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11-12-2013, 09:41 AM   #16
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I'm not saying it's not user error. I know how to adjust in exposure compensation. But I don't want to have to. Nikon's Active Dynamic Lighting (ADL) does what I want -- it changes the exposure metering if there would be blown highlights. (It also bumps up shadow detail digitally, but the part I care about is the active metering adjustments).

Everblog2: Highlight protection with Nikon's Active D-Lighting


Do any Pentax cameras offer this feature?

Charles.

11-12-2013, 10:23 AM   #17
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QuoteOriginally posted by ChopperCharles Quote
I'm not saying it's not user error. I know how to adjust in exposure compensation. But I don't want to have to. Nikon's Active Dynamic Lighting (ADL) does what I want -- it changes the exposure metering if there would be blown highlights. (It also bumps up shadow detail digitally, but the part I care about is the active metering adjustments).

Everblog2: Highlight protection with Nikon's Active D-Lighting


Do any Pentax cameras offer this feature?

Charles.
The active D lighting feature only works on JPEG output. A lot of these features only work on JPEG output. So you give up the quality of the original RAW image and further deteriorate it with the digital shadow enhancement - this may be OK if the camera is very low noise and the enhancement is not too great.

I think someone said there is a mode that will prevent blown highlights that you can use - depends on your camera - mine doesn't have this and like you I've often wondered why not - I think its may have to do with the difficulty in discerning specular from diffuse highlights. When you import your photos in your computer, just hit auto enhance and the shadows will probably be boosted. And you can make further adjustments if you want before you go to the JPEG output or print.

Note that there are only 3 factors in setting exposure... ISO, Aperture and Shutter speed. These 3 settings are the only settings that determine what is output from the sensor - i.e. the RAW output. Everything else is digital manipulation.
11-12-2013, 12:15 PM   #18
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no, you're wrong. Active-D lighting has two stages: The active stage adjusts the EXPOSURE, which also affects the raw file. Then it boosts shadows, the same as Pentax shadow correction. But there is the active correction portion, which does adjust the exposure in just the situation above.

Charles.
11-12-2013, 02:01 PM   #19
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Just thought I'd throw this out there. I got the K-30 a few months back. I do a lot of macro photography ( butterflies ). I've been doing this for a number of years, on an almost daily basis ( during the spring/summer ).

When I switched from the K200D to the K30, I noticed a marked increase in the number of overexposures I've been getting. For certain problematic butterflies ( white or bright yellow ), I would always dial in a bit of exposure compensation. On the K30, I'm usually using matrix metering and TAV mode. The metering on the palm trick works well if you know the lighting isn't going to change ( no passing clouds ), and you're going to be using a consistent degree of magnification. This only seems to happen under bright sunlight. The K200D seemed to be able to handle this much better.

I haven't played around with the K30 enough with other lenses to see if this is a lens specific issue.

Just one more data point.

11-12-2013, 02:03 PM   #20
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QuoteOriginally posted by ChopperCharles Quote
no, you're wrong. Active-D lighting has two stages: The active stage adjusts the EXPOSURE, which also affects the raw file. Then it boosts shadows, the same as Pentax shadow correction. But there is the active correction portion, which does adjust the exposure in just the situation above.

Charles.
I see your point. Yes, of course, if the exposure is changed, then the RAW file will be changed.

Lets say you had the feature you were looking for. You will still get plenty of photos that are not properly exposed. Because there is too much contrast in the scene. You will find that part or all of what you are interested in the scene is much darker than the highlight and unacceptably dark in the final image. Boosting the shadow in post processing may also be unacceptable because too much boost may be required and can result in a visible noise. The highlights have to be allowed to blow out in many cases. Spot, centre-weight and matrix metering help you tell the camera what is important in the scene and to set the exposure based on that area. To get a perfect image with no blowouts, you have to control the light as well. In the case of your bird shot, because of its white neck, you would have to catch it in a softer light like shade or overcast sky - or maybe catch it in a contrasting (colour-wise) but brighter background.

The point is, what you are asking for will not always solve your problem, so you will still be left with having to compensate in some way.
11-12-2013, 04:23 PM   #21
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I know it's not a catch-all for every situation, but it'd be damned useful for most of my shooting situations. Especially when I'm dealing with subjects like this, or worse yet, stage lighting, where the subjects are lit quite brightly -- yet with constantly changing intensities, and I don't give one flying fark about the background. Situations where a blown highlight is someone's face, or someone's dress, and once the moment has passed it can never be captured correctly again.

Was hoping the K-30 would be better at this than my K-x :/
Not that i dislike my K-30, mind you. The image quality, weather sealing, autofocus, high iso, and star tracking capabilities are greatly appreciated. But, active D would be *extremely* useful to me in a great deal of my shooting situations.

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11-12-2013, 04:58 PM   #22
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Iv'e noticed in my k-30 that the Saturation and contrast values come set pretty high in factory settings.

if you check the sample pics from image resource and compare them with other cameras you can see it.
11-12-2013, 06:46 PM   #23
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QuoteOriginally posted by ChopperCharles Quote
I'm not saying it's not user error. I know how to adjust in exposure compensation. But I don't want to have to. Nikon's Active Dynamic Lighting (ADL) does what I want -- it changes the exposure metering if there would be blown highlights. (It also bumps up shadow detail digitally, but the part I care about is the active metering adjustments).

Everblog2: Highlight protection with Nikon's Active D-Lighting


Do any Pentax cameras offer this feature?

Charles.
All recent and current Pentax cameras have this feature. Just turn on Highlight Correction in the menu system. If needed, the camera will clandestinely underexpose by 1 stop via changing the ISO downward by 1 stop, though it won't report that in the EXIF. Hope that helps.

