C1 upgrade?

With SilkyPix, Idimager (dcraw.dll), FPVC and other software I see a brightness variation of K-30 DNGs (color looks quite ok). Does it makes sense to create special DNG or ICM K-30 profiles for such programs or is there a risk, that K-30 DNG results will change with future SW updates? Or do you recommend repeating the profile generation after each raw converter SW update and check if there is any change?

If other C1 users like to test, feel free to use any DNG example, like www.ey-com.de/captureone/k-30/imgp0097_from_pentax-k30.dng
(16 MByte) and the rough C1 correction profile www.ey-com.de/captureone/k-30/pentax_k-30_tungsten-c1-wrong.icm (3 kByte).

With help of www.iccview.de here is the comparision of this C1 correction versus sRGB:


If there is interest or motivation from others in the forum, I can make a more reliable C1 correction ICC profile with sunlight and post it here.

Last edited by Plentax; 08-07-2012 at 08:46 AM.
08-07-2012, 09:51 AM   #34
Pentaxian




Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: GMT +10
Photos: Albums
Posts: 10,594
QuoteOriginally posted by Plentax Quote
Does it makes sense to create special DNG or ICM K-30 profiles for such programs or is there a risk, that K-30 DNG results will change with future SW updates?
There is always a risk, but go for it if you have the tools to do it.

However I think every RAW processor (LR, DxO, Aftershot, C1 etc) includes more than just accurate colour profiles in their RAW processing engine. Leaving aside the whole issue of colour rendering, C1 for example seems to be very good at extracting detail from some RAWs that other tools struggle with.

So producing a good K-30 DNG colour profile for C1 may be useful as an interim measure, but full support from C1 for K-30 RAWs (with all the other tweaks PhaseOne may make to deal with K-30 RAWs based on their research into the properties of the camera sensor) would still be very much worth waiting for.

08-07-2012, 10:04 AM   #35
Veteran Member
Anvh's Avatar

Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 4,616
That risk is there always even with the official C1 update.
Lightroom has have 2 major coding changes for example.
08-09-2012, 12:09 AM   #36
New Member




Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 15
Plentax(Joseph). I read your discussion with the Capture One guys. It did not seem very fruitful.
Yes I would like one of your home brew K30 daylight profiles.
I downloaded your K30 tungsten icm profile and wonder what I do with it on my Apple?
08-09-2012, 01:59 AM   #37
Pentaxian




Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: GMT +10
Photos: Albums
Posts: 10,594
QuoteOriginally posted by kevcol Quote
I read your discussion with the Capture One guys. It did not seem very fruitful.
I went through a similar process with K-x DNG's and PhaseOne. The team who admin the forum aren't the same team who staff the PhaseOne Support desk or write the code for C1. Issues discussed in the C1 forum don't always find their way into the Support queue, or into the C1 developer's work plan.

I would suggest that anyone who has any issues with C1 and the K-30's DNG's log into their C1 customer account and submit a support request asking for K-30 DNG's to be properly supported, especially as PEF is no longer an option for K-30.
08-09-2012, 06:31 AM   #38
Forum Member




