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04-07-2013, 07:18 AM   #16
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Lens prices are a funny thing. Yes, Canon and Nikon have cheaper lenses than Pentax, but they also have more expensive lenses too. Try to buy a 15mm prime in Canon or Nikon. Oops, there goes $1500-$2000 instead of $600 for the 15 Limited. And for your $2k, you don't get the lovely limited build. The 15 limited is just sexy, really nice to own. How many Nikon lenses are made of metal? How many can go out in the rain? How many pancake lenses to Nikon and Canon make? One, total. What does Nikon make that renders like a 43 or a 77 limited? Nothing. Who else makes a lens that can keep up with the 31? No one. The Canon L 35mm is $1500, and the size of a planet. 580g and 72mm filter ring, seriously? (vs. 340g/58mm). It would be one thing to pay that much and lug that thing around if it was better, but I don't think it is.

There is no perfect camera. Decide what is most important and go from there. I really thought long and hard before committing to a brand, and Pentax is home for me. I did an extensive amount of research, and modeled different complete kits of cameras in Nikon, Canon and Pentax. For me, for the kit I want, for a given level of IQ, the Pentax system ended up comparably priced or cheaper overall and lighter in the bag. I've taken 0 videos with my DSLR, so I don't care about that. It seems to be Pentax's biggest weakness.

Maybe the K-30/K01 is the best bet!

04-07-2013, 07:43 AM   #17
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in terms of sharpness and fine detail, the K-30 wins I think. It seems maybe k30 might be applying some sort of sharpness even to raw files, or the k30 sensor is actually better than the k5ii. I have compared the images on imaging resource from the k30 to the k5ii and even the k5ii-s, and the k30 images always come out sharper and cleaner. The only advantage of the k5ii and k5iis is that they produce slightly less noise at really high iso levels above iso 3200. But below iso 3200, the k30 wins. Most people dont use above 3200 anyway, unless desperate.

Here is the comparison at iso 1600. K5ii on the left.

04-20-2013, 11:46 AM   #18
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QuoteOriginally posted by mpmetro Quote
in terms of sharpness and fine detail, the K-30 wins I think. It seems maybe k30 might be applying some sort of sharpness even to raw files, or the k30 sensor is actually better than the k5ii. I have compared the images on imaging resource from the k30 to the k5ii and even the k5ii-s, and the k30 images always come out sharper and cleaner. The only advantage of the k5ii and k5iis is that they produce slightly less noise at really high iso levels above iso 3200. But below iso 3200, the k30 wins. Most people dont use above 3200 anyway, unless desperate.

Here is the comparison at iso 1600. K5ii on the left.
I have noted the same thing about the image sharpness of a K01 and K30 vs the K5. The K5 is a bit softer, but much cleaner with bolder contrast IMHO. I noted on the Imaging-resource.com test charts that the K30 suffers a bit of blue fringing around black/white transitions or high contrast transitions........check out the attached test charts from Imaging resource. The first is a K5, the 2nd is a K01, and the 3rd is a K30. Note the K01 is cleanest. I have both a K01 and K5...the K01 is sharper, but it gets more sporadic RGB color dots that look like hot pixels at 100% magnification and subtly shows in a 10x15. However, again, the JPEG of the K5 is cleaner, but slightly softer though more realistic looking to me (for landscape). I sharpen where I need to which is easy, but cleaning an image is very difficult, so I prefer the K5 over other cams. Just my opinion, but the K5 One is the best camera I have used, minus its sluggish live view shot to shot times IF shooting in RAW+ which takes 5-6 seconds for the LCD to clear for the next shot AND it underexposes in Live view given the same settings.

I have a couple of questions for anyone owning both the K5 and K30.....

1- My question to any k30 owner is this (since I am shopping for a K30)....does the K30 show more color fringing and "spurious color noise" or artifacts as I have described?
2- Another question...My K01 shoots in live view RAW+JPEG large files with a BLAZING shot to shot time which I just love (shot to shot in this case meaning the time from when I snap the shutter to the time I can compose a second shot - I can care less about focusing time as that just depends VASTLY on shooting conditions and subjects) The K01 takes a shot and is ready for another in just 1.5 seconds vs my K5 at 6 seconds when shooting Live view and it is VERY irritating. SO, just how fast is the K30?

