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11-19-2012, 02:17 PM   #61
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QuoteOriginally posted by simbon4o Quote
I think that most of you look only on the good sides of the K30 so you don't get the whole picture.
Some of the negative stuff about K30 are bad enough compared to the other competitors so that's why it gets silver. And about video - these days video is so important in low or mid level DSLRs as taking photos.

About image quality - are you 100% sure that the K30 can stand against FF cameras? Because I'm sure that it can't, It can't stand against APS-C cameras with the same sensor so what about FFs... I'm talking about High ISO performance - from 100 to 1600iso - ok it is great(a little noise reduction and other filters in RAW and voalla), but when the ISO is raised up the noise reduction makes the photos worse and there is no turning off. Even the Sony SLTs have better high iso. Dynamic range is lower than other cameras with this sensor... It is not that great camera let's be honest.

About video quality - the worst video. No antialiasing, moire, pixelization, compression is high, software image stabilization, ... A, M, T video modes are not finished because for example you can't change the speed or aperture during video, noisy AF.

Yes is has many good qualities but... let's face it it is not that perfect .
The fact that Pentax has advertising banner in dpreview is enough to say that the silver award is because pentax doesn't pay for gold ... .
Well, I think the points are (a) the primary function of an SLR is still photography, whether or not it can also function as a camcorder. Obviously you are going to review these features along with everything else, but they certainly should not be weighed as heavily as features that make still photography (100 percent penta prism, 2 control wheels) easier. (b) It is not being compared to full frame cameras in this review, it is being comapred to cameras like the Nikon D5200, which do not have significantly better still image quality. I don't really see this raw noise reduction effecting end image quality, dynamic range is not enough different that you could tell the difference in image editing between the K5 and K30/K01.

11-19-2012, 03:21 PM   #62
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QuoteOriginally posted by Rondec Quote
It is not being compared to full frame cameras in this review,
I was talking about most of the comments here, one of them were that it can compete with full frames... .

About noise reduction, compare in the dpreview shots on ISO3200 with the K30, K5, D5100, Nex5N and you will see what I'm talking about. ISO1600 - K30 is great, ISO3200 - heavy noise reduction(or should I say detail reduction). I avoid it by not using ISO more than 1600 and underexposure but it is annoying. D5200 is not tested yet, probably it will perform as D3200.

Dynamic range is reduced a little no more than a stop. Also there is a little color noise reduction in ISO100 raw files when you push it hard in the shadows compared to K5 for example. Actually - not a big deal.

Last edited by simbon4o; 11-19-2012 at 03:27 PM.
11-19-2012, 05:50 PM   #63
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QuoteOriginally posted by simbon4o Quote
I think that most of you look only on the good sides of the K30 so you don't get the whole picture.
Some of the negative stuff about K30 are bad enough compared to the other competitors so that's why it gets silver. And about video - these days video is so important in low or mid level DSLRs as taking photos.
......ooooook - so give me a gold for photos, and bronze for video.

That's all we really want here. It really sucks if the DPReview mods are saying "Don't look at the badges~ read the pros and cons~"
11-19-2012, 06:32 PM   #64
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QuoteOriginally posted by simbon4o Quote
I was talking about most of the comments here, one of them were that it can compete with full frames... .

About noise reduction, compare in the dpreview shots on ISO3200 with the K30, K5, D5100, Nex5N and you will see what I'm talking about. ISO1600 - K30 is great, ISO3200 - heavy noise reduction(or should I say detail reduction). I avoid it by not using ISO more than 1600 and underexposure but it is annoying. D5200 is not tested yet, probably it will perform as D3200.

Dynamic range is reduced a little no more than a stop. Also there is a little color noise reduction in ISO100 raw files when you push it hard in the shadows compared to K5 for example. Actually - not a big deal.
I don't disagree I've played with a few cameras with the 16mp CMOS and it's a very good sensor no question about it.
DR wise maybe Pentax are being a bit harsher on the tonal curve than other makers. (Sony/Nikon) It might turn off some buyers yes you can work around it, but the time has come for Pentax to just offer real raw and no fiddling. It's not an on chip sensor thing either, the other models I have used with this sensor show no obvious signs of any NR processing going on in raw.

On the K-r I found the NR in raw to be counter productive ACR had problems with hot pixels and colour splodges which meant I had to use a filter to remove hot pixels as ACR could not detect them properly.

As for high NR above ISO 1600 I don't see the point..even at ISO 6400 you can get good results (with a good exposure ie not underexposed) there isn't a whole lot of colour/chroma noise anyway so I see the Pentax forced NR raw as pretty pointless..it's just not needed.

11-19-2012, 11:17 PM   #65
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QuoteOriginally posted by JinDesu Quote
......ooooook - so give me a gold for photos, and bronze for video.

That's all we really want here. It really sucks if the DPReview mods are saying "Don't look at the badges~ read the pros and cons~"
Why? Gold will make your photos better come oooon it is not that important.
11-20-2012, 04:27 AM - 1 Like   #66
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QuoteOriginally posted by simbon4o Quote
Why? Gold will make your photos better come oooon it is not that important.
It is not (directly) important for Pentax users, but is is extremely important for Pentax.

