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12-27-2012, 05:05 PM - 1 Like   #16
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QuoteOriginally posted by zorza Quote
HOW!! 2 great shots.. Great lightning and great sharpness all across the shots.. These are k-30 with flash and what lens?
I know that my 55da* 1.4 is a great lens.. But I was thinking of buying the d600 with the lot lens (24-85) and then add a 50mm 1.8lens. That would give me good results also.. I was trying to get away from buying another flash, as I already have a metz 50 with Panasonic mount, and I was trying not to buy another one.. I know that the in camera flash will not make that big diference of the k-30 or the d600. It will always be a camera flash. My point would be overal better experience and better image quality, from the diference on the sensor size, as well as better high iso use, wich is always a good thing.

Zorza
Thanks.
These were with the K30+FA77ltd. Flash thru 1 softbox and the bkgnd was a flash with grid.

Personal experience, FF is easier to create shots for a certain shallow DOF type look that still has some wide FOV.
The overall impression it achieves is subject isolation with an environmental context.
Here is an example :

5D+Pentax A50/1.7

Shot at between f2 or f2.8

5D+S.Tak 85/1.9

probably f2 or 2.5


However, I think this look is also 'near enough' on APS-C
K30+Revuenon 55/1.2





I often wonder how much I really need in terms of megapix. (ie. 24mp vs 36mp)
16mp is sure nice to work with so far.
Ability to crop and retain a nice file size; Ability to print big; fast processing speed; details.

In your case, I suspect D600+kit+50/1.8 will do better overall IF you are willing to shoulder the bigger/heavier system.
Cost wise, I think the f1.8/f2.8 primes are not expensive at all (and not too big either, though a Pentax equivalent lens is smaller)
Do note that I make this comment partly because I don't want a happy family man/father to perhaps miss out on some of the FF advantages.
If you had more Pentax gear like me, I certainly wound not recommend a switch as to me the difference is not worth it.

12-30-2012, 03:53 PM   #17
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Not yeat been able to decide what to do.. Just did +500 pictures these past 3 days due to several familly parties.. The K-30 did quite well, but there is something it still bothers me with: the focusing in low light.. It hunts, hunts, and then stops, without the focus reached.. This with both lens, the 55da* 1.4 and the 18-135wr.

I am looking also at the canon 6d, but the lack of pop up flash is a big no for me. I know the lightning of the pop up flash is never very good, but it is a lot better than nothing when it is really dark.
I know the 6d can use very high iso (they say 25600!!!), but will it really be like that? I guess the problem is taht I have the money to jump to that ship.. If I didn't, no problem would exist..
Another thing is the lens on the FF.. Buying thr D600 from nikon, I get the 24-85 lens. A good but kind of shor lens, more even when compared with the 18-135 (28-200 in ff) of the pentax.. The canon lens, the 24-105 f4 lens seems a very good lens, and a lot of professional guys use it, so it must be tack sharp!

Do you think the canon or the nikon focus on low light should be better then the k-30?
If you are answering, what focusing do you think works best of the k-30? I usually use 5point or 1point central, as I believe the central points are usually better.

Thanks
Zorza
12-30-2012, 04:19 PM   #18
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QuoteOriginally posted by zorza Quote
Do you think the canon or the nikon focus on low light should be better then the k-30?
If you are answering, what focusing do you think works best of the k-30? I usually use 5point or 1point central, as I believe the central points are usually better.
How low are we talking? If the K-30 can't do it with the auto focus assist beam on, then it must be very dark. My K-5 with the 18-55 and the assist beam on has no problem in conditions I consider low light.
12-30-2012, 05:04 PM   #19
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pinholecam - Wonderful photos

I wonder that too. My K200d focused on these in very low light. I think the K5II might work well for you if focus is your concern.

Please show samples as I too am considering a new camera.

1/25th F2.8 ISO 1600 pushed 1/2 a stop.


