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09-23-2012, 09:01 PM   #16
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Exwintech: You can assign 'optical preview' to the 'raw/fx' button - on page 165, under button customization.

I'm sorta new to full fledged DSLR's and I sorta stopped doing photography for a while since all I had was a bridge camera (Fuji Finepix S7000)... But am getting back into it with force since getting the K-30.

I too wish for better and more choices for programming the buttons... Either 1 or 2 more buttons MAY have been nice (albeit more confusing for me), but more options for the available buttons & dials would be more important - and HOPEFULLY will come in a firmware update.
(ESPECIALLY nice would be being able to assign focus-lock and AE-lock to different buttons!)


... The only thing is - is that I don't understand what 'optical preview' is supposed to do.. When using the Viewfinder, all that happens is the LCD screen goes blank - an in Liveview mode, all I hear is two mirror movements (and maybe shutter - can't tell for sure), and the nothing.
<sigh> So much to learn! Information overload!


Last edited by Hoggy; 09-25-2012 at 04:17 AM.
09-24-2012, 03:20 AM   #17
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Optical preview stops down the lens to the aperture that would be used when taking the photo, rather than the wide-open aperture that is normally active while composing. This is used to check depth of field. It remains stopped down while the button is pressed (if you only tap the button you may not see much happen), and if the shooting aperture is wide-open anyway, it won't stop down. I don't think I've ever tried it in liveview - you may need to look through the viewfinder then too.
09-24-2012, 12:29 PM   #18
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Optical preview: https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/pentax-k-5/182714-how-make-sense-depth-fi...-off-dial.html

I'd recommend some basic photography book if you don't know what effect changing aperture has on depth of field.

Moo, optical preview actually works in live view - it stops down lens to preset aperture. Since camera software tries to compensate for different light levels, it won't normally result in darkening of the LCD as it does when using viewfinder, but you can still see depth of field changes.
09-24-2012, 02:37 PM   #19
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Hoggy - Yes, thanks, was aware that RAW/fx can be assigned Optical Preview - as said in my previous post - "...Or - can the JPEG switch to RAW + JPEG on the RAW/fx button be assigned to another button so that can be used for Preview?..."

Problem is - if you do that - to change from JPEG-only to RAW or RAW + JPEG (RAW+ in the K30) - becomes a Menu-list change. If you select RAW + JPEG, but will tend more to use the JPEGs, you only have 8 shots Continuous, not the several seconds available to cover an action as JPEG-only.

The Advanced users will know from their lens type and setting, and target distance from the lens, what the depth of field is - but I certainly don't have that skills-level...!

The K30 - unlike my Canon SX10, doesn't have a Focus-Bracketing function - so can't use that instead to get (at 3 x pre-set-able distances) - "3 bites at the cherry".

With my Fuji HS10 - which doesn't have Focus-Bracketing - I certainly miss it... But then assumed, that all DSLRs would have that.... Oooops....!

That has to go along with other functions my much cheaper and older Bridge cameras have - that I just assumed something as advanced as an up-from-entry-level DSLR would have - and the K30 doesn't.


Jup - If you look at Manual Page 112 - it's apparently the Digital Preview that works in Live-View, and the Optical Preview that works with Viewfinder. Both can be assigned to the RAW/fx button - so you'd have to choose one or other, anyway.


- Perhaps Pentax could contact Fuji, to find out how to put more buttons on cameras - HS10 with 3" tilting LCD.....

(attrib. Fuji Australia.)



Regards, Dave.

09-25-2012, 03:18 AM   #20
jup
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QuoteOriginally posted by exwintech Quote
Hoggy

Jup - If you look at Manual Page 112 - it's apparently the Digital Preview that works in Live-View, and the Optical Preview that works with Viewfinder. Both can be assigned to the RAW/fx button - so you'd have to choose one or other, anyway.
Well, just try it. Assign optical preview to RAW/Fx. Go to Live view. Set aperture to f/22. Press and hold RAW/Fx button and mention how much more focused OOF objects become. You can also look at the aperture in the lens itself while holding the button and mention that it closes. I see what I see. Optical preview works in Live View just fine, although manual fails to mention that. And yes, it's kind of misnomer. But it comes very handy when shooting macro via LCD. And it even works with focus peeking on!

Note that digital preview is something different. It will take picture, then display it on LCD for long time and you can do more detailed check. I never found it very useful, since I can always just take picture and delete it afterwards.