I'm betting my bottom dollar that a DPRreview Gold award directly translates into more revenue through the awarded model. That's Most likely why DPReview artificially talked the K-30 down and is not prepared to correct the blatant flaws in their conclusion. Apparently Pentax has not been patronizing them with adverts to a sufficient amount lately. It is a very unsecret secret that review performance depends on advertising budget of the respective company in print magazines and sadly DPReview does not appear to be an exception.

Indirectly, Pentax's revenue also impacts on current Pentax users. The better the company does, the better for its users. I believe that's why many take issue with unfair reviews, as opposed to their pride as Pentaxians being hurt.
11-20-2012, 05:54 AM   #67
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QuoteOriginally posted by simbon4o Quote
Why? Gold will make your photos better come oooon it is not that important.
Yes it will.

Gold will attract more buyers into Pentax. More buyers means more money for Pentax to expand their lenses. More lenses means more choices for me to use for making pictures = better pictures being taken.

But my more serious point is - I'm not affected by the awards. However - I still think that Pentax should be given a fair score.
11-20-2012, 08:02 AM   #68
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I don't see a direct favouritism for C or N. I see DPR pandering to the broadest public they can. They are Amazon in disguise and want sales.

I don't agree with it, and as a Brit wish they grew bigger balls... but I can't blame them. Blame Pentax for their piss-poor marketing.

11-20-2012, 01:41 PM - 1 Like   #69
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QuoteOriginally posted by Unsinkable II Quote
I don't see a direct favouritism for C or N.
Indirect favoritism then? Or do you reckon it is incompetence or laziness on their part?

Lars Rehm has corrected typos and incorrect statements made in the review, based on feedback he received from users. But he doesn't address the lack of mentioning "focus peaking" at all and does not fix the incomplete "Pros" list in the Conclusions despite having received a lot of feedback regarding these points.

If DPRreview thinks that a Canon 1D Mk IV nowadays would only get a silver award because it doesn't have a dedicated video button, that's their perogative, I guess. But failing to correct an incomplete review -- which would take not more than 5min -- cannot be excused, AFAIC.
11-20-2012, 11:41 PM   #70
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I don't think that Gold will attract more buyers. Pentax users are people who wants to be different, they are not buying pentax for it's review awards, they buy it because it is different .
11-21-2012, 02:58 AM   #71
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QuoteOriginally posted by simbon4o Quote
Pentax users are people who wants to be different, they are not buying pentax for it's review awards, they buy it because it is different .
I agree with the first part, but maybe another reason for Pentax users having chosen Pentax is because they figured that the gear is the best choice for what they need (rather than just being different).

Be that as it may, some people simply go for awards, decide by ranking list, etc. These people are not your stereotypical Pentax user, but they are good for the brand nevertheless.
11-21-2012, 05:52 AM   #72
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QuoteOriginally posted by Class A Quote
I agree with the first part, but maybe another reason for Pentax users having chosen Pentax is because they figured that the gear is the best choice for what they need (rather than just being different).
I researched my choices intensively each time I bought. The K100D Super, K20D and K-x met my needs better than anything available at the time. If I were shopping in its class now, the K-30 is again the best body available for my needs. I'm an avid amateur photographer, video is another hobby entirely, one in which I have no interest.
11-23-2012, 09:02 AM   #73
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QuoteOriginally posted by Mr Spocko Quote
I don't disagree I've played with a few cameras with the 16mp CMOS and it's a very good sensor no question about it.
DR wise maybe Pentax are being a bit harsher on the tonal curve than other makers. (Sony/Nikon) It might turn off some buyers yes you can work around it, but the time has come for Pentax to just offer real raw and no fiddling. It's not an on chip sensor thing either, the other models I have used with this sensor show no obvious signs of any NR processing going on in raw.

On the K-r I found the NR in raw to be counter productive ACR had problems with hot pixels and colour splodges which meant I had to use a filter to remove hot pixels as ACR could not detect them properly.

As for high NR above ISO 1600 I don't see the point..even at ISO 6400 you can get good results (with a good exposure ie not underexposed) there isn't a whole lot of colour/chroma noise anyway so I see the Pentax forced NR raw as pretty pointless..it's just not needed.
all camera's of all manufacturors have NR in RAW, they do not advertise with it (as it is suposed to be "unprocessed" data), but they all do.
11-26-2012, 05:01 PM   #74
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I am not sure how much the "gold" influences people - I would be you could find someone who did not buy a K-30 because it did not have a "gold". As for DPR, I'm not sure what exactly causes them to award a gold - maybe innovation. They seem to like something "new". Anyway, the K-30 has great reviews here and elsewhere, so it looks like a great piece of kit.
11-30-2012, 04:25 AM   #75
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QuoteOriginally posted by Macario Quote
all camera's of all manufacturors have NR in RAW, they do not advertise with it (as it is suposed to be "unprocessed" data), but they all do.
I'm not seeing this myself on other makers.
There is obvious NR on the Pentax NR files, I can't see this on other raw files.
Anyway it's a moot point looking at the lens prices in the USA I'd say Pentax are in serious trouble
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