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11-23-2013, 10:43 PM   #1
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Custom Image w/ RAW - How does it work?

The custom image settings (Vibrant, Bleach Bypass, Monochrome, etc.)... How are these settings achieved in the camera's "brain"?

I recently started shooting in the RAW format, just to get a feel for the PP possibilities (which I am liking very much, BTW). I saw some images online (on this forum, actually), which I recognized as the "Cross Processing" image setting. I like the Cross Processing setting because of the randomness and the surprise, how colors will pop bizarrely or how images will have that je ne sais quoi that makes them feel pleasant... So, with my K30 set to record RAW, I selected the cross processing setting... and I guess it got me thinking about what it is in the sensor/camera that creates the effects in the "Custom Image" settings.

I have Googled and searched the forums, but I think my question is too vague and a lot of unrelated topics come up.

If the RAW format is my "Digital NeGative", why are my Cross Processing settings applied to my DNG files? Why aren't all RAW images recorded "as shot"? Again, I am a newb to the RAW format, so I'm probably just not considering something, here...

Thanks for any clarification.

~Sara

11-23-2013, 10:47 PM   #2
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QuoteOriginally posted by severalsnakes Quote
The custom image settings (Vibrant, Bleach Bypass, Monochrome, etc.)... How are these settings achieved in the camera's "brain"?

I recently started shooting in the RAW format, just to get a feel for the PP possibilities (which I am liking very much, BTW). I saw some images online (on this forum, actually), which I recognized as the "Cross Processing" image setting. I like the Cross Processing setting because of the randomness and the surprise, how colors will pop bizarrely or how images will have that je ne sais quoi that makes them feel pleasant... So, with my K30 set to record RAW, I selected the cross processing setting... and I guess it got me thinking about what it is in the sensor/camera that creates the effects in the "Custom Image" settings.

I have Googled and searched the forums, but I think my question is too vague and a lot of unrelated topics come up.

If the RAW format is my "Digital NeGative", why are my Cross Processing settings applied to my DNG files? Why aren't all RAW images recorded "as shot"? Again, I am a newb to the RAW format, so I'm probably just not considering something, here...

Thanks for any clarification.

~Sara
Raw files simply contain the raw sensor data captured at the time of exposure as well as additional metadata about the exposure and your selected settings. The metadata controls how certain software will develop the raw file by default, but almost all settings (including your custom image profile) can be changed retroactively using a raw converter.

If you're using the pentax desktop software, it should be able to apply cross processing when showing you a preview.

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11-23-2013, 11:09 PM   #3
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QuoteOriginally posted by Adam Quote
Raw files simply contain the raw sensor data captured at the time of exposure as well as additional metadata about the exposure and your selected settings. The metadata controls how certain software will develop the raw file by default, but almost all settings (including your custom image profile) can be changed retroactively using a raw converter.

If you're using the pentax desktop software, it should be able to apply cross processing when showing you a preview.
I see, I see. Thanks for your reply... I have the "SilkyPix" software that came with my K30 purchase, and also Photoshop Elements 11, with its limited ACR. I have been using PSE for what limited RAW PP experience I have, so again, I am probably looking something over, but I cannot see a setting in SilkyPix or PSE that will recall the metadata from the recorded image (with the Cross Processing setting), nor do I see an option in SilkyPix that will apply a "randomized" Cross Processing setting. (It's a lot less fun to design the surprise with sliders and preview images!)

Am I asking for something that doesn't exist? Should I shoot JPEG if I want the fun of Cross Processing? Or are my post processing programs limited because the versions I own are not fully enabled somehow?
11-24-2013, 08:16 AM   #4
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I have seen several references to Pentax desktop software which apparently was included with previous Pentax camera models, but not the K30. I would also like to be able to apply some of the Pentax custom image settings to Raw files, but it is not possible in Lightroom either. Lightroom does not contain the Pentax camera presets as it does for certain other camera models.

So I believe that if we want to use the custom image settings we will have to shoot JPEG.

11-24-2013, 01:03 PM   #5
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If you Google 'Cross Processing with Photoshop', you'll get a whole bunch of hits, some for Elements, some for Photoshop.

Tuggie76
11-24-2013, 02:50 PM   #6
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Good eye, Tuggie. It's not a spur-of-the-moment, seat-of-my-pants, fun-time surprise, but these are the kinds of effects I want. Looks like I should take a few Photoshop tutorials. :-)

Thanks, again!
11-25-2013, 07:28 AM   #7
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I don't know if this works with RAW, but it does with RAW+.... When I load the DNG file into PSE 11's ACR, the initial image shown is 'As Shot'. In other words, with (most? all?) the jpeg customization settings contained in the embedded thumbnail.

As I have big, fast SD cards and rarely shoot more than a few frames in a burst (mostly single frames), I lose nothing using RAW+ as my default setting.
11-25-2013, 11:24 AM   #8
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QuoteOriginally posted by JimJohnson Quote
I don't know if this works with RAW, but it does with RAW+.... When I load the DNG file into PSE 11's ACR, the initial image shown is 'As Shot'. In other words, with (most? all?) the jpeg customization settings contained in the embedded thumbnail.