1/10th F2.8 at 1600 pushed 1 stop



Last edited by john5100; 12-30-2012 at 05:22 PM.
12-30-2012, 05:33 PM   #20
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I don't have out of focus pictures.. The problem is the time it takes to focus. Sometimes, the green light comes on 2 or 3 times, then I have to press the shuttewr button again to activate it in order to get the focus to pick up on the subjects. Mainly people! Sometimes, it takes a litle switch to the zoom to get it to get real focus..
So, yes, the little green light focusing helper is on!!

Zorza
12-30-2012, 11:22 PM   #21
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My k-30 is on the way and I am waiting to see what could be the problem with this situation.

I have have a k-m and focusing in low light is a pain. But I suspect my experience with the k-30 is going to be better.

Maybe some sample pictures will help. Have you tried live view? Apparently CDAF is better at focusing than PDAF in low light.
12-31-2012, 02:15 AM   #22
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QuoteOriginally posted by zorza Quote
Not yeat been able to decide what to do.. Just did +500 pictures these past 3 days due to several familly parties.. The K-30 did quite well, but there is something it still bothers me with: the focusing in low light.. It hunts, hunts, and then stops, without the focus reached.. This with both lens, the 55da* 1.4 and the 18-135wr.

I am looking also at the canon 6d, but the lack of pop up flash is a big no for me. I know the lightning of the pop up flash is never very good, but it is a lot better than nothing when it is really dark.
I know the 6d can use very high iso (they say 25600!!!), but will it really be like that? I guess the problem is taht I have the money to jump to that ship.. If I didn't, no problem would exist..
Another thing is the lens on the FF.. Buying thr D600 from nikon, I get the 24-85 lens. A good but kind of shor lens, more even when compared with the 18-135 (28-200 in ff) of the pentax.. The canon lens, the 24-105 f4 lens seems a very good lens, and a lot of professional guys use it, so it must be tack sharp!

Do you think the canon or the nikon focus on low light should be better then the k-30?
If you are answering, what focusing do you think works best of the k-30? I usually use 5point or 1point central, as I believe the central points are usually better.

Thanks
Zorza
Coming from a 5D user (also handled a 60D); Canon interface is really poor and features (and how they work or are accessed) is not as well thought out as Pentax. So 6D isn't a camera I'd recommend w/o asking you to first try it out properly (by that I mean use a while to take real pictures; not just fiddle with it in a camera store)
IIRC, the K5 and variants was measured by DXO to better any current Canon sensor, so that throws out the better ISO on a 6D equation.

The Canon 24-105L is good and a workhorse of a lens, but to me its big (by Pentax standards) and its still f4 in light gathering.

The K5II/s is the one to look at if you want good AF in low light.
I've tried it a couple of times during Pentax monthly outings here.
Certainly fast and decisive against K5 and K30.



QuoteOriginally posted by john5100 Quote
pinholecam - Wonderful photos

I wonder that too. My K200d focused on these in very low light. I think the K5II might work well for you if focus is your concern.

Please show samples as I too am considering a new camera.

1/25th F2.8 ISO 1600 pushed 1/2 a stop.


1/10th F2.8 at 1600 pushed 1 stop

AF improved a lot since K7 (so by extension K200)
K5 was already decisive and fast.
In low light it was much more decisive than K7.
But the K5IIs that I've tried a few times is definitely a step ahead of the K5 in low light AF.



QuoteOriginally posted by Culture Quote
My k-30 is on the way and I am waiting to see what could be the problem with this situation.

I have have a k-m and focusing in low light is a pain. But I suspect my experience with the k-30 is going to be better.

Maybe some sample pictures will help. Have you tried live view? Apparently CDAF is better at focusing than PDAF in low light.
Don't worry, its certainly much better than Km.
AF in poor light has been more decisive since K5, Kr.
The K30 adds to this with better accuracy.
The other advantage of K30 is its fast CDAF.
Faster than other Pentax DSLRs before it and also faster than the likes of a 60D (which is in fact slower than K5 in this)
It works pretty well too in low light, so the user can switch to this if he is suspicious of CDAF accuracy in the condition that he's in.
12-31-2012, 02:40 AM   #23
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Before you ditch the K-30, 2 things to try.........