Here are the test charts from Imaging-Resource....I highly prefer the K01/K5, and K30 last if this test chart reflects real world images:

Thank you...
Attached Images
View Picture EXIF
PENTAX K-5  Photo 
View Picture EXIF
PENTAX K-01  Photo 
View Picture EXIF
PENTAX K-30  Photo 
04-20-2013, 12:21 PM   #19
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I make the K-30 live view performance something like 2 secs between shots. There's a lot of mirror flipping going on and it's that that takes the time, not the AF which is fairly nippy, about half a second I'd guess. I haven't used a K-01 but the lack of mirror activity must be quite relaxing.

I don't take photos of rez charts so can't really say about blue fringes in that circumstance. I've not noticed any in real life. I use RAW all the time and if there's one thing needed with the K-30 is devotion to RAW. There's nothing really wrong per se with jpgs OOC compared with other cameras, but the RAWs can give so much more. What I have noticed with the K=30 is that lens quality has a huge effect on fine detail - obvious stuff really but ordinary lenses do seem to blend fine details to nothing on the K-30. I was gobsmacked at the landscape detail my old K55/1.8 can produce - a lot more than my 35/2.4 and Sigma 17-70 which are both perfectly capable lenses that can churn out lovely detailed prints. The camera doesn't appear to be a limiting factor basically.

04-20-2013, 01:04 PM   #20
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QuoteOriginally posted by SteveB Quote
I make the K-30 live view performance something like 2 secs between shots. There's a lot of mirror flipping going on and it's that that takes the time, not the AF which is fairly nippy, about half a second I'd guess. I haven't used a K-01 but the lack of mirror activity must be quite relaxing.

I don't take photos of rez charts so can't really say about blue fringes in that circumstance. I've not noticed any in real life. I use RAW all the time and if there's one thing needed with the K-30 is devotion to RAW. There's nothing really wrong per se with jpgs OOC compared with other cameras, but the RAWs can give so much more. What I have noticed with the K=30 is that lens quality has a huge effect on fine detail - obvious stuff really but ordinary lenses do seem to blend fine details to nothing on the K-30. I was gobsmacked at the landscape detail my old K55/1.8 can produce - a lot more than my 35/2.4 and Sigma 17-70 which are both perfectly capable lenses that can churn out lovely detailed prints. The camera doesn't appear to be a limiting factor basically.
Thanks for the report on the K30 Live View shot to shot times. So 2 seconds shot to shot then from time of capture of the first frame and ready for the second shooting RAW+ ?!?!? If that is true, that is a heck of a lot better than a K5 which many consider to be sluggish at 5-6 seconds before the Live View screen is clear for the next recomposition.

On the K01, live view shooting is ONE of the VERY few things likeable about that cam... it is quite 'relaxed' in its performance in that there is only clicking at the time of focus that lasts maybe .5 seconds. It is a very snappy and smooth camera, but its Auto focus accuracy outside 5 feet from a subject is HORRIBLE. In just one instance, I took 20 shots with a DA1645 at f5 stops and 1/320 shutter speeds 5 feet from my wife. DOF was deep enough to get the eyes to the ears clear. HOWEVER, all but one shot was OOF. This happens regularly with the K01...it re-adjusts focus every shot and gives a different center of focus almost every time, even being on a tripod...VERY irritating. Ephoto did a review and had the exact same issue, finding that the multi zone AF is useless, only spot focus gave okay results, and for me, not even then.

I recommend to anyone considering buying a K01 close out camera to only get it for MANUAL FOCUSING in low light or indoor use only. Viewing the LCD outdoors is next to impossible (even if you shade the LCD Panel) and it is completely unreliable for Auto focus (unless stopped down to a necessary DOF that is quite deep and a pin point focus point is not critical). For me, I don't like "HAVING TO" stop down and certainly do not like guessing at my focus point...I like to open up the aperture when I can and rarely like a 2 dimensional shot that is sharp from border to border...SO the K01 is a no go for me. I got it to use with my 50mm-M Primes and other f2.8 lenses, but it is still to difficult to use the K01 unless indoors or in dark shade.

