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01-28-2014, 06:44 PM   #1
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No AA filter on mid-models - when?

I'm looking for predictions or guesses here. Now that Pentax has released two dslr's without the AA filter on the senior models, do you think they will create a mid-range model without an AA filter? Maybe when? Nikon's D5300 is AA filter-less, by comparison. Just raising the question as I'm contemplating possible future purchases.

01-28-2014, 07:02 PM   #2
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I think the K-01 already came very close?
The reason I doubt mid-tier models will have absolutely no AA filter is because they probably won't have all the fancy SR-based anti-moiree tools.
01-28-2014, 07:05 PM   #3
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It wouldn't surprise me if it happens, but it is over rated as a feature. You can sharpen K5 files to pretty close to where you can get K5 IIs files. I own a K3 and artifacts pop up a lot faster with sharpening those images than with my K5 II.
01-28-2014, 07:07 PM   #4
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QuoteOriginally posted by GlennG Quote
I'm looking for predictions or guesses here. Now that Pentax has released two dslr's without the AA filter on the senior models, do you think they will create a mid-range model without an AA filter? Maybe when? Nikon's D5300 is AA filter-less, by comparison. Just raising the question as I'm contemplating possible future purchases.
Probably soon. Nikon seems to have completely given up on AA filters (the D3300 is now filterless), so I'm sure the rest will eventually follow suit for the improved sharpness.

The real question is when Pentax will put the K-3's sensor in a mid-range body!


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01-28-2014, 07:32 PM   #5
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QuoteOriginally posted by Adam Quote
Probably soon. Nikon seems to have completely given up on AA filters (the D3300 is now filterless), so I'm sure the rest will eventually follow suit for the improved sharpness.

The real question is when Pentax will put the K-3's sensor in a mid-range body!
Adam, are you backing off your prediction of 20 MP sensors for mid-range models?
01-28-2014, 08:33 PM   #6
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QuoteOriginally posted by Adam Quote
Probably soon.
I'm guessing the same. However, by the time said mid-range is made available, one will probably be able to get the K3 for only $200 more, so one might as well just go ahead and get that. I didn't know about the D3300, though. Thanks for the information.
01-28-2014, 09:12 PM   #7
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Is it me or is AA filtering disappearing with the higher resolution cameras. Is it that AA is unnecessary for high res cameras?
01-28-2014, 10:49 PM   #8
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QuoteOriginally posted by gbeaton Quote
Is it me or is AA filtering disappearing with the higher resolution cameras. Is it that AA is unnecessary for high res cameras?
The phenomenon behind moire is that things are lining up with the camera's 'pixel grid'. It's a lot easier for that to happen on a 1 MP image than a 20 MP image.

So yes, the higher the MP, the less you need an AA filter.

01-28-2014, 10:53 PM   #9
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I thought the AA filter Pentax used was so weak that it's almost as if it's not there.
02-03-2014, 08:26 AM   #10
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AA is going away with higher MP

QuoteOriginally posted by gbeaton Quote
Is it me or is AA filtering disappearing with the higher resolution cameras. Is it that AA is unnecessary for high res cameras?
THe function of AA is basically to make a lens worse so that the resolution is more compatible with the sensor. As the resolution goes up, it is no longer that essential to make the lens appears worse. Medium format cameras typically have much higher resolution and so they never had AA since they don't need it.
02-03-2014, 08:49 AM   #11
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I just don't buy that removing the AA filter actually changes anything. This was argued back and forth a lot. I sharpen all files -- with AA filter or, without them. I just sharpen those taken on my K5 II and K-01 quite a bit more than I do those taken on my K3 (because artifacts show up faster on the K3 files). The end result is very similar with regard to sharpness.

There were several threads going comparing the K5 II to the K 5 IIs with regard to sharpness and I honestly couldn't see a difference in the files after processing and DXO Mark couldn't tell a difference in the sensors on testing. Removing the AA filter is just really over rated as a way to improve your photo's sharpness.
02-03-2014, 08:57 AM   #12
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QuoteOriginally posted by Rondec Quote
There were several threads going comparing the K5 II to the K 5 IIs with regard to sharpness and I honestly couldn't see a difference in the files after processing and DXO Mark couldn't tell a difference in the sensors on testing. Removing the AA filter is just really over rated as a way to improve your photo's sharpness.
Thanks, just the kind of real world experience that I seek. Though I have no experience, I was coming to your opinion as well. The no-AA filter thing has certainly caught the attention of the marketers, however!
02-03-2014, 09:04 AM   #13
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A image comparo I did back when the k-5II and k-5IIs came out.



Same unsharp mask applied to both files. I found the k-5IIs could handle more sharpening in that shot than the k-5II. Unfortunately I do not have the k-5IIs so I took it from Imaging Resources. Just an example - but not an end-all example.
02-03-2014, 01:21 PM   #14
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QuoteOriginally posted by gbeaton Quote
Is it me or is AA filtering disappearing with the higher resolution cameras. Is it that AA is unnecessary for high res cameras?
I think it is a combination of it being less of a necessity because of resolution and because of processing power that can be thrown at fixing moire which might arise.
02-04-2014, 09:37 AM   #15
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I really don't like what Nikon is doing, though. And its dragging the whole industry with it.
First of all, it releases new cameras at a breakneck speed! How can anyone get used to their camera when they release two new models before you even get the hang of yours?
Secondly, they re-started the MP war. With the D800 and the 24MP entry-level cameras. They kept a low-MP pro model, but they can afford to have many models. The MP war is a big problem for a company like Pentax, with a small lineup. Pentax can't afford to have a high-MP pro body and a low-MP pro body and a high-MP entry level..
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