I thing better names would be:
- optical preview -> live preview
- digital preview -> static preview
09-25-2012, 10:04 AM   #21
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Jup - Yes, I have tried Optical Preview on the RAW/fx button - yes, it does work - I wasn't saying it doesn't. But as I mentioned earlier, I want to have an external-button switch between JPEG-only and RAW + JPEG (or you can have RAW-only.) There's also the option to have that as a 1-shot-only function, or 'change-to' as a setting that 'sticks'. And 'change-back' to JPEG-only with one press of the button. I'm finding the ability to change from JPEG-only to RAW + JPEG - use that as needed - then back to JPEG-only - very convenient as a 1-button operation.

I'd just like another way to get at Optical Preview quickly.

It's a bit awkward getting used to K30's Live-View after being used to LCD on Bridge cameras for years - but it does magnify to check focus.

I've only had the K30 on a tripod 3 times so far - seems that if you use Manual mode you don't need to change the eyepiece for the viewfinder cover to avoid light 'leaking' into the images in other modes. With my Bridge cameras I tend to use the viewfinder on tripod rather than the LCD - so I'm doing that with the K30. Perhaps that's not correct - and why they supply a 'Viewfinder Cover' to stop the light leaking in modes other than Manual - while using the Live-View.

If the 'leaking light' is such a problem - you'd think they'd invent a "gate" or such in the viewfinder that flips closed with a lever or button - similar to opening the camera's flash....

Does seem that I have much to learn about this DSLR game...!

Regards, Dave.
09-25-2012, 02:42 PM   #22
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QuoteOriginally posted by exwintech Quote
... seems that if you use Manual mode you don't need to change the eyepiece for the viewfinder cover to avoid light 'leaking' into the images in other modes. With my Bridge cameras I tend to use the viewfinder on tripod rather than the LCD - so I'm doing that with the K30. Perhaps that's not correct - and why they supply a 'Viewfinder Cover' to stop the light leaking in modes other than Manual - while using the Live-View.

If the 'leaking light' is such a problem - you'd think they'd invent a "gate" or such in the viewfinder that flips closed with a lever or button - similar to opening the camera's flash....
.....

.
The 'light leaking' problem never affects the image itself (except in some extreme cases) - it only affects the exposure meter (and occasionally the autofocus). How much these are affected does not depend on what exposure mode the camera is in, except that if it is in manual then the incorrect exposure meter reading will of course not affect the actual exposure whereas if it is in an auto mode it would under-expose.

In live view the exposure and autofocus are unaffected (except in the same extreme cases)

For the light leakage to affect the image itself I have found that one needs to really deliberately try to actually affect the image. I tried a few experimental shots with the lens cap on. I did get light leakage but only in situations which I don't think will occur in real life.

I set the camera to maximum exposure (25,600) and 1 second exposure and made a shot with lens cap on. The camera was about 3 feet from a 35 watt halogen spotlight shining directly into the viewfinder. I got quite a bright image but then again it is far from being a realistic situation. At ISO 800 the image was completely black. In other words you need to be shooting an extremely dark subject with a very bright light shining behind you. The only situations I can imagine this happening is if you are shooting with a very dark ND filter to get long exposures in sunlight or perhaps using the camera with optical instruments such as a microscope, spectrometer or something of the sort.

The leakage onto the image is independent of whether you are in live view or not - when the camera is actually exposing the image it is in exactly the same configuration whether you composed in live view or via the viewfinder.

The only difference between live view and viewfinder is what happens before the exposure, in other words the metering and focusing. Here with the optical viewfinder the exposure meter (and to a lesser extent the autofocus) are quite easily affected by light leakage. Typically I find that any time my eye is not firmly against the viewfinder I am quite likley to get an underexposed image. Probably the best way to shoot with tripod is to get an exposure with your eye to the viewfinder (or better still cover it with your finger) then lock the exposure and only then release the shutter. (or just shoot in manual)

Having a gate of some sort built in might be a good idea but perhaps a better investment would be to improve the light sealing of the mirror when it is flipped up. The problem is most probably with the semi reflective part which is meant to lead light to the exposure and focus sensors. If you look at the back of the flipped up mirror you will see that there are actually flaps to close that path but it sems that they are not as effective as one might wish.
09-25-2012, 03:44 PM   #23
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Lister6520 - Thanks for that explanation. I've seen the 'light leaks' mentioned on another brand forum, not just here. That the light 'leaks' at all in all-brands' viewfinders is just a bit odd to hear about... Finding the Viewfinder Cap in the box with a new camera is a bit like finding a manual windscreen-wiper handle in the glovebox of a new "better brand" car...!

