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03-16-2014, 03:36 PM   #1
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K30 lockup - reproducable

Hi All,

I haven't read all the accounts, but it seems that many people who've experienced lockup with the K30 have done so
randomly. I don't think I've seen anyone say " X+Y+Z results in lockup ".

I discovered a scenario that locks up my K30 every time. ( Note: I'm still running 1.0 firmware )

I was experimenting with reversing a lens on extension tubes. The extension tubes are "auto" type, with all the electrical contacts.
However, the reversing ring I put on the end appears to be a anodized aluminum, so none of the electrical contacts get shorted.

The camera shoots pictures just fine in manual mode. If I flip up the flash, and hit the shutter, the camera locks up and I have
to take the battery out. So there's only a problem when the onboard flash is in use.

If I mount the lens ( M 50 f1.7 ) onto the extension tubes, it works fine.

If I shoot with extention tubes on but no lens mounted, it works fine unless the flash is popped up, in which case, it locks up.

Based on this experience, I suspect that if the mount is dirty and the camera ( temporarily ) loses electrical contact when the
on-board flash is in use, the camera might lock up.

03-16-2014, 06:02 PM   #2
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QuoteOriginally posted by arkav Quote
I'm still running 1.0 firmware
Update to the latest version and see if the problem persists (it likely won't). Also, make sure that your battery is fully charged for optimal flash performance.

Adam
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03-16-2014, 07:26 PM   #3
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QuoteOriginally posted by Adam Quote
Also, make sure that your battery is fully charged for optimal flash performance.
Battery was fully charged, and worked fine whenever I had a lens mounted normally. Will see about updating the FW.
03-16-2014, 08:09 PM   #4
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I have a new K-30 and I use mostly one lens, so dirt is not the case. I was using Pentax batteries and running firmware 1.05 when I had the lockups. I should receive my camera from the repair center (I sent it there due to another issue) this week, so I'll try 1.06 to see how it works.

03-16-2014, 09:56 PM   #5
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Mine has only locked up once and it was in live view shooting multiple long exposure night shots
03-17-2014, 05:25 AM   #6
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Running the FW 1.06 now, working great so far
03-17-2014, 05:30 AM   #7
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QuoteOriginally posted by Lokusart Quote
Running the FW 1.06 now, working great so far
Perhaps someone who is running the latest FW could try taking a shot with no lens mounted and the flash flipped up to see if this causes lockup.
03-17-2014, 05:34 AM   #8
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QuoteOriginally posted by arkav Quote
Perhaps someone who is running the latest FW could try taking a shot with no lens mounted and the flash flipped up to see if this causes lockup.
I don't think that would help, I think is better to test the camera by normal use

03-17-2014, 06:18 AM   #9
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First: Intermittent camera lock-up was an issue with version 1 firmware.

I have the K30 with over 16,000 shutter clicks and I have never experienced a lock-up. The camera came with V1 firmware but I updated it to the latest version before using.

Why would anyone have their flash up and change a lens at the same time? I assume that they probably still had the camera powered up also since they didn't say it was turned off?
I'm sure changing a lens with power on is not recommended in fact there is warning in the camera manual.

Even the if the camera were powered off why does the flash remain up?

Doesn't the camera check for open doors, lens and etc at start up? I think it does so I could see the possibility of either of those circumstance causing a freeze or other problem.
03-17-2014, 06:22 AM   #10
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QuoteOriginally posted by Lokusart Quote
I don't think that would help, I think is better to test the camera by normal use
It would recreate the scenario I've experience with using a reversing ring that is anodized and "looks", to the camera, like there's no lens mounted.
I figured other people wouldn't necessarily have one of these rings, but anyone can take a shot without a lens mounted.

You could argue that using such an anodized reversing ring is not "normal use", but there may be other scenarios where this problem will crop up.

This might also be similar to using some old screw mount lenses that have anodized mounts. I think I read somewhere that people had problems with these
lenses because the anodized mount wouldn't short certain electrical contacts. I don't own any of those lenses so I can't try it myself to see if it can trigger lock-up.

I could modify my reversing ring so that it shorts the right electrical contacts and then I could proceed with putting together my macro rig, but it appears that
there's a bug in the camera FW. It may also affect other scenarios that have not be tried yet.