AF-C may work better for you than AF-S in its default state in low light with subjects moving a bit.........

and.........it may be worth practising in low light with AF-S setting set to release priority rather than the default focus priority. This may seem counter intuitive, but the thing is you can use the camera as normal, waiting for a lock before pressing the shutter fully, but also you can decide for yourself if the camera is being a bit too fussy and press the shutter anyway. With practice you can tell that the camera has made its main focus adjustment and pressing the shutter will get you a decent shot. I think this is the main difference between similar price C&N and Pentax, they know when to stop trying for perfection for a better user experience, Pentaxes are set up to keep trying until focus is as perfect as its ever going to be even if it takes forever LOL or can't be achieved. The assist light ought to be user adjustable for the EV level it comes on at as well, I can't understand why no one puts this in their cameras.

12-31-2012, 01:43 PM   #24
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Another thing to consider is total system cost.

IMO an APS-c camera with excellent lenses will be superior to a FF camera with average lens.
12-31-2012, 03:56 PM   #25
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QuoteOriginally posted by zorza Quote
I don't have out of focus pictures.. The problem is the time it takes to focus. Sometimes, the green light comes on 2 or 3 times, then I have to press the shuttewr button again to activate it in order to get the focus to pick up on the subjects. Mainly people! Sometimes, it takes a litle switch to the zoom to get it to get real focus..
So, yes, the little green light focusing helper is on!!

Zorza
I must say I'm quite surprised by this. I have a K-30 with 18-135 WR and for me it locks focus very fast in such low light conditions that I wonder why I'm even taking a picture.
12-31-2012, 06:57 PM   #26
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QuoteOriginally posted by IchabodCrane Quote
I must say I'm quite surprised by this. I have a K-30 with 18-135 WR and for me it locks focus very fast in such low light conditions that I wonder why I'm even taking a picture.
Because you can....
12-31-2012, 07:42 PM   #27
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QuoteOriginally posted by IchabodCrane Quote
I must say I'm quite surprised by this. I have a K-30 with 18-135 WR and for me it locks focus very fast in such low light conditions that I wonder why I'm even taking a picture.
Can there be something wrong with the focusing on my camera? Is there somehow to check it? I say camera, because I have 2 lens and the behaviour is the same with both the 18-135 and the 50 da* f1.4


Zorza
12-31-2012, 08:11 PM   #28
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Another thing you have to remember is you're not going to focus on something low contrast easily, the auto focus needs contrast to work. Focusing on something dark, against a dark background in low light is just not going to happen.
01-01-2013, 11:06 AM   #29
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QuoteOriginally posted by elliott Quote
Another thing you have to remember is you're not going to focus on something low contrast easily, the auto focus needs contrast to work. Focusing on something dark, against a dark background in low light is just not going to happen.
+1 Focusing in low light does require a little bit of thought. If you try to focus on a plain white wall in any kind of light you will not get a focus lock. The AF system uses contrast to lock on, so it needs something to lock on to. But it detects the contrast change only at the point of the AF sensor. Some sensors are cross type which means they can detect a change both vertically and horizontally. The center point sensor is usually cross type. When in dark situations try looking for small contrast changes, edges of objects or slight changes in luminosity. Focus on those spots and you will usually get a good AF lock, try to focus on the middle of a brown blob with no contrast and all you will get is frustration. I think many photographers do this sub-consciously after long experience.
01-01-2013, 11:53 AM   #30
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QuoteOriginally posted by jatrax Quote
I think many photographers do this sub-consciously after long experience.
Especially the ones who are used to manual focus, our eyes don't like low contrast very much either.
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