Actually, I did a few tripod shots in Aperture Priority mode to see what the dreaded light streaks look like - and didn't find any. That fits with what what you're explaining, so is quite a relief.

The other side of it is, with the K30 Manual mode is so surprisingly easy to use - getting the aperture-shutter-ISO balance is easier when the camera shows you exactly what you're doing - in my case, getting it wrong at first - but then being able to see how to correct it.

With my Fuji HS10, as it has a bucket of 'strange habits', I had to teach myself how to use Manual to be able to "tell it what to do" - which wasn't at all easy, but does actually work when you get the hang of it. The K30 in Manual is much easier to use - I thought a DSLR would be more complicated, but it shows you what you're doing as you do it, which is much better.

Thanks again, much appreciated!

Regards, Dave.

08-30-2013, 05:17 AM   #24
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I realize that this is an old thread, but I'm hoping reviving this may shed some light on my problem.

I recently got the K-30 as a replacement for my aging K200D. At first, I thought that DOF preview was completely
missing, but this thread pointed out that the Raw/FX button can be customized to provide this function.

However, there's one crucial difference between how this works and how the "extra postion" on the on/off switch worked on the K200D.

With an old manual lens, if you used the DOF preview switch on the K200D, the meter stayed active, and you could scan your scene and take meter readings while holding the switch in DOF preview position.

With the K-30, when you push the RAW/FX button to get DOF preview, the meter area in the viewfinder goes completely blank, so all you get is DOF preview - no meter readings. The only way to take a meter reading with an old lens is to push the green button. This doesn't really give you a meter reading, it just stops the lens down and sets your exposure. As other's have noted, this rarely results in a proper setting.

With my K200, I was accustomed to using DOF preview to do meter readings with old lenses. It wasn't perfect, but it worked better than the green button method.

Am I missing something? Is there a way to configure the K-30 so that the meter remains active during DOF preview ( aka Optical Preview ) ?

Cheers, Rick
08-30-2013, 06:25 AM   #25
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Hi Rick.

I have a k200d and a K30. I never used the DOF Preview as I tend to set the F stop to reflect what I want and check the LCD after. But since getting the K30 I've found I'm a convert to Live View and Focus Peaking, for still life and scenery shots you can't beat it!

I never use the screen for picture taking otherwise, but you don't need to preview anything as it's right there in real time and very visible! Just a attitute adjustment, that's all.

Hope this helps.

Tuggie76
08-30-2013, 06:38 PM   #26
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QuoteOriginally posted by tuggie76 Quote
Hi Rick.

I have a k200d and a K30. I never used the DOF Preview as I tend to set the F stop to reflect what I want and check the LCD after. But since getting the K30 I've found I'm a convert to Live View and Focus Peaking, for still life and scenery shots you can't beat it!

I never use the screen for picture taking otherwise, but you don't need to preview anything as it's right there in real time and very visible! Just a attitute adjustment, that's all.

Hope this helps.

Tuggie76
Hi Tuggie76,

Thanks for the response.

I was just toying around with the focus peaking this afternoon. Look great, but with the type of photography I do most of the time, I doubt I'd be able to use it. I often can't see the rear screen in bright sunlight. Also, I'm not sure I'd ever get used to holding the camera out at arms length. It might work under certain circumstances - if I can remember that the feature is there!

I don't use DOF preview often, but once in a while, I want to double check that I don't have something intruding in the background . This can be a problem with macro photography - you don't see something awkward in the background/foreground until you stop down. With DOF preview, you can sometimes avoid this by simply shifting your position slightly. And no, I'm not using a tripod, and I usually don't have the option of taking a shot and then looking at it on the rear screen and then trying again. My subjects barely hold still long enough for me to focus.

Cheers, Rick
08-31-2013, 06:35 AM   #27
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QuoteOriginally posted by arkav Quote
Hi Tuggie76,

Thanks for the response.

I was just toying around with the focus peaking this afternoon. Look great, but with the type of photography I do most of the time, I doubt I'd be able to use it. I often can't see the rear screen in bright sunlight. Also, I'm not sure I'd ever get used to holding the camera out at arms length. It might work under certain circumstances - if I can remember that the feature is there!

