Hey K-30, Why so blue?

twitch · 05-17-2013, 04:15 AM

Those examples aren't comparable. I have a RX100 and it struggles mightily with LEDs, this is not a pentax specific issue.

bcorson · 05-17-2013, 04:26 AM

Originally posted by incidentflux

So this is the same problem.
https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/pentax-k-5/209880-k-5-over-sensetive-led-lights.html

My Sony RX-100 efficiently handles LEDs.
http://sdrv.ms/16DEQwX

Sorry but I see the same blue in your Sony shots. Also the K5 shot looks like ISo was VERY high and that may be contributing to what you are seeing there. To do a fair comparison you would have to take the same scene with same settings not 2 randomn totally different scenes and set ups.

IchabodCrane · 05-17-2013, 06:12 AM

As long as you leave the JPEG image setting at an unmodified "Bright", colors will be prone to over-saturation. Suggest you either go -1 Saturation in Bright or switch to Neutral and then do the evaluation.

**JimJohnson** · 05-17-2013, 06:41 AM

Here is another beautiful test shot of my office coffee pot

This is a K-30 in TAv mode with a shoe mounted 56 LED panel and the 18-135 lens. Distance was about 4 feet / 122cm. Ambient room light was very low. The RAW file was opened in Photoshop Elements 11 for conversion to JPG, then the JPG opened in Microsoft Office Picture Manager solely to knock the size down to 1024X768. No adjustments were done to exposure or tonality. Other than it is obvious why I rarely use this panel for this type of photography, I see no overtly blue cast on anything - including the white trim on my office door.

Attached Images

View Picture EXIF

Anvh · 05-17-2013, 06:58 AM - **1 Like**

Jim there are leds and leds

This what standard led looks like for normal light.

As you can see a peak in the blue and little bit of other colours so it's not nice for colours when photographing or filming.
Leds for professional lighting for video and photography are often more balanced and have a wider spectrum of colours. Thats why you easily pay thousands of dollars sometime for such panels, it's the quality of the light.

SteveB · 05-17-2013, 10:27 AM

Originally posted by twitch

Those examples aren't comparable. I have a RX100 and it struggles mightily with LEDs, this is not a pentax specific issue.

The common factor being Sony sensors.

Sagitta · 05-17-2013, 12:10 PM

Originally posted by Anvh

Jim there are leds and leds

This what standard led looks like for normal light.

As you can see a peak in the blue and little bit of other colours so it's not nice for colours when photographing or filming.
Leds for professional lighting for video and photography are often more balanced and have a wider spectrum of colours. Thats why you easily pay thousands of dollars sometime for such panels, it's the quality of the light.

+1

I sometimes draft the 5000k LED bulb in my desk lamp for lighting purposes. It casts a wonderful effect. It doesn't mean when I shoot a blue LED someone is using for a sign or whatever that it won't look horrible. Heres a shot of a local restaurant with LEDs in the windows. This is unedited, straight OOC as the K-30 processed it.

EDIT: A quick search on flickr for "LED lighting problems" led to this guy's blog talking about it - and he shoots Canon
http://redfishingboat.com/2012/02/led-problems-in-concert-photography/

Last edited by Sagitta; 05-17-2013 at 12:17 PM.

JinDesu · 05-17-2013, 12:19 PM

Originally posted by incidentflux

So this is the same problem.
https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/pentax-k-5/209880-k-5-over-sensetive-led-lights.html

My Sony RX-100 efficiently handles LEDs.
http://sdrv.ms/16DEQwX

Your RX-100's first shot shows white where the blue LEDs are. It's not efficiently handled.

For everyone else - clicking the linked thread about the k-5 being over sensitive should answer some questions. it's a problem for all sensors, not just Pentax.

incidentflux · 05-17-2013, 10:50 PM

Originally posted by JinDesu

Your RX-100's first shot shows white where the blue LEDs are. It's not efficiently handled.

For everyone else - clicking the linked thread about the k-5 being over sensitive should answer some questions. it's a problem for all sensors, not just Pentax.

You're right, but the blue bleeding isn't that pronounced. At this point and I'm well and truly entrenched with Pentax with all the lenses I bought. However I did a search with the Nikon D7000 and couldn't find any threads like these. So something's a miss here.

Can someone please post some more samples if they can?

bcorson · 05-18-2013, 07:11 AM

Originally posted by incidentflux

You're right, but the blue bleeding isn't that pronounced. At this point and I'm well and truly entrenched with Pentax with all the lenses I bought. However I did a search if the Nikon D7000 and couldn't any threads like these. So something's a miss here.

Can someone please post some more samples if they can?

First of it is not possible to get proper comparisons how one camera versus another handles a situation unless you perform the evaluation at the same time under identical conditions. There are so many things that effect results that otherwise could change the the results. Many of the samples that we have seen have been at high ISO and relatively long exposure and probably hand help. Also as someone said photographing lights at night is a unique experience with its own set of difficulties. Blue in itself presents issues and again especially when there are heavy shadows which in themselves move things toward the blue end. I have spent a bit of time looking for pictures on the web of leds and I couldn,t find one that didn't have some bleeding of blue LED's. This is not a Pentax issue but rather a subject issue just as shooting snow scenes is a subject issue that needs to be dealt with.