***Back to the main topic though, image quality. I understand what you say about shooting charts...I reference them though to know what may happen in the field. I like architectural/landscape photography combined and light posts and edges of buildings or window frames can REALLY show aberrations. SO, I look at charts like that above and get spooked about the K30. I have never seen such fringing and PF/CA's are my worst enemy. I will take image softness over CA's any day of the week. Clicking the sharpness button takes 1 second,,,,,,,cleaning CA's and PF can be very time consuming and fixing them DESTROYS images.

Oh, and about lens quality, a lens really determines image quality for any camera....I did not follow you on the comments about being 'gobsmacked' with the lenses though. How did you mean all that?
04-20-2013, 01:41 PM   #21
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QuoteOriginally posted by JF Jayhawk Quote
Thanks for the report on the K30 Live View shot to shot times. So 2 seconds shot to shot then from time of capture of the first frame and ready for the second shooting RAW+ ?!?!? If that is true, that is a heck of a lot better than a K5 which many consider to be sluggish at 5-6 seconds before the Live View screen is clear for the next recomposition.

On the K01, live view shooting is ONE of the VERY few things likeable about that cam... it is quite 'relaxed' in its performance in that there is only clicking at the time of focus that lasts maybe .5 seconds. It is a very snappy and smooth camera, but its Auto focus accuracy outside 5 feet from a subject is HORRIBLE. In just one instance, I took 20 shots with a DA1645 at f5 stops and 1/320 shutter speeds 5 feet from my wife. DOF was deep enough to get the eyes to the ears clear. HOWEVER, all but one shot was OOF. This happens regularly with the K01...it re-adjusts focus every shot and gives a different center of focus almost every time, even being on a tripod...VERY irritating. Ephoto did a review and had the exact same issue, finding that the multi zone AF is useless, only spot focus gave okay results, and for me, not even then.

I recommend to anyone considering buying a K01 close out camera to only get it for MANUAL FOCUSING in low light or indoor use only. Viewing the LCD outdoors is next to impossible (even if you shade the LCD Panel) and it is completely unreliable for Auto focus (unless stopped down to a necessary DOF that is quite deep and a pin point focus point is not critical). For me, I don't like "HAVING TO" stop down and certainly do not like guessing at my focus point...I like to open up the aperture when I can and rarely like a 2 dimensional shot that is sharp from border to border...SO the K01 is a no go for me. I got it to use with my 50mm-M Primes and other f2.8 lenses, but it is still to difficult to use the K01 unless indoors or in dark shade.

***Back to the main topic though, image quality. I understand what you say about shooting charts...I reference them though to know what may happen in the field. I like architectural/landscape photography combined and light posts and edges of buildings or window frames can REALLY show aberrations. SO, I look at charts like that above and get spooked about the K30. I have never seen such fringing and PF/CA's are my worst enemy. I will take image softness over CA's any day of the week. Clicking the sharpness button takes 1 second,,,,,,,cleaning CA's and PF can be very time consuming and fixing them DESTROYS images.

Oh, and about lens quality, a lens really determines image quality for any camera....I did not follow you on the comments about being 'gobsmacked' with the lenses though. How did you mean all that?
If I take single RAW shots as frequently as the camera is ready to then I can take a shot every 2secs or just over. It's accurate focus, single point only - I never use auto multi point as that never works right on any camera I've handled, how can it know what I want in focus?

By 'gobsmacked' I mean I was amazed at the increase in resolution - like I could see tree leaves at twice the distance with the K55/1.8 at f2.8 compared to say my Sigma 17-70 at 55mm f5.6/f8 which is as sharp as that lens comes and it's a good copy that's miles better than the kit lens. This did not happen on a 6MP K100D.

The only downside I've noticed with the K-30 image quality is if I really try to make the pips squeak using Focus Magic to get razor sharp images then I can begin to detect every pixel as a separate entity if you see what I mean, a definite grid pattern begins to emerge at 100% viewing, but in all real world practicality I just don't need FM as the images are sharp enough anyway.
04-20-2013, 02:10 PM   #22
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QuoteOriginally posted by SteveB Quote
If I take single RAW shots as frequently as the camera is ready to then I can take a shot every 2secs or just over. It's accurate focus, single point only - I never use auto multi point as that never works right on any camera I've handled, how can it know what I want in focus?