Join Date: Aug 2012
Photos: Albums
Posts: 50
Original Poster
QuoteOriginally posted by rawr Quote
I went through a similar process with K-x DNG's and PhaseOne. The team who admin the forum aren't the same team who staff the PhaseOne Support desk or write the code for C1. Issues discussed in the C1 forum don't always find their way into the Support queue, or into the C1 developer's work plan. I would suggest that anyone who has any issues with C1 and the K-30's DNG's log into their C1 customer account and submit a support request asking for K-30 DNG's to be properly supported, especially as PEF is no longer an option for K-30.
Thank you for this comment. I went already through the process of P1 forum discussion AND official P1 support request. But I was suprirsed to have contact with the same person from P1 in the forum and at support. The feedback from support is a little bit more detailed than in the forum, but basically the message is the same. So K-30 users have to wait. May be the total number of K-30 tickets at P1 has an impact? So my recommendation is:
  1. All K-30 users: Please purchase a C1 license and register and create a ticket!
  2. All others: Please purchase a K-30 and continue with step 1.
QuoteOriginally posted by kevcol Quote
I read your discussion with the Capture One guys. It did not seem very fruitful. Yes I would like one of your home brew K30 daylight profiles. I downloaded your K30 tungsten icm profile and wonder what I do with it on my Apple?
Do you use C1 on apple? With windows I have to place ICC profile in the right system directory. Then this profile can be selected with C1. May be this is similar on apple? I plan to brew the K-30 daylight profile, but I am not sure about required light conditions. What is recommended: direct sunlight, indirect sunlight, blue sky, cloudy sky, K-30 ISO settings, zoom setting (from 18...135), multiple profiles, ...? I am not yet an expert with this.

I am still searching for a free good windows offline tool to make quick and graphical ICC (and DNG?) profile file comparisions. The online tool www.iccview.de is nice, but not really convenient for profiles with minor difference.


Last edited by Plentax; 08-09-2012 at 05:08 PM.
08-09-2012, 06:36 PM   #39
New Member




Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 15
Are you happy with your C1 jpgs?
I think they need tweaking as well. The reds can be inconsistent and go a bit violet. The blues can go a bit deep as well. They are good, but not quite there and this is with jpeg which you would think should be standard from camera to camera.
I like C1. It took me a long time to become conversant with it but now I find it natural and efficient. I use the little icons at the center top. The little straightening tool is a gem where you drag a line vertically or horizontally to correct a photo. I would like a greater variety of tools under one banner in the tools column so it was less fragmented. The color pallet thing defies me.
I opened Silkypix and was overwhelmed by its complexity and nomenclature. No image alterations I tried made any difference to my photo.
I am using Natural in jpg on the K30 and the jpeg file neutral icc profile with linear response on Capture One.
08-21-2012, 03:26 AM   #40
New Member




Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 15
PLENTAX - How is your Capture One daylight DNG profile going?

I am using your "Tungsten Wrong" profile everywhere and it is saving my bacon. I found an Apple directory to put it in and it comes up in "Other". It is not loaded as a default profile and I add it to each photo and it magically changes the purples to blue. It is not perfect but very very good. I have to back the saturation off a lot. I am glad to be using RAW files again and find they have a lot more detail compared with the jpgs which seem to have excessive noise reduction. Without a dng profile I had to resort to black and white photographs.
09-02-2012, 11:45 AM   #41
Forum Member




Join Date: Aug 2012
Photos: Albums
Posts: 50
Original Poster
QuoteOriginally posted by kevcol Quote
PLENTAX - How is your Capture One daylight DNG profile going?
Thank you for feedback and request and sorry for delay. I am back from two weeks summer vacation and had no time for profile generation.
500 DNG files from sunny Italy are now waiting for my handling with CaptureOne. So I am highly motivated to generate a better profile for C1.
Since I have to start after vacation immediately with bustines trips please wait some days until next weekend. Ok?.

By the way, I was very very happy with the K-30 during my first "DSLR vacation"!.
Not only with Ni-MH rechargaable 2700mAh AA-batteries and the salty sea-water resistance, but mainly with the fast and intuitive settings and buttons.
And of course with the resulting images!

Last edited by Plentax; 09-02-2012 at 11:57 AM.
09-02-2012, 02:27 PM   #42
New Member




Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Budapest
Posts: 16
Well, Adobe is probably days away from official K-30 support now. See here.

Regarding Phase One, I really like C1 Pro but it seems to me that the lack of proper DNG support may very well be deliberate. After all, why support the main rival's format? This might change though, once more manufacturers started adopting DNG for their cameras.

