Forgot Password
Pentax Camera Forums Home
 

Reply
Show Printable Version Search this Thread
11-24-2013, 01:31 PM   #1
Pentaxian
Zafar Iqbal's Avatar

Join Date: Oct 2010
Photos: Gallery
Posts: 1,167
Image settings representing RAW data in a better way.

I've for a long time been bothered by my image settings and feel I've tried all sorts of things - I've always had a problem getting used to the preview on the display vs final result.

Perhaps I'm expecting too much, but hear me out: I had a studio shoot today. I set up the light, but ended up dialing the output down because the model was wearing a scarf with white silky cloth. It clipped too much during my initial light setup. Next to the white part there's a yellow silky cloth, and it too was clipping a lot. I know I can't fully trust the cam display since it's a processed JPG, but I've tried and tried to find settings that would better reflect what I'm actually getting but can't seem to find any.

After Import I see my initial light setup was perfect and nothing clipped at all.

My settings are based on neutral but tweaked towards slightly flatter look, so it could reflect the light dynamic better. I've earlier tried much flatter settings but those proved to be horrible - still, the preview displays much more contrast.

What can I do? I've now used dSLR's for 3 years and simply can't get used to being that much off.

Edit: I used histogram and clipping warning all the time.

11-24-2013, 02:04 PM   #2
Pentaxian




Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Wiltshire/Hampshire
Photos: Albums
Posts: 1,749
The preview shows the processed JPEG - have you tried playing with the brightness/contrast of the JPEG settings to try and get them to match your RAW aspirations?
11-24-2013, 02:11 PM   #3
Pentaxian
Zafar Iqbal's Avatar

Join Date: Oct 2010
Photos: Gallery
Posts: 1,167
Original Poster
Yeah, exactly. I've tried but nothing seems to come close enough.
11-25-2013, 01:21 AM   #4
Veteran Member
adwb's Avatar

Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Bristol UK
Photos: Gallery
Posts: 1,632
I assume for the first example you were using a hand held meter? If not go get one. We all have found that the because of the greater dynamic range the JPEG representation on the lcd warns of problems not present in the raw output.
This question had been asked many times before and the best advice has always been to alter ,as you have ,the JPEG settings and live with the resulting poor JPEG on the lcd.

There also is a way that reflects the dynamic range to the raw but gives you a weird lcd image colour wise, tried it once and it works , but I can't remember how to set it up or what it was called to point you to the threads on it?

11-25-2013, 07:04 AM   #5
Site Supporter
JimJohnson's Avatar

Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Lake Superior - Michigan
Photos: Gallery
Posts: 2,270
This is a really tough one, and why I depend on the LCD primarily to check composition for elements in the scene I hadn't previously noticed, and not for color or exposure except in a rough manner.

My assumption is the LCD display deliberately has more contrast and less dynamic range to accommodate use in bright sunshine. Without this attribute, the LCD would most likely be useless outdoors.
11-25-2013, 07:13 AM   #6
Pentaxian
Miguel's Avatar

Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Near Seattle
Photos: Gallery
Posts: 2,726
QuoteOriginally posted by Zafar Iqbal Quote
What can I do? I've now used dSLR's for 3 years and simply can't get used to being that much off.
All the comments above are good guidance. Use the LCD for framing. Learn to trust your own judgement built up after three years of practicing photography to interpret the thumbnail JPEG in a matter that is useful to your own needs. Your brain is far more accurate than the camera.

M
11-25-2013, 07:16 AM   #7
Pentaxian
Zafar Iqbal's Avatar

Join Date: Oct 2010
Photos: Gallery
Posts: 1,167
Original Poster
adwb: I don't have a handheld meter but would like one. I don't do that many studio shoots and have therefor been putting it off. Perhaps that really is the route to take, but it is also not just in studio environment, as it can also be elsewhere, that I experience difficulties. We had a sunny day yesterday and I did some family portraits outdoors. I deliberately tried to expose too bright, but in this case the photos still turned out too dark (much dark).