I was curious to see if the bug had been corrected in FW 1.06.
03-17-2014, 06:37 AM   #11
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QuoteOriginally posted by arkav Quote
I was curious to see if the bug had been corrected in FW 1.06.
Curious what is holding you back from updating yours?
03-17-2014, 06:50 AM   #12
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QuoteOriginally posted by geru2000 Quote
Why would anyone have their flash up and change a lens at the same time? I assume that they probably still had the camera powered up also since they didn't say it was turned off?
I'm sure changing a lens with power on is not recommended in fact there is warning in the camera manual.

Even the if the camera were powered off why does the flash remain up?
Perhaps I wasn't clear.

What I'm trying to do is a fairly common configuration for shooting macro. You mount a lens backwards onto a set of extension tubes. One way to do this is to use a reversing ring, The reversing ring
has a body mount on one side, and filter threads on the other, so you just screw the filter threads of the lens onto the ring, and then mount the ring onto the camera body ( or the extension tubes ).

This configuration isn't great in terms of collecting light, so the flash is helpful - especially if you construct something to channel the light from the flash to the area directly in front of the reversed lens where
you subject will be located. This is what I was doing.

Because the reversing ring is anodized, this configuration ends up looking, to the camera, as though there's no lens mounted.

It is ( IMHO ) a bug because:

a) the configuration works when the flash is not activated. You shouldn't have one behaviour with the flash up and another behaviour with the flash down
b) the response shouldn't be camera lock up. I could see disabling shutter release until a lens is correctly mounted, but not lock-up

It looks like I was incorrect - no lens mounted doesn't recreate the scenario.

I just tried the following:

1) no lens mounted - camera functions ( flash up or down ) - OK
2) reversing ring mounted directly on camera body ( flash up or down ) - OK
3) extension tubes with nothing else ( flash up ) - lock-up
4) extension tubes with nothing else ( flash down ) - OK
5) extension tubes with reversing ring ( flash down ) - OK
6) extension tubes with reversing ring ( flash up ) - lock-up
7) extension tubes with old M series lens mounted normally ( flash up or down ) - OK

So it has something to do with the extension tubes being mounted with no lens ( or a reversing ring that looks like no lens ).

Sorry for the confusion.

Last edited by arkav; 03-17-2014 at 07:26 AM.
03-17-2014, 07:21 AM   #13
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QuoteOriginally posted by arkav Quote
It would recreate the scenario I've experience with using a reversing ring that is anodized and "looks", to the camera, like there's no lens mounted.
I figured other people wouldn't necessarily have one of these rings, but anyone can take a shot without a lens mounted.

You could argue that using such an anodized reversing ring is not "normal use", but there may be other scenarios where this problem will crop up.

This might also be similar to using some old screw mount lenses that have anodized mounts. I think I read somewhere that people had problems with these
lenses because the anodized mount wouldn't short certain electrical contacts. I don't own any of those lenses so I can't try it myself to see if it can trigger lock-up.

I could modify my reversing ring so that it shorts the right electrical contacts and then I could proceed with putting together my macro rig, but it appears that
there's a bug in the camera FW. It may also affect other scenarios that have not be tried yet.

I was curious to see if the bug had been corrected in FW 1.06.

I don't think the ring is the cause of the problem
03-18-2014, 11:30 PM   #14
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I just tried 1.06 with no lens and the flash up and took several shots and went into playback mode, took a couple more - no lockup. I had one lockup when I first bought the camera with 1.0, and that was when I was playing around with old lenses and popup flash also hot shoe flash, but I can't remember exactly what combination.
03-19-2014, 06:17 AM   #15
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QuoteOriginally posted by SteveB Quote
I just tried 1.06 with no lens and the flash up and took several shots and went into playback mode, took a couple more - no lockup. I had one lockup when I first bought the camera with 1.0, and that was when I was playing around with old lenses and popup flash also hot shoe flash, but I can't remember exactly what combination.
Thanks SteveB. As mentioned in one of my follow ups, I was wrong in my original post. I don't get lock up with no lens. I get lock up when there's no lens on the extension tubes ( or an anodized reversing ring, which has the same effect
as no lens ). I suspect that the problem is that the camera 'sees' a lens mounted mechanically ( the tubes have the correct mechanical couplings ), but it doesn't like the open electrical contacts.

If you were playing around with old lenses, maybe you mounted one of the old lenses that has an anodized base. This might give the same result in that the body sees a lens mounted mechanically but with open electrical contacts.
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