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03-12-2014, 02:31 PM   #61
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QuoteOriginally posted by stevebrot Quote
Sorry...that is just one of the first things in the user manual and reflects my experience in several years use (since v1.0). What is important is that the changes that are done in the user interface are identical to those in the eventual exported output (WYSIWYG). I don't care how Adobe manages it under the skin. My experience has been that if you work top-down, the ability to manage PP induced artifact (jaggies, blotchies, banding, halos, etc.) is much enhanced.

Regarding the camera calibration pane, good point. I have always considered it to be an import, not a develop setting per se and why it is not in one of the preferences dialogs is a mystery to me. I suspect that it is at the bottom because it is one of things that should seldom, if ever be useful since more flexible controls are located on the other panes. To be honest, I never use the camera calibration pane and have it set on Adobe Standard (the default). I do, however have a couple of custom presets that represent my baseline changes that I almost always make after cropping, spotting, and white balance adjustment. I suppose I could change the default to one of the other options and tweak the sliders a little and set that to the default, but since I have several cameras as well as scanned files, I just leave that sleeping dog lie.
Steve
I tend to agree with both of you at different points. LR operations have been more or less in order, especially since version 3.x where Adobe fixed some things. That said, the Adobe product manager has conceded that the camera calibration function is misplaced. I think a fair share of users would be confused by having it so close to WB up top, but it is an imperfect layout.

Steve, perhaps the reason you don't use the camera calibration pane much is because Pentax shooters only have a single choice of options there by default. Canon & Nikon shooters have jpeg scene modes replicated for raw development. As a Canon shooter the usefulness of this far exceeds my expectations. Many steps gave been spared.

M

03-13-2014, 05:05 AM   #62
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QuoteOriginally posted by BrianR Quote
What will be different is the human factor, if you first set Saturation to +100, you might find Vibrance of +80 to be to your liking. If you first set Vibrance to +100, you might find Saturation of +80 to be to your liking. So working in a different order might lead the user to different settings. In this sense, I've also understood the develop module from top to bottom was laid out in the order that the creators felt to be the optimal workflow. At least in a general sense, and certainly not intending to stop people from working bottom to top or moving around whatever way they prefer or applying profiles on import.
I agree with that - there's certainly a logic to the order in which you want to make your adjustments to get the best results because it will affect the choices you make in the adjustments you apply. But I doubt that the RAW converter
applies the adjustments in the order you made them. In the case of RAWtherapee, the designers explicitly stated what that order is. I would imagine that ACRaw, Silkypix, PDCU, etc. all do things in a similar way.

Now, the line between RAW conversion and photo editing may be a bit fuzzy, and Lightroom does allow you to do a lot of things beyond the conversion itself. It may be that Lightroom applies some of those operations in the order you
entered them.

Cheers

---------- Post added 03-13-2014 at 08:08 AM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by narual Quote
If you're seeing anything at all, the raw converter is doing something. It applies a default raw conversion to an image in order to be able to display it at all.
Well yes, that's true. The converter does have to generate a preview for you to look at and manipulate. That happens much more quickly than the "real" conversion that happens when you
put your image into the processing queue and the converter uses all the adjustments you've applied.
03-13-2014, 05:34 AM   #63
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QuoteOriginally posted by arkav Quote
But I doubt that the RAW converter
applies the adjustments in the order you made them. In the case of RAWtherapee, the designers explicitly stated what that order is. I would imagine that ACRaw, Silkypix, PDCU, etc. all do things in a similar way.
Sorry, I may not have been totally clear. I was also agreeing with you on this.
03-16-2014, 10:39 AM   #64
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Just to add to this conversation...
1) I'm usually satisfied w/ JPEGs, but I do switch to RAW+JPG when I'm shooting in low light or getting a shot that I really want the best possible output.
2) Lightroom 4 does not identify the lens used on my K-30 if the pic is JPG but does if it is RAW. This is a Lightroom issue apparently. Perhaps it's fixed w/ LR5. LR4 does recognize the lens when using JPEG on my K-x.
3) I make ample use of the Copy and Paste settings option in LR. If I have a bunch of shots in a similar setting, I fix one, then copy and paste those settings to the others. There may still be some fine tuning needed, but it certainly makes the process go more quickly. (And it's particularly helpful for getting rid of dust spots.)

03-16-2014, 10:41 AM   #65
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QuoteOriginally posted by mgvh Quote
Just to add to this conversation...
1) I'm usually satisfied w/ JPEGs, but I do switch to RAW+JPG when I'm shooting in low light or getting a shot that I really want the best possible output.
2) Lightroom 4 does not identify the lens used on my K-30 if the pic is JPG but does if it is RAW. This is a Lightroom issue apparently. Perhaps it's fixed w/ LR5. LR4 does recognize the lens when using JPEG on my K-x.
3) I make ample use of the Copy and Paste settings option in LR. If I have a bunch of shots in a similar setting, I fix one, then copy and paste those settings to the others. There may still be some fine tuning needed, but it certainly makes the process go more quickly. (And it's particularly helpful for getting rid of dust spots.)
I doubt it's a Lightroom problem as the same issue exists with Aperture.
03-16-2014, 10:54 AM   #66
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QuoteOriginally posted by IchabodCrane Quote
I doubt it's a Lightroom problem as the same issue exists with Aperture.
Using Exiftool, I can see that the lens data is correctly included with the JPG, so I assumed it was w/ the software and not a matter of the K-30 failing to include the metadata.
03-16-2014, 04:15 PM   #67
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QuoteOriginally posted by mgvh Quote
Using Exiftool, I can see that the lens data is correctly included with the JPG
Same fields as with the RAW?


Steve
03-16-2014, 07:18 PM   #68
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QuoteOriginally posted by stevebrot Quote
Same fields as with the RAW?
Steve
Yeah, I've wondered about that. There is both a "Lens Type" field and a "Lens ID" field. When I use a non-Pentax lens (eg, my Sigma 10-20), the Lens Type field will say "Sigma or Tamron Lens". The Lens ID field will specifically say, "Sigma AF 10-20mm F4-5.6 EX DC." Lightroom4 apparently read the Lens Type field, since the EXIF data it displays only says "Sigma or Tamron Lens."

Still, both fields have metadata in them whether I use the K-x or the K-30, but EXIF metadata for the lens when only shooting JPG on the K-30 does not show up.

03-18-2014, 08:28 AM   #69
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QuoteOriginally posted by mgvh Quote
Yeah, I've wondered about that. There is both a "Lens Type" field and a "Lens ID" field. When I use a non-Pentax lens (eg, my Sigma 10-20), the Lens Type field will say "Sigma or Tamron Lens". The Lens ID field will specifically say, "Sigma AF 10-20mm F4-5.6 EX DC." Lightroom4 apparently read the Lens Type field, since the EXIF data it displays only says "Sigma or Tamron Lens."

Still, both fields have metadata in them whether I use the K-x or the K-30, but EXIF metadata for the lens when only shooting JPG on the K-30 does not show up.
Very strange indeed. I am still on LR 3.6 and cannot comment in any way beyond saying that it is very strange.


Steve
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