Jim: I know and most of the times I do the same but there are times when I am more critical about the exposures. The purpose of that particular studio shoot was to promote head scarfs and I therefore paid more attention to how light on them looked. I know a little clipping isn't going to be a problem later on, but to me it looked like too much clipping on the scarfs.

Miguel: Yeah, thanks. I've been trying but it's really hard. I suppose I should try much harder :P
11-25-2013, 07:36 AM   #8
Veteran Member
adwb's Avatar

Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Bristol UK
Photos: Gallery
Posts: 1,632
QuoteOriginally posted by Zafar Iqbal Quote
adwb: I don't have a handheld meter but would like one. I don't do that many studio shoots and have therefor been putting it off. Perhaps that really is the route to take, but it is also not just in studio environment, as it can also be elsewhere, that I experience difficulties. We had a sunny day yesterday and I did some family portraits outdoors. I deliberately tried to expose too bright, but in this case the photos still turned out too dark (much dark).

Jim: I know and most of the times I do the same but there are times when I am more critical about the exposures. The purpose of that particular studio shoot was to promote head scarfs and I therefore paid more attention to how light on them looked. I know a little clipping isn't going to be a problem later on, but to me it looked like too much clipping on the scarfs.

Miguel: Yeah, thanks. I've been trying but it's really hard. I suppose I should try much harder :P
what i would suggest is before you buy a meter is watch these videos from seconic and Jim Brady and you will see why a hand held meter can be a lifesaver , for me doing commercial work I cant mess about and while i rely on the camera 90% of the time there are times when I know i can't . even if you dont they will I hope be of interest to you as they demonstrate a lot of exposure tips .WARNING these are hour long sessions so be prepared!!!!

Blending Flash & Ambient Light for Beautiful Outdoor Portraits

Mastering Exposure for Landscape Photography

Mastering Exposure for Landscape Photography, Part II

11-25-2013, 07:52 AM   #9
Pentaxian
Zafar Iqbal's Avatar

Join Date: Oct 2010
Photos: Gallery
Posts: 1,167
Original Poster
Thanks, I'll have a look.
11-25-2013, 11:11 AM   #10
Pentaxian
ScooterMaxi Jim's Avatar

Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Minnesota
Posts: 1,501
Short of using the handheld meter, you might want to do some testing both in studio and outdoors to take a range of shots at increasing exposure levels, studying the histogram of each shot. Then go to the computer and find what histogram curve best matches the proper exposure that falls just short of blow out. Generally, you'll find that the ones with steep mountains peeking about 2/3rds to the right side - and with just a bit of a spike (25% up or less) on the far right will not result in blow-out. If uncertain about the range, use highlight correction (for outdoors typically - you shouldn't need added range for well illuminated studio work even with black and white elements in the shot). Let's not get into the highlight correction debate - those who never want to use it - won't; those of us who use it, find it helpful in certain situations and can deal with the minor shadow noise issue in exchange for extended dynamic range.

The histogram is consistent and helpful once you get to know where the exposure limits are; I find it far more helpful than the exposure warning system.
11-27-2013, 01:00 AM   #11
Veteran Member
adwb's Avatar

Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Bristol UK
Photos: Gallery
Posts: 1,632
Here we go I knew I had tried something before that worked to give accurate raw histogram on the lcd it's called uniWB.

I previously tried the white light method and it worked more on it here at these two links Zafar this should help you .