As for getting a license and submitting a support ticket... That does not guarantee that we'll get K-30 support. Also, can I get my money back? No. Looks like I'll be leaning towards Adobe now...
09-02-2012, 03:01 PM   #43
Veteran Member
Anvh's Avatar

Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 4,616
Phase one don't have his own universal format so it isn't really a rival in that sense.
It might change when DNG gets fully excepted as a standard but still that leaves it up to the developers to implement it or not...
Besides Phase One make also cameras so with the same thinking you can also say they are rivals of Pentax, Hassleblad, Leaf, Nikon, Canon, Leica, ect.

Lets just hope they will come with support like they always have in the past.
09-02-2012, 07:00 PM   #44
New Member




Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 15
Plentax - Good to see you back!
Likewise, I am going to India on Friday and was debating whether to take the Pentax due to the Capture One DNG hassle. Also because I bought a Canon 40mm/2.8 pancake for my Canon 550D and it performs much better than the 40/2.8 I bought with my K30 where definition and purple fringing is not as good, but it may have a bit to do with the poor colour performance in Capture One. (At the moment I am experiencing my Pentax world through purple tinted glasses)

I found a chart of 24 colour and gray patches in the back of one of my photography books but I could not use it with the software that creates profiles as it was not identical to the commercial chart.
I actually find it hard taking a photo of the colour patch and being pleased with the output I see on my 27" iMac monitor screen. There are a lot of variables. It is similar to the problems I had making a passport photo without a slight colour caste, for the trip to India. Each time I went to "Officework" to get the photos printed they had a different colour. A Fujifilm Service Technician happened to be there and said every photo lab is producing slightly different output. I am in Australia and a real industry (beaurocracy?) has built up around what a passport photo should look like and mine were rejected three times and I gave up and let the women in the Post Office take my photo. I had better luck with my home made photos for my Indian Visa although they changed the size requirement and were rejecting many customers.

I am thankful you are devoted energy to this project which I find a bit complex. I think you need to have a calibrated monitor, a commercial colour card and its software, plus be able to load the resulting photo into Capture One free of any changes Capture One may try and make and I hear it even alters raws a bit.

I did get a response from the Capture One crew saying they would not just make a profile to load into an existing program as it was more complicated than that and the camera should be integrated into a new version of the program and I don't think I am entitled to an update.
09-02-2012, 07:22 PM   #45
Pentaxian




Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: GMT +10
Photos: Albums
Posts: 10,594
So what do we have so far:

- DxO (full K-30 DNG support)
- Lightroom 4.2 RC (RC but fully functional K-30 DNG support)
- Silkypix as supplied with camera

Still to come:

- C1
- Aftershot Pro (but they have done K-01 )
- Aperture (Mac)
- RawTherapee
- others like dcraw, Darktable etc

So far DNG progress is not too bad.
Reply

Bookmarks
  • Submit Thread to Facebook Facebook
  • Submit Thread to Twitter Twitter
  • Submit Thread to Digg Digg
Tags - Make this thread easier to find by adding keywords to it!
couple, dng, issues, jpg, k-30, k-50, pentax, pentax k30, pentax k50, preview, size, software, tools
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
PEF or DNG file format consiglieri Troubleshooting and Beginner Help 12 11-11-2010 10:13 AM
K200d raw format: dng vs. pef tibbitts Pentax DSLR Discussion 7 03-04-2009 11:01 AM
DNG in-camera vs DNG from Lightroom? rfortson Digital Processing, Software, and Printing 9 11-02-2008 11:06 PM
K10D DNG format. Useless? Edvinas Pentax DSLR Discussion 8 09-19-2006 03:03 PM



All times are GMT -7. The time now is 04:24 PM. | See also: NikonForums.com, part of our network of photo forums!
  • Red (Default)
  • Green
  • Gray
  • Dark
  • Dark Yellow
  • Dark Blue
  • Old Red
  • Old Green
  • Old Gray
  • Dial-Up Style
Hello! It's great to see you back on the forum! Have you considered joining the community?
register
Creating a FREE ACCOUNT takes under a minute, removes ads, and lets you post! [Dismiss]
Top