11-13-2013, 06:02 AM   #24
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Nope. Highlight correction is digital, and has no effect on raw files. It does not effect the exposure at all, and highlights are still blown -- they're just blown a little bit less. I want a setting that is "never ever EVER blow my highlights. Ever." The highlight correction in Pentax is not active, it's passive.

Charles.
11-13-2013, 06:58 AM   #25
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QuoteOriginally posted by ChopperCharles Quote
Nope. Highlight correction is digital, and has no effect on raw files. It does not effect the exposure at all, and highlights are still blown -- they're just blown a little bit less. I want a setting that is "never ever EVER blow my highlights. Ever." The highlight correction in Pentax is not active, it's passive.

Charles.
Of course it's digital... it's a digital camera. And,yes, HC underexposes the RAW file by one stop via reduced ISO when needed. I have probably a hundred RAW files on my computer where Aperture doesn't detect the HC tag that are all exactly underexposed by one stop. Lightroom fortunately recognizes the tag and boost the RAW file exposure back up. It's the Pentax in-camera JPEG engine that restores the exposure except for the brightest spots. It works exactly the same on Pentax and Canon cameras.
11-13-2013, 09:34 AM   #26
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Can you please go back and read this thread a bit before making such a quick (and completely off-base) posting? I'm talking about ACTIVE Dynamic Lighting, and using the example as implemented on Nikon cameras.

On a Nikon camera, if you turn ADL on, the EXPOSURE WILL CHANGE. I'm not talking about highlights being cut by finagling with ISO, I'm talking about the camera actively adjusting the exposure settings AT THE TIME OF CAPTURE such that the highlights are not blown in the first place -- not "fixing" the blown highlights after the fact with digital processing. The Nikon system effectively dials in exposure compensation as you're shooting, in order to ensure that highlights are never blown. That's a COMPLETELY different solution. Instead of trying to fix blown highlights with digital manipulation, ADL simply adjusts exposure so that it doesn't blow the highlights in the first place.

On a Nikon, you can easily see this. Point the camera at a dark object so that it almost completely fills the frame, and have a bright object (like a lamp) in the corner of the frame. With ADL off, the camera will expose for the entire frame. The dark object will be exposed correctly and the light will be completely blown out.

But turn ADL on, and the aperture and shutter speed will change, and the EXPOSURE will be adjusted such that the light will not be blown out. The exact same framing will result in different shutter speed and/or aperture value when ADL is turned on. This will of course under-expose the dark object, but for the situations I need ADL for, this is not a problem.

Charles.
11-13-2013, 09:51 AM   #27
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SO, and this is what really confuses me… what is the difference between turning on ADL and looking at your histogram and adjusting the image? I assume you have to go into a menu to turn on ADL, my exposure adjustment is done while shooting, no need for menus. It sounds like you're saying you can set the camera to expose based on the brightest highlight in the image. And that sounds cool. If that feature is critical to you then go for it. So, are you going to show us some pictures so we know what you're talking about?

I'd be interested to see how it works. I actually don't even worry about this. In lighting conditions that need special attention, I bracket. ANd I've found there is no way out of bracketing. It's pretty hard to predict what the exact exposure I want is. And I suspect I'd continue to do that even with ADL turned on. Especially since bracketing gives me multiple images to work with should I decide to go the HDR route. Usually, you don't want to clip your highlights, but you want some dynamic range in your shadows as well. You've done a great job of explaining this Nikon Technology.. you just haven't showed us how it works or if it works. And since many of us already have ways to deal with the lighting problems you discuss, neither can we evaluate if the Nikon method is easier or harder to apply than traditional methods, etc. You'd really need to do a side by side work flow.

You've established that there's an exposure setting in Nikon that stops you from blowing your highlights. You've yet to establish that it's overall, in the great scheme of things, a useful innovation.

Hell, you haven't even established that your Nikon ADL system would do a better job with that bird you posted, than the K-30 did. Sure it might turn the whole bird except the blasted parts into one big shadow, but would that actually be better? Would it improve the picture? You seem to have missed that part about realizing what the limitations of your sensor are and picking the best compromise. IN many cases, having a small blasted highlight is much better than huge black areas. Especially if there's a light source in the frame.

Last edited by normhead; 11-13-2013 at 10:12 AM.
11-13-2013, 10:32 AM   #28
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QuoteOriginally posted by ChopperCharles Quote
Nope. Highlight correction is digital, and has no effect on raw files. It does not effect the exposure at all, and highlights are still blown
It appears that is not the case on the K-01. I took 2 identical photos with overexposed white areas, one with Highlight Correction off, and one with it on.
Opening the dng images in ufraw and using the analyser, the raw histograms are different. In the image without highlight correction, there was 4.7% overexposure, reducing to 0.3% with highlight correction on.
11-13-2013, 10:44 AM   #29
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QuoteQuote:
From Adams review of the K-3

The K-3's white balance is very accurate, and its metering system has been tuned to avoid overexposure whenever possible.
There ya go. Already done... no need to trot out any more Nikon Marketing Hype.

Now all you need to do to get this back on even keel, would be to get Nikon to admit, photographers have done just fine for years without ADL, and that an impossible lighting situation, is still an impossible lighting situation even with it.
11-13-2013, 11:19 AM   #30
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QuoteOriginally posted by normhead Quote
There ya go. Already done... no need to trot out any more Nikon Marketing Hype.
But he is having trouble with raw files from his kx and k-30, not a k-3.
I don't know if they have the highlight correction on the raw, or not.
However, if highlight correction was not done on the raw sensor , it would be pretty poor engineering and lead to clipped highlights being mapped down which would be horrible, and surely is not the case.
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