By 'gobsmacked' I mean I was amazed at the increase in resolution - like I could see tree leaves at twice the distance with the K55/1.8 at f2.8 compared to say my Sigma 17-70 at 55mm f5.6/f8 which is as sharp as that lens comes and it's a good copy that's miles better than the kit lens. This did not happen on a 6MP K100D.

The only downside I've noticed with the K-30 image quality is if I really try to make the pips squeak using Focus Magic to get razor sharp images then I can begin to detect every pixel as a separate entity if you see what I mean, a definite grid pattern begins to emerge at 100% viewing, but in all real world practicality I just don't need FM as the images are sharp enough anyway.

Oh ya, a good prime lens on this 16MP sensor in the K5/K01/K30 series cameras is a mind blowing experience....images are second to nobody!!!

Oh, and try this link....

Durham Museum of Life and Science Shoot - July 15 - 12 - PENTAX K-30 - smc PENTAX-DA 18-135mm F3.5-5.6 ED AL[IF] DC WR_ | Flickr - Photo Sharing!

I just found this "real world" picture using a K30 camera. Talk about clean image....note this is a black and white butterfly in good natural light and the edges have NO fringing at all. Very natural resolve to the colors and sharpness of this picture.

I think I shall try a K30....seems to be a great mix and match of the K01 and K5 benefactors. I really need snappy Live View for some shooting I want to do, the K5 just does not have it. But I also need the 100% oVF coverage, or in the case of the K01, I need an OVF all together.

I see why the K30 is best in class and sky rocketing in sales....what a camera (minus the stupid battery situation).
04-22-2013, 04:38 AM   #23
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QuoteOriginally posted by SteveB Quote
I make the K-30 live view performance something like 2 secs between shots. There's a lot of mirror flipping going on and it's that that takes the time, not the AF which is fairly nippy, about half a second I'd guess. I haven't used a K-01 but the lack of mirror activity must be quite relaxing.

I don't take photos of rez charts so can't really say about blue fringes in that circumstance. I've not noticed any in real life. I use RAW all the time and if there's one thing needed with the K-30 is devotion to RAW. There's nothing really wrong per se with jpgs OOC compared with other cameras, but the RAWs can give so much more. What I have noticed with the K=30 is that lens quality has a huge effect on fine detail - obvious stuff really but ordinary lenses do seem to blend fine details to nothing on the K-30. I was gobsmacked at the landscape detail my old K55/1.8 can produce - a lot more than my 35/2.4 and Sigma 17-70 which are both perfectly capable lenses that can churn out lovely detailed prints. The camera doesn't appear to be a limiting factor basically.
I disagree twice.

First, it is true that DNG (RAW) gives you the edge under difficuld light, but in well lit situations there is very little need for RAW with K-30 at all. I shoot a lot of fast action soccer lately and started out with RAW+ setting. I found out that even in bright sun DR of OOC JPEGs is so enormous, that I didn't need my DNG backup files anymore.

Second, do yourself a favor and switch the AF for LV from phase-detect to contrast detect. You will get rid of mirror-flapping and gain more accuracy and sheer speed. Further, if you enable focus-peaking you got the fastest and most precise control for your MF lens gear (if you own any).

04-22-2013, 05:03 AM   #24
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QuoteOriginally posted by JF Jayhawk Quote
(...)

I see why the K30 is best in class and sky rocketing in sales....what a camera (minus the stupid battery situation).
I see the multiple battery solution as a benefit: I cycle Eneloops and the original Li-Ion without any hassle. Consider that you also have the option for (non-rechargeable) AA-Lithiums which will give you absolutely hassle free 3K+ shots... on a vacation trip maybe..
04-22-2013, 06:23 AM   #25
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QuoteOriginally posted by dragra Quote
I see the multiple battery solution as a benefit: I cycle Eneloops and the original Li-Ion without any hassle. Consider that you also have the option for (non-rechargeable) AA-Lithiums which will give you absolutely hassle free 3K+ shots... on a vacation trip maybe..