Sagitta · 05-18-2013, 07:17 AM

Originally posted by incidentflux

You're right, but the blue bleeding isn't that pronounced. At this point and I'm well and truly entrenched with Pentax with all the lenses I bought. However I did a search if the Nikon D7000 and couldn't any threads like these. So something's a miss here.

Can someone please post some more samples if they can?

It's not a Pentax issue, its a Bayer filter issue. Any sensor with a Bayer filter is going to show this. LEDS don't use the green wavelength for light, which means the standard Bayer filter is not going to recieve about half the data it should when shooting an LED. It will get pure red and/or blue, with almost no shadow qualities involved causing that wonkiness.

Bayer filters are pretty much used by *everybody* so any claims of superiority of one brand over another is baseless unless they're using a different filter system entirely.

I'd be curious to see how a K5II would work on LEDs, actually.

VisualDarkness · 05-18-2013, 11:20 AM

Originally posted by Sagitta

It's not a Pentax issue, its a Bayer filter issue. Any sensor with a Bayer filter is going to show this. LEDS don't use the green wavelength for light, which means the standard Bayer filter is not going to recieve about half the data it should when shooting an LED. It will get pure red and/or blue, with almost no shadow qualities involved causing that wonkiness.

Bayer filters are pretty much used by *everybody* so any claims of superiority of one brand over another is baseless unless they're using a different filter system entirely.

I'd be curious to see how a K5II would work on LEDs, actually.

Hey, there's Sigma cameras around!

incidentflux · 05-18-2013, 12:20 PM - **1 Like**

We could wait for a debayered KIIx or diy...

Not for the faint of heart
https://www.google.ae/search?safe=off&q=debayering+a+dslr+&oq=debayering+a+d...rp.uT9Bop1GD70

VisualDarkness · 05-18-2013, 01:02 PM

Originally posted by incidentflux

We could wait for a debayered KIIx or diy...

Not for the faint of heart
https://www.google.ae/search?safe=off&q=debayering+a+dslr+&oq=debayering+a+d...rp.uT9Bop1GD70

Really cool link!

05-17-2013, 10:50 PM	#24
incidentflux Forum Member Join Date: Jan 2012 Location: Ajman, United Arab Emirates Posts: 55 Original Poster	Originally posted by JinDesu Your RX-100's first shot shows white where the blue LEDs are. It's not efficiently handled. For everyone else - clicking the linked thread about the k-5 being over sensitive should answer some questions. it's a problem for all sensors, not just Pentax. You're right, but the blue bleeding isn't that pronounced. At this point and I'm well and truly entrenched with Pentax with all the lenses I bought. However I did a search with the Nikon D7000 and couldn't find any threads like these. So something's a miss here. Can someone please post some more samples if they can? Last edited by incidentflux; 05-18-2013 at 01:40 PM.

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05-17-2013, 04:15 AM	#16
twitch Veteran Member Join Date: Nov 2009 Posts: 4,571	Those examples aren't comparable. I have a RX100 and it struggles mightily with LEDs, this is not a pentax specific issue.

05-17-2013, 04:26 AM	#17
bcorson Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2012 Location: Kanata, ON Photos: Albums Posts: 131	Originally posted by incidentflux So this is the same problem. https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/pentax-k-5/209880-k-5-over-sensetive-led-lights.html My Sony RX-100 efficiently handles LEDs. http://sdrv.ms/16DEQwX Sorry but I see the same blue in your Sony shots. Also the K5 shot looks like ISo was VERY high and that may be contributing to what you are seeing there. To do a fair comparison you would have to take the same scene with same settings not 2 randomn totally different scenes and set ups.

05-17-2013, 06:12 AM	#18
IchabodCrane Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2012 Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 1,728	As long as you leave the JPEG image setting at an unmodified "Bright", colors will be prone to over-saturation. Suggest you either go -1 Saturation in Bright or switch to Neutral and then do the evaluation.

05-17-2013, 06:58 AM - 1 Like	#20
Anvh Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2011 Posts: 4,616	Jim there are leds and leds This what standard led looks like for normal light. As you can see a peak in the blue and little bit of other colours so it's not nice for colours when photographing or filming. Leds for professional lighting for video and photography are often more balanced and have a wider spectrum of colours. Thats why you easily pay thousands of dollars sometime for such panels, it's the quality of the light.

05-17-2013, 10:27 AM	#21
SteveB Veteran Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: U.K. Posts: 685	Originally posted by twitch Those examples aren't comparable. I have a RX100 and it struggles mightily with LEDs, this is not a pentax specific issue. The common factor being Sony sensors.

