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01-16-2014, 09:57 AM   #1
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Silent video start-stop

The thread below regarding start and stop noise of video clips was closed for good reason. Just one, basic point still needs to be clarified, though.

The K-01 is totally silent in starting and stopping when used with a remote control. The camera has several other features making it more suitable for videography. Benjamin Kanarek shoots short, commercial fashion videos with it (supplements to his main stills shooting), has won awards for the videos, and is happy with the quality.

Not sure if the K-3 is totally silent as well (someone can chime in), but I know the shutter is impressively quiet for stills.

01-16-2014, 01:05 PM   #2
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Well all my PENTAX cameras that can shoot video do so silence. With dSLRs, the mirror has to flip up out of the way first, so there will be a noise from that but it won't be recorded on the video if that's your concern.
In any case, good shooting always allows a few seconds at each end of the clip for editing out, so it's a rather academic question really.
01-16-2014, 01:11 PM   #3
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QuoteOriginally posted by Steve.Ledger Quote
Well all my PENTAX cameras that can shoot video do so silence. With dSLRs, the mirror has to flip up out of the way first, so there will be a noise from that but it won't be recorded on the video if that's your concern.
In any case, good shooting always allows a few seconds at each end of the clip for editing out, so it's a rather academic question really.
The complaint from the other thread was that the person used a separate audio recorder that would pick up the mirror slap whenever the k-30 was activated for video or when it stopped recording. Not sure if it's an actual concern (could always put the k-30 in a soundproof enclosure, but I guess that makes syncing much harder?).
01-16-2014, 08:42 PM   #4
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QuoteOriginally posted by JinDesu Quote
The complaint from the other thread was that the person used a separate audio recorder that would pick up the mirror slap whenever the k-30 was activated for video or when it stopped recording. Not sure if it's an actual concern (could always put the k-30 in a soundproof enclosure, but I guess that makes syncing much harder?).
That's correct. The mirror slap of the K-30 isn't heard in the video from the K-30 itself.

The startup noise isn't much of an issue as I have to start the camera manually myself when I am the subject of the video.
I can always start the K-30 first so the other recorders don't pick up that shutter noise. But even if it's recorded, the startup noise can easily be edited out.

The "end of recording" mirror slap noise is the main issue. When I am playing, and doing take after take, I never know exactly when the mirror is going to slap.
If the mirror slaps while I am in the middle of a take, the noise is heard by the performer (slightly distracting), but also by the separate audio recorder, and also the audio from the other camera. That "end of recording" mirror slap noise cannot be edited out of the separate audio or separate video.

The sequence of how I do things is typically :
1) start audio recorder (from a separate room) . This is continuous and uninterrupted.
2) start recording from my camcorder. This is continuous and uninterrupted.
3) start recording on the K-30 with the remote. This is mirror slap #1 .
4) start performing, play as many takes in a row as I can
5) K-30 video stops automatically in the middle of a take. This is mirror slap #2
6) after the most recent take is finished, go back to step 3

All of the K-30 mirror slaps are recorded by the audio recorder . The first one can be edited out of the separate audio and camcorder audio; but the second one cannot.

If both video start/stop mirror slaps were eliminated, I might be able to use a physical intervalometer to start/stop recording automatically on the K-30. There would be a short interruption in the K-30 video footage, but that's not dramatic, unlike the corruption of the audio of the main camera and audio recorder caused by the "end of recording" mirror slap.


Last edited by madbrain; 01-16-2014 at 09:04 PM.
01-16-2014, 08:54 PM   #5
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QuoteOriginally posted by JinDesu Quote
The complaint from the other thread was that the person used a separate audio recorder that would pick up the mirror slap whenever the k-30 was activated for video or when it stopped recording. Not sure if it's an actual concern (could always put the k-30 in a soundproof enclosure, but I guess that makes syncing much harder?).
Indeed, a soundproof enclosure may prevent the K-30 mic from picking anything up from the room, and thus the synchronization would be impossible ...
It may also be expensive and heavy, and might require a different type of support than the tripods I currently use.
01-16-2014, 09:10 PM   #6
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FYI, I contacted Pentax support about this . These are the exchanges I had so far :

QuoteOriginally posted by madbrain:
When recording video, there is a loud shutter noise when starting the video, as well as when recording automatically stops when hitting the maximum clip length.

I'm recording music video with multiple cameras and this loud shutter noise gets picked up by my other videos, as well by my audio , and by myself when I perform. It makes it impossible for me to use the K-30 even as a secondary video camera.

Since the camera is already in Live View mode when turning the knob to the video mode, there is no need for shutter actuation at either the start or the end of video recording.

I would like to request a firmware fix for this so that the video recording can start and stop silently.

QuoteOriginally posted by Pentax:
Dear Julien,

Thank you for contacting RICOH.

The noise you're hearing (and we hear on our K-30 here) is the mirror mechanism moving at the start and end of movie recording. You'll notice a flash of the image appears in the optical viewfinder when this happens even though Live View is automatically active in movie recording mode. Product engineering and design decisions themselves come out of our parent company, RICOH Corporation, in Japan. RICOH Corporation directs how all RICOH products are developed, and any strategic alliances of a global nature are formed at that level.
I will be happy to forward your correspondence to our parent company and RICOH subsidiaries, in a report designed for concerns such as these. RICOH always appreciates hearing from the consumer public regarding the use of RICOH products, or regarding suggestions for new products or improvements in any area. We appreciate you taking your time to express your thoughts.
QuoteOriginally posted by madbrain:
Yes, I'm aware that this is the "mirror slap" noise. I'm a software engineer, and what I am saying is that it is not technically necessary for the camera to switch to the optical viewfinder at the start of video recording, and then switch again at the end of the video recording.
Your competitor's video DSLR cameras, such as the Canon Rebel T3i which is one of my other cameras, don't need to slap the mirror either at the start or stop of video recording. They properly are silent during the startup and stop of video recording.
I want to be able to record from several angles, one with my Canon T3i and one with my Pentax K-30. But the K-30 shutter noise during startup/end of video recording interferes with that, and due to this problem, I am not able to use the K-30 for video at all.

I would love to hear the response from your engineers in Japan about this. I believe the behavior on the K-30 (and K-50, as reported to me by other users) is merely a bug, and may not be an intentional product decision. I don't think this noisy mirror slap behavior is documented in the manual, either. Doing 2 unnecessary mirror actuations for each video reduces the life of the camera, too. If the intent of the final mirror slap was to notify the videographer that the video recording had terminated, this should more logically be an optional setting under "sound effects", not done via mirror slap.

I hope your engineers will treat this problem as the bug that it is, and not an enhancement request, and provide a firmware update to correct it.

Thanks in advance,
Julien
01-16-2014, 09:18 PM   #7
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QuoteOriginally posted by ScooterMaxi Jim Quote
The thread below regarding start and stop noise of video clips was closed for good reason. Just one, basic point still needs to be clarified, though.

The K-01 is totally silent in starting and stopping when used with a remote control. The camera has several other features making it more suitable for videography. Benjamin Kanarek shoots short, commercial fashion videos with it (supplements to his main stills shooting), has won awards for the videos, and is happy with the quality.

Not sure if the K-3 is totally silent as well (someone can chime in), but I know the shutter is impressively quiet for stills.
Thanks, Jim . I did not think of the K-01 .I hope Pentax will listen to my bug report. But if not, this may be an acceptable option if one comes on the used market inexpensively enough.
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