Of course the AA batteries are of a major benefit in the K30 camera, the OEM battery has NO battery life at all, especially for what I do. A simple comparison: 410 shot battery in the K30, 1000 shot battery for the K5, or AA's at 1000 shots but require extra space and time...I will take the D-LI90 from the K5 every time just as 90% of every one else on this subject. The battery situation is the number one criticism for the K30 on every forum and review site I have read.

I used to have a KR, I chose to use ENELOOPS as well, loved them. BUT, it takes A LOT of space in the bag when you are on a hike or all day shoot, takes more time to reload batteries, need good weather conditions for it takes longer to swap batteries and gear will get wet/dusty while taking the time to reloading each individual AA battery onto the holder, etc etc etc.

I USED TO advocate AA batteries til I started shooting for long periods of time outdoors and found the space and time for changing batteries STRONGLY advocates using the K5 D-LI90 battery.

And the biggest factor.... the AA batteries overheat/dissipate heat MUCH worse than the D-LI90 battery. Can even cause failures in high temperatures...I know, I have shot in 90-110 degree temps the past 2 years here summers of the south central U.S. (more like the Majove or Sahara the past 2 years in the summer!!! 115 degree temps for a week last summer) Nimh cannot handle that type of environment. And I pass on any type of "throw it in the trash" batteries like lithium....not good for the wallet or environment. Its really a waste.

Last edited by JF Jayhawk; 04-22-2013 at 06:37 AM.
04-22-2013, 06:40 AM   #26
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QuoteOriginally posted by dragra Quote
I disagree twice.

First, it is true that DNG (RAW) gives you the edge under difficuld light, but in well lit situations there is very little need for RAW with K-30 at all. I shoot a lot of fast action soccer lately and started out with RAW+ setting. I found out that even in bright sun DR of OOC JPEGs is so enormous, that I didn't need my DNG backup files anymore.

Second, do yourself a favor and switch the AF for LV from phase-detect to contrast detect. You will get rid of mirror-flapping and gain more accuracy and sheer speed. Further, if you enable focus-peaking you got the fastest and most precise control for your MF lens gear (if you own any).
IF that works for you, then it does. But it is common practice, particularly at the professional level, to shoot RAW. RAW saves a lot of blown images and gives total flexibility in editing images later down the road you otherwise thought you did not need to edit. The DSLR cameras are supplied with RAW for a reason, most use it for that reason.

YES, use contrast detect in Live View...no doubts on that one. But the faster method for shooting sports is not in live view...should be on OVF which is phase detect for that.

I found, and so have other review websites, that Pentax focus peaking is not all that accurate, and mostly, it only helps in very limited situations. I no longer use focus peaking....the Point of Focus is off much of the time and the DOF WAY too deep most of the time to really know what focus peaking is pointing out to be focused on....half the screen will display white outline.

I find my eye and that awesome 921K dot screen to be far more accurate. Rarely is focus peaking an advantage for anyone using it in MOST situations, not all. It is a VERY crafty tool when it can be used though. I certainly hope it becomes a standard on cameras.
04-22-2013, 06:45 AM   #27
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I don't know what your expectation from a 7.8Wh original battery was, but the performance is somewhere near the K-r. For what I do lately (action-sports, soccer) the original battery has more life than I expected. For a match I shoot about 300 frames on top-speed drive mode and continuous focusing to RAW+ files. The original Li-Ion battery is not much impressed with all this and shows me one minus green mark. With Eneloops I get even slightly better performance than the original Li-Ion.

You seem to misread or didn't see a note in my previous post: the solution for your frustration is called AA-Lithium batteries. These are non-rechargeables, a set costs about 10€ and they are good for 3000+ shots. My friend uses them permanent on K-x, this is best for casual shooters, because you don't need to worry about battery status for a while. Also good for power hungry appplication or when you don't want to open the camera in bad environments.
04-22-2013, 06:58 AM   #28
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QuoteOriginally posted by JF Jayhawk Quote
Of course the AA batteries are of a major benefit in the K30 camera, the OEM battery has NO battery life at all, especially for what I do. A simple comparison: 410 shot battery in the K30, 1000 shot battery for the K5, or AA's at 1000 shots but require extra space and time...I will take the D-LI90 from the K5 every time just as 90% of every one else on this subject. The battery situation is the number one criticism for the K30 on every forum and review site I have read.