05-17-2013, 12:10 PM	#22
Sagitta Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2011 Location: Maine Photos: Gallery Posts: 3,081	Originally posted by Anvh Jim there are leds and leds This what standard led looks like for normal light. As you can see a peak in the blue and little bit of other colours so it's not nice for colours when photographing or filming. Leds for professional lighting for video and photography are often more balanced and have a wider spectrum of colours. Thats why you easily pay thousands of dollars sometime for such panels, it's the quality of the light. +1 I sometimes draft the 5000k LED bulb in my desk lamp for lighting purposes. It casts a wonderful effect. It doesn't mean when I shoot a blue LED someone is using for a sign or whatever that it won't look horrible. Heres a shot of a local restaurant with LEDs in the windows. This is unedited, straight OOC as the K-30 processed it. EDIT: A quick search on flickr for "LED lighting problems" led to this guy's blog talking about it - and he shoots Canon http://redfishingboat.com/2012/02/led-problems-in-concert-photography/ Last edited by Sagitta; 05-17-2013 at 12:17 PM.

05-17-2013, 12:19 PM	#23
JinDesu Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2011 Location: New York City Photos: Gallery Posts: 5,638	Originally posted by incidentflux So this is the same problem. https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/pentax-k-5/209880-k-5-over-sensetive-led-lights.html My Sony RX-100 efficiently handles LEDs. http://sdrv.ms/16DEQwX Your RX-100's first shot shows white where the blue LEDs are. It's not efficiently handled. For everyone else - clicking the linked thread about the k-5 being over sensitive should answer some questions. it's a problem for all sensors, not just Pentax.

05-18-2013, 07:11 AM	#25
bcorson Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2012 Location: Kanata, ON Photos: Albums Posts: 131	Originally posted by incidentflux You're right, but the blue bleeding isn't that pronounced. At this point and I'm well and truly entrenched with Pentax with all the lenses I bought. However I did a search if the Nikon D7000 and couldn't any threads like these. So something's a miss here. Can someone please post some more samples if they can? First of it is not possible to get proper comparisons how one camera versus another handles a situation unless you perform the evaluation at the same time under identical conditions. There are so many things that effect results that otherwise could change the the results. Many of the samples that we have seen have been at high ISO and relatively long exposure and probably hand help. Also as someone said photographing lights at night is a unique experience with its own set of difficulties. Blue in itself presents issues and again especially when there are heavy shadows which in themselves move things toward the blue end. I have spent a bit of time looking for pictures on the web of leds and I couldn,t find one that didn't have some bleeding of blue LED's. This is not a Pentax issue but rather a subject issue just as shooting snow scenes is a subject issue that needs to be dealt with.

05-18-2013, 07:17 AM	#26
Sagitta Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2011 Location: Maine Photos: Gallery Posts: 3,081	Originally posted by incidentflux You're right, but the blue bleeding isn't that pronounced. At this point and I'm well and truly entrenched with Pentax with all the lenses I bought. However I did a search if the Nikon D7000 and couldn't any threads like these. So something's a miss here. Can someone please post some more samples if they can? It's not a Pentax issue, its a Bayer filter issue. Any sensor with a Bayer filter is going to show this. LEDS don't use the green wavelength for light, which means the standard Bayer filter is not going to recieve about half the data it should when shooting an LED. It will get pure red and/or blue, with almost no shadow qualities involved causing that wonkiness. Bayer filters are pretty much used by everybody so any claims of superiority of one brand over another is baseless unless they're using a different filter system entirely. I'd be curious to see how a K5II would work on LEDs, actually.

05-18-2013, 11:20 AM	#27
VisualDarkness Veteran Member Join Date: Nov 2011 Location: Uppsala, Sweden Photos: Gallery Posts: 4,439	Originally posted by Sagitta It's not a Pentax issue, its a Bayer filter issue. Any sensor with a Bayer filter is going to show this. LEDS don't use the green wavelength for light, which means the standard Bayer filter is not going to recieve about half the data it should when shooting an LED. It will get pure red and/or blue, with almost no shadow qualities involved causing that wonkiness. Bayer filters are pretty much used by everybody so any claims of superiority of one brand over another is baseless unless they're using a different filter system entirely. I'd be curious to see how a K5II would work on LEDs, actually. Hey, there's Sigma cameras around!

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05-18-2013, 12:20 PM - 1 Like	#28
incidentflux Forum Member Join Date: Jan 2012 Location: Ajman, United Arab Emirates Posts: 55 Original Poster	We could wait for a debayered KIIx or diy... Not for the faint of heart https://www.google.ae/search?safe=off&q=debayering+a+dslr+&oq=debayering+a+d...rp.uT9Bop1GD70

05-18-2013, 01:02 PM	#29
VisualDarkness Veteran Member Join Date: Nov 2011 Location: Uppsala, Sweden Photos: Gallery Posts: 4,439	Originally posted by incidentflux We could wait for a debayered KIIx or diy... Not for the faint of heart https://www.google.ae/search?safe=off&q=debayering+a+dslr+&oq=debayering+a+d...rp.uT9Bop1GD70 Really cool link!