As I have big, fast SD cards and rarely shoot more than a few frames in a burst (mostly single frames), I lose nothing using RAW+ as my default setting.
Jim, I thought the "As Shot" option would be what retrieved that custom image metadata and saved me from myself as far as editing the "cross processing" back into the images, but, alas. That's either not the answer or I'm doing something wrong. I can click "as shot" and it shows me the image exactly as it was captured (i.e. - how it actually appeared), and the auto/daylight/tungsten settings will all make standardized adjustments to "correct" the image accordingly. I still have not found a "randomizer"... However, the web search that Tuggie suggested did get me where I wanted to go. Now when I edit the DNG images in PSE, I just jack up the colors in the Levels adjustment and voila! Instant wacky colors. It does take the surprise out of it, though...

11-25-2013, 12:11 PM   #9
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QuoteOriginally posted by severalsnakes Quote
Jim, I thought the "As Shot" option would be what retrieved that custom image metadata and saved me from myself as far as editing the "cross processing" back into the images, but, alas. That's either not the answer or I'm doing something wrong. I can click "as shot" and it shows me the image exactly as it was captured (i.e. - how it actually appeared), and the auto/daylight/tungsten settings will all make standardized adjustments to "correct" the image accordingly. I still have not found a "randomizer"... However, the web search that Tuggie suggested did get me where I wanted to go. Now when I edit the DNG images in PSE, I just jack up the colors in the Levels adjustment and voila! Instant wacky colors. It does take the surprise out of it, though...
Maybe 'As Shot' in ACR only preserves the camera's white balance setting. I'll have to do some experimentation.

Late this past summer I was at Navy Pier in Chicago taking shots during the Tall Ships Festival. I was shooting RAW+. I don't chimp every shot I take, but when I did, I discovered that I had accidentally bumped the white balance from AWB to tungsten. The blue water and sky sure were pretty, but the blue cast on everything else was not! My wife thought I had lost all those shots, but I told her no.

When I opened the DNG version of one of those shots (and I just repeated the experiment) in PSE11, the image was first loaded in ACR 'As Shot'. Meaning the image was blue. The RAW (DNG) file was of course easily fixed. Since I rarely use any in-camera jpeg customization other than Natural and AWB, I had hoped ALL customization was embedded in the thumbnail inside the DNG file.

While I prefer to do all my customization in PP, now you've piqued my interest to check this topic out in more depth - as soon as I can find some spare time.
11-25-2013, 04:32 PM   #10
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QuoteOriginally posted by JimJohnson Quote
Maybe 'As Shot' in ACR only preserves the camera's white balance setting. I'll have to do some experimentation.

Late this past summer I was at Navy Pier in Chicago taking shots during the Tall Ships Festival. I was shooting RAW+. I don't chimp every shot I take, but when I did, I discovered that I had accidentally bumped the white balance from AWB to tungsten. The blue water and sky sure were pretty, but the blue cast on everything else was not! My wife thought I had lost all those shots, but I told her no.

When I opened the DNG version of one of those shots (and I just repeated the experiment) in PSE11, the image was first loaded in ACR 'As Shot'. Meaning the image was blue. The RAW (DNG) file was of course easily fixed. Since I rarely use any in-camera jpeg customization other than Natural and AWB, I had hoped ALL customization was embedded in the thumbnail inside the DNG file.

While I prefer to do all my customization in PP, now you've piqued my interest to check this topic out in more depth - as soon as I can find some spare time.
Jim, that is interesting about the tungsten setting that was preserved to ACR... In my limited RAW shooting experience (it's only been a week or two since I made the change), I went with a purist's spirit and changed all of the settings in my camera (which I do understand apply almost exclusively to a captured JPEG and not a RAW file) to neutral settings. AWB, no sharpening, no shadow or highlight correction, etc. Just so I could think of myself as starting from scratch when it came to PP.

I have only tried shooting RAW (not RAW+, which I assume save the JPEG along with in-camera effects alongside the "as shot" RAW) and the only Custom Image setting I tried was Cross-Processing.

I also understand that the Adobe Camera RAW processor that Elements 11 utilizes is not a fully-fuctional ACR like the program that would come with Lightroom or the full Photoshop. I wonder if the full version of ACR has these features that I'm imagining... ?
11-25-2013, 05:29 PM   #11
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I've always understood "as shot' to relate to white balance only, meaning you have the option to change in a RAW processor. Also Lightroom and ACR are designed to get the best out of your photos, any manipulation is more the job of Photoshop.

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11-26-2013, 10:07 AM   #12
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QuoteOriginally posted by severalsnakes Quote
Jim, that is interesting about the tungsten setting that was preserved to ACR... In my limited RAW shooting experience (it's only been a week or two since I made the change), I went with a purist's spirit and changed all of the settings in my camera (which I do understand apply almost exclusively to a captured JPEG and not a RAW file) to neutral settings. AWB, no sharpening, no shadow or highlight correction, etc. Just so I could think of myself as starting from scratch when it came to PP.

I have only tried shooting RAW (not RAW+, which I assume save the JPEG along with in-camera effects alongside the "as shot" RAW) and the only Custom Image setting I tried was Cross-Processing.

I also understand that the Adobe Camera RAW processor that Elements 11 utilizes is not a fully-fuctional ACR like the program that would come with Lightroom or the full Photoshop. I wonder if the full version of ACR has these features that I'm imagining... ?
I use Photoshop CS6 with ACR 8, the full version still only brings in the standard raw information.

FYI should you want to process any Jpeg part of Raw+, or any jpeg file for that matter, via ACR they can be opened in ACR with the custom image setting jpeg captures utilizing Adobe Bridge. Simply use Control + R on any selected jpeg image in Bridge and it should open in ACR..
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