I used to have a KR, I chose to use ENELOOPS as well, loved them. BUT, it takes A LOT of space in the bag when you are on a hike or all day shoot, takes more time to reload batteries, need good weather conditions for it takes longer to swap batteries and gear will get wet/dusty while taking the time to reloading each individual AA battery onto the holder, etc etc etc.

I USED TO advocate AA batteries til I started shooting for long periods of time outdoors and found the space and time for changing batteries STRONGLY advocates using the K5 D-LI90 battery.

And the biggest factor.... the AA batteries overheat/dissipate heat MUCH worse than the D-LI90 battery. Can even cause failures in high temperatures...I know, I have shot in 90-110 degree temps the past 2 years here summers of the south central U.S. (more like the Majove or Sahara the past 2 years in the summer!!! 115 degree temps for a week last summer) Nimh cannot handle that type of environment. And I pass on any type of "throw it in the trash" batteries like lithium....not good for the wallet or environment. Its really a waste.
Your the first person I've come across in a post to say they are looking to shoot 1000 images in a day when it's 100 F outside. I would give out long before the battery in a K-30 would!

Your complaints about time to change each AA battery can be addressed by buying a second AA holder for about $5 from China. That can be changed out as fast as the dedicated Li-ion battery.
04-22-2013, 07:10 AM   #29
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QuoteOriginally posted by IchabodCrane Quote
Your the first person I've come across in a post to say they are looking to shoot 1000 images in a day when it's 100 F outside. I would give out long before the battery in a K-30 would!

Your complaints about time to change each AA battery can be addressed by buying a second AA holder for about $5 from China. That can be changed out as fast as the dedicated Li-ion battery.
I UNDERSTAND!!!! LOL.... There are days where I thought I would pass out before my K5 would!!!!

On the AA battery holder, it IS a good concept, but not if the OEM only lasts 410 shots. And changing batteries after there is a quick drain for some reason (which happens) and you are not in a situation where changing 4 batteries instead of one is feasible, then loading those 4 batteries in its holder and then into the cam, then storing the individual other 4 batteries in the appropriate holder to NOT mix up old AA with new (which one drained battery in mixup is a disaster).....come on...time it!!! It takes 5 times as long at least to change AA batteries, and when you are not in the situation for it, it is a hassle.

I agree, those situations are FAR limited and it is more the shooters fault (my fault) if I did not note my battery situation before hand...BUT, those 2 bar down to 1 bar and nothing in the battery can happen VERY fast if you have been reviewing pics a lot, OR using Live view/contrast detect to focus, which I have so often done. So quick battery drains happen and 2 minutes to change a battery instead of 20-30 seconds can be critical.

I know it does not seem like long to load those AA batteries, but time it...you will see the difference in those rare moments. AND YES, yesterday, I was out for 6 hours and completely drained 2 K5 batteries and started on a 3rd. If you are intense about snapping repeatedly, the D-LI90 really is the only option for a safety net.

You are more than welcome to call me lazy though!!! LOL !!!
04-22-2013, 07:14 AM   #30
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By the way........isn't this all a MASSIVE high jacking from the original posted topic???????

I would be very interested to hear comparisons of the K5 mark I vs K30 images and use of the original PDCU vs the new Silky pix to manage photo editing from those cameras. Especially editing CA's.

Also, new Silky Pix does not have the Dodge feature or Shadow Correction.

As much as that seems an off topic, it really is a part of image quality from those cams for the original PDCU is like having the K5 on your PC....I loved that about it. IF I forgot to turn on my shadow correction, I can go to RAW in PDCU and turn it on. OR I would use Dodge for lifting shadows in Portraits which (for me) worked better than lifting gamma or messing with contrast which has a different effect.

I really want a K30, but after having a K01 and using its firmware (which is the same as the K30) and using the new Silky Pix, I find it hard to get a K30 or K5 Mark II for that matter for the new Silky Pix seems more limited, though much smoother than the original PDCU in operation.

Last edited by JF Jayhawk; 04-22-2013 at 07:22 AM.
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