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07-27-2014, 04:26 AM   #46
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QuoteOriginally posted by stevebrot Quote
I agree that it is a catchy name and also believe that many people feel that this is an unresolved issue dating back several years through multiple models.
I am not among those many people, simply because evidence does not show it.

QuoteOriginally posted by stevebrot Quote
I don't know what a good alternative name might be, but if I interpret the video correctly, your symptom is a total system hang with the mirror in the up position.
Indeed, again, pity that camera does not detect it and offers some diagnostic.

QuoteOriginally posted by stevebrot Quote
The original K-5 mirror flop is described in this thread from 2011:

https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/115-pentax-k-5/144309-k-5-bug-shutter-going-off-itself.html

It was caused by a bad batch of system boards and was addressed by warranty replacement of the defective board on effected cameras. Your problem, though it has somewhat different symptoms, may have a similar cause (bad electronics somewhere). It is hard to say.
The service report says that part replaced is:
Diaphragm control block [NM D13-301]

Googling for it I do not find any other K50 reference,
but find K30 reference to French forum where the problem was not mirror flopping, but underexposure:
K30 - Retour SAV suite photos sombres

QuoteOriginally posted by stevebrot Quote
It is my feeling that this kind of problem is not a generic weak point across is the entire Pentax line.
I agree, but when one's brand new camera malfunctions with such endemic issue, this is very little consolation.

QuoteOriginally posted by stevebrot Quote
In any case, I would hope that Pentax is able to provide a warranty solution that works for you and the other users having this problem.
Indeed, my camera was repaired under warranty and I shot 1500 photo's since then

QuoteOriginally posted by stevebrot Quote
Steve

* Some may point out the "crazy mirror" problem on the K-3 as being "more of the same". The symptoms are different, though, and the people who originally reported it (most were also K-5 owners) have generally resisted calling it mirror flop.
I see your point of collapsing too many different issues under the same name,
and again, I would hope Pentax builds in some self-diagnostic with distinct error codes to help everybody ...

Tx
Rgds
Fila


Last edited by Fila; 07-27-2014 at 09:15 AM.
08-24-2014, 08:10 PM - 1 Like   #47
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QuoteOriginally posted by Fila Quote
The service report says that part replaced is: Diaphragm control block [NM D13-301]
I've said this numerous times before, and yet it seems once again that the mirror flop issue in the less expensive Pentax DSLR cameras (without independent mirror and aperture motors as in the K-7, K-5, and K-3) is due to a faulty aperture (diaphragm) control mechanism.
QuoteOriginally posted by DragonLord Quote
This is being posted in the general DSLR discussion forum as this relates to both the K-5 and K-r.

I was messing around with the mirror and aperture control mechanisms of my K-r (it's not broken), and I found some interesting behavior which seems to be closely related to the mirror flop issue. Here are the relevant steps:
  1. With no lens mounted, start Live View.
  2. While the camera is in Live View, remove the battery. The shutter will close but the mirror and aperture lever will remain in the up position.
  3. Push and hold the aperture lever in the down position.
  4. Reinsert the battery and turn on the camera while holding the aperture lever in the down position. The camera will cycle the mirror and shutter in an attempt to reset the mirror/shutter/aperture mechanism whenever a button or other control is actuated, for as long as the aperture lever is held down. When the status display is shown in manual exposure mode, and a button (such as the Green button) is held down while the aperture lever is held down, the seconds field will read 9999". When you attempt to start Live View, the camera will cycle the mirror and shutter about 20 times before the Live View screen appears, but the Live View feed is blank, and the seconds field will read 9999.
  5. When you take your finger off the aperture lever, and the camera is not in Live View, the camera recovers once you actuate any control, and will shoot normally. In Live View, the mirror/shutter/aperture mechanism resets when you do so, but the camera will cease to function properly until you remove and reinsert the battery.
If the mirror is held up while the aperture lever is held down, you'll notice that the camera keeps cycling the shutter (it'll move up and down whenever you actuate a control or do so continuously when in Live View).

I was able to replicate mirror overrun behavior on a camera that is functioning normally by holding the aperture lever in the down position. This experiment proves that the real cause of the mirror flop issue is a jammed aperture control lever.

My camera wasn't damaged when I did this and continues to function normally after the lens was put back on the camera, but I'm not responsible for any damage this procedure may cause to your equipment.

Here's a previous post I've made regarding this issue:

QuoteOriginally posted by DragonLord Quote
At 2:35 and 2:46 in the video, notice that the aperture control lever at the left side of the mount is not moving when the shutter/mirror cycles. On my K-r, this lever always moves up whenever the mirror goes up. This corresponds to the CRIS replacement of the aperture control unit on a K-5 with this problem; see post #39 of K-5 bug - Shutter going off by itself:

QuoteOriginally posted by mfutrell Quote
After 2 months a CRIS for this exact problem mine supposedly is shipping back today. They said thet they did the following

REPLACED APERTURE CONTROL UNIT
REPLACED APERTURE CONTROL CONTACT PAD AND BRUSHES

We will see if it is fixed this time....
It appears that the aperture control assembly has failed on your K-r. Try pushing up the aperture control lever in the left side of the lens mount. If this doesn't help, your camera is defective and needs to be repaired or replaced.
The more expensive cameras, including the K-3, have dedicated motors for the aperture diaphragm, shutter, and mirror, so this might not be the cause of the K-3 mirror flop issues (in one case, however, a faulty aperture control mechanism was replaced in a mirror-flopping K-5). However, I am certain that the issue you had with your K-50 was caused by a faulty aperture control mechanism.