Uni-WB: Why and How

GUILLERMO LUIJK >> TUTORIALS >> UNIWB. MAKE CAMERA DISPLAY RELIABLE
11-28-2013, 02:51 PM   #12
Pentaxian
Zafar Iqbal's Avatar

Join Date: Oct 2010
Photos: Gallery
Posts: 1,167
Original Poster
ScooterMaxi Jim: I'm generally speaking OK with my exposures but it's the extreme cases that throws me off and it always gets me how much off I am under those situations. Sadly I can't test or practice in such conditions as often as I'd like to because most are natural light related, and it very unpredictable, especially now, how the light is going to be.I'm also faily OK with reading the histogram, until the scene gets too complicated, such as during low light photography - here I find that the histogram is useless because all the light sources that might be visible in the frame will be clipping by a lot, while the subjects (faces) will be much darker. For this though, I try to identify which area of the histogram I need to pay attention to. Some times it works, sometimes it's just too complicated.

adwb: Thanks - I've actually wondered myself what the "base WB", as I call it, would be. The link completely flew over my head though :P Might have to read them a couple more times.
11-29-2013, 02:04 AM   #13
Veteran Member
adwb's Avatar

Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Bristol UK
Photos: Gallery
Posts: 1,632
read the last part and try that the bit about a long exposure of a bright light, its the part that realy helps, set the camera to raw then jpeg of the same lighting scene and you will with the custom wb see the histogram difference.
11-29-2013, 03:50 PM   #14
Pentaxian
Zafar Iqbal's Avatar

Join Date: Oct 2010
Photos: Gallery
Posts: 1,167
Original Poster
hm, unless there is something I am still not getting I'd say I can't set a custom WB based on an overexposed shot. My K-30 won't allow it.

Edit: I'm trying the first method - I seem to understand the concept better this time.

Last edited by Zafar Iqbal; 11-29-2013 at 04:22 PM.
11-29-2013, 05:32 PM   #15
Pentaxian
Zafar Iqbal's Avatar

Join Date: Oct 2010
Photos: Gallery
Posts: 1,167
Original Poster
Oh boy, I think I completed the process correctly and the difference is huge.

I have a lamp close to the ceiling. No clipping at the ceiling with the custom WB but so much clipping with a neutralizing WB, that the ceiling looks like recovering details seems rather doubtful - naturally the histogram reflects this as well. There's some caustics effects going on up there and that could be of relevance when doing actual photography - just like I wasn't interested in clipping going on at the silky scarfs.

I'm very satisfied by this and now have to apply it during to actual shootings. As mentioned earlier, I often tend to underexpose a bit too much and that started to annoy me (I shoot in manual so it's not a metering thing). Hopefully this will consistently improve my exposures on that regard too.

Thanks a bunch.
Reply

Bookmarks
  • Submit Thread to Facebook Facebook
  • Submit Thread to Twitter Twitter
  • Submit Thread to Digg Digg
Tags - Make this thread easier to find by adding keywords to it!
cloth, display, image, image settings, k-30, k-50, light, pentax k30, pentax k50, preview, settings, setup
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Landscape What Better Way to Test a New Lens -- Camping in RMNP Colorado CJ Post Your Photos! 14 06-27-2013 04:09 PM
Keywords in image data toukan Troubleshooting and Beginner Help 5 06-05-2013 11:43 AM
Retrieve and save RAW data from buffer memory for a just-recorded JPEG image pilulkin Pentax K-30 & K-50 5 09-08-2012 06:18 PM
A great example of the idiots representing us in Washington... MRRiley General Talk 15 04-03-2010 04:23 PM
K-7 Noise Reduction settings effect Raw Image? Sideways Pentax DSLR Discussion 2 12-23-2009 05:55 AM



All times are GMT -7. The time now is 05:03 PM. | See also: NikonForums.com, CanonForums.com part of our network of photo forums!
  • Red (Default)
  • Green
  • Gray
  • Dark
  • Dark Yellow
  • Dark Blue
  • Old Red
  • Old Green
  • Old Gray
  • Dial-Up Style
Hello! It's great to see you back on the forum! Have you considered joining the community?
register
Creating a FREE ACCOUNT takes under a minute, removes ads, and lets you post! [Dismiss]
Top