I don't use DOF preview often, but once in a while, I want to double check that I don't have something intruding in the background . This can be a problem with macro photography - you don't see something awkward in the background/foreground until you stop down. With DOF preview, you can sometimes avoid this by simply shifting your position slightly. And no, I'm not using a tripod, and I usually don't have the option of taking a shot and then looking at it on the rear screen and then trying again. My subjects barely hold still long enough for me to focus.

Cheers, Rick
You can use something like this to turn the LCD into a viewfinder:

3 Inch LCD Viewfinder Extender Hood Loupes For Nikon Canon Panasonic Pentax | eBay

I find it very useful when shooting macro hand held. With focus peaking you can clearly see the plane of focus so I first focus approximately then move the camera until the focus plane is where I want it and hit the shutter button at the right moment.
08-31-2013, 10:42 AM   #28
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QuoteOriginally posted by lister6520 Quote
You can use something like this to turn the LCD into a viewfinder:

3 Inch LCD Viewfinder Extender Hood Loupes For Nikon Canon Panasonic Pentax | eBay

I find it very useful when shooting macro hand held. With focus peaking you can clearly see the plane of focus so I first focus approximately then move the camera until the focus plane is where I want it and hit the shutter button at the right moment.
It's an interesting thought. I'm not sure something like that would work for me ( I'd probably knock it off or break it
while hiking ). Also, using live view all the time would burn up the battery pretty fast on the K30.

The bottom line is that my original problem was not so much with the DOF preview as such, but with
taking meter readings with older lenses.

But as I said before, with my K200D, I can set the meter to spot metering, and using DOF preview,
I can pan around the scene and meter various elements.

With the K30, it appears to me that my only option is to push the green button, which rarely yielded
a correct exposure setting on my K200D ( I admit I haven't tried it on the K30, but from what others
have said in this thread, I'm not hopeful ).

As it was, I hadn't been using my old M series lenses much because they were somewhat inconvenient.
Now I'm that much less likely to use them.

Cheers, Rick
08-31-2013, 11:03 AM   #29
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QuoteOriginally posted by arkav Quote
It's an interesting thought. I'm not sure something like that would work for me ( I'd probably knock it off or break it
while hiking ). Also, using live view all the time would burn up the battery pretty fast on the K30.

The bottom line is that my original problem was not so much with the DOF preview as such, but with
taking meter readings with older lenses.

But as I said before, with my K200D, I can set the meter to spot metering, and using DOF preview,
I can pan around the scene and meter various elements.

With the K30, it appears to me that my only option is to push the green button, which rarely yielded
a correct exposure setting on my K200D ( I admit I haven't tried it on the K30, but from what others
have said in this thread, I'm not hopeful ).

As it was, I hadn't been using my old M series lenses much because they were somewhat inconvenient.
Now I'm that much less likely to use them.

Cheers, Rick
The green-button meter readings ought to be way better with K30, although they are still only "spot" or "center-weighted". I use manual K-mount lenses using green-button metering all the time on my K-5 and K-01. Don't really have any issues...
08-31-2013, 11:13 AM   #30
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QuoteOriginally posted by arkav Quote
I realize that this is an old thread, but I'm hoping reviving this may shed some light on my problem.

I recently got the K-30 as a replacement for my aging K200D. At first, I thought that DOF preview was completely
missing, but this thread pointed out that the Raw/FX button can be customized to provide this function.

However, there's one crucial difference between how this works and how the "extra postion" on the on/off switch worked on the K200D.

With an old manual lens, if you used the DOF preview switch on the K200D, the meter stayed active, and you could scan your scene and take meter readings while holding the switch in DOF preview position.

With the K-30, when you push the RAW/FX button to get DOF preview, the meter area in the viewfinder goes completely blank, so all you get is DOF preview - no meter readings. The only way to take a meter reading with an old lens is to push the green button. This doesn't really give you a meter reading, it just stops the lens down and sets your exposure. As other's have noted, this rarely results in a proper setting.

With my K200, I was accustomed to using DOF preview to do meter readings with old lenses. It wasn't perfect, but it worked better than the green button method.

Am I missing something? Is there a way to configure the K-30 so that the meter remains active during DOF preview ( aka Optical Preview ) ?

Cheers, Rick
If you're shooting in RAW, the metering accuracy really doesn't matter much as long as you err on the side of underexposure. The exposure can be set as desired in PP without any harm.
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