--DragonLord

Last edited by bwDraco; 08-24-2014 at 08:31 PM.
08-25-2014, 08:05 PM   #48
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This is exactly what happened to my k-50 over the weekend. I had to pull the battery to shut it off. I had noticed small issues the previous two days. Things like the shutter and aperture wheels locking. Turning it off and back on seemed to reset things. Then suddenly everything locked up and the viewfinder went dark even when off. Pushing almost any button would cause the mirror to click up and down. After several tries to start after removing the battery or changing lenses I let it set without a battery for several hours.

When I tried again the menu was working. I had noticed a piece of lint on the viewfinder screen about the time things started acting up. So while the menu was working, but the viewfinder was still dark, I used the menu to put the mirror up and used my rocket blower to blast the inside. Then when I turned off the camera and put a lens on everything was working again. I went out the next morning and took several hundred wildlife shots and everything is working great. Maybe forcing the mirror up for cleaning cycles some items or maybe it was just coincidence. It is unnerving though. I want to call for warranty right away but also would like to have the camera for a couple of football games the next two weeks as I have no backup camera.

I work with computer so understand that software can screw up and make things freeze. But I wonder if it is a hardware issue triggering the problems also.

QuoteOriginally posted by GerryL Quote
HEELLLLPPPP! My K50 is doing exactly the same thing as in the video!
This just happened today after I took my K50 out of the bag to take a photo after one week!

---------- Post added 07-01-2014 at 06:18 PM ----------

First thing I noticed when I turned it on was the mirror flop, then when I looked into the viewfinder, it was dark (not totally dark) and it had a had time focusing.
I tried turning it on, then off..same thing.
After a while, it won't turn off anymore and I had to take out the battery to turn it off.
I thought this thing never affected K50's!??
09-06-2014, 08:29 PM   #49
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I've been having this issue with my K-50 as well. I have contacted Pentax and they provided instructions on how and where to ship, but did not say what to include. Do I just send them the bare camera body or should I include the lenses and all of the accessories along with the original box?

09-07-2014, 12:18 PM   #50
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Original Poster
QuoteOriginally posted by DragonLord Quote
I've said this numerous times before, and yet it seems once again that the mirror flop issue in the less expensive Pentax DSLR cameras (without independent mirror and aperture motors as in the K-7, K-5, and K-3) is due to a faulty aperture (diaphragm) control mechanism.

However, I am certain that the issue you had with your K-50 was caused by a faulty aperture control mechanism.
Thanks, in my case indeed it seems fixed

QuoteOriginally posted by George K Quote
Do I just send them the bare camera body or should I include the lenses and all of the accessories along with the original box?
I had to send only bare body (no batteries).
Good luck
Tx
Rdgs
Fila
09-07-2014, 06:45 PM   #51
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QuoteOriginally posted by TedW Quote
But I wonder if it is a hardware issue triggering the problems also.
If your camera is suffering from the same malady as the others on this thread, it is definitely a hardware problem that is cured by a trip to the warranty service station.


Steve
09-08-2014, 09:45 AM   #52
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I would like to add some observations. My K-50 recently had the mirror issue happen while on a trip to the mountains of Colorado. What I found was that it seemed to only happen when I was using the included 18-55 kit lens. If I pulled the battery and swapped to my A series 24mm lens or my DL 50-200 lens, the issue would not happen. Switch back to the 18-55 kit lens and within three shots, the mirror would not return to normal position and the camera software would freeze up. This seems to indicate it is an issue with the lens. I am sending camera and lens to Precision for warranty repair. Will post back when I hear something from them.
09-08-2014, 10:04 AM   #53
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QuoteOriginally posted by jg45 Quote
Switch back to the 18-55 kit lens and within three shots, the mirror would not return to normal position and the camera software would freeze up.
This would be make sense. The issue described on this thread is fixed by servicing/replacing the aperture control components. Lenses without the data contact on the mount (all manual focus glass) are managed differently in regards to the exposure sequence than those having that feature. It has to do with the time it takes to cycle the aperture. Without the data contact, the camera defaults to a slower fail-safe shutter cycle. That is why there are frequent questions regarding what series glass was mounted when a shutter/mirror/aperture issue is reported.


Steve

09-08-2014, 11:10 AM   #54
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QuoteOriginally posted by stevebrot Quote
This would be make sense. The issue described on this thread is fixed by servicing/replacing the aperture control components. Lenses without the data contact on the mount (all manual focus glass) are managed differently in regards to the exposure sequence than those having that feature. It has to do with the time it takes to cycle the aperture. Without the data contact, the camera defaults to a slower fail-safe shutter cycle. That is why there are frequent questions regarding what series glass was mounted when a shutter/mirror/aperture issue is reported.


Steve
What I found interesting was that the DA 50-200 lens that does have the data contacts does not exhibit the same problem.
09-09-2014, 06:57 AM   #55
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I must say, I'm very aprehensive now to order a K50 in a few months! The reason I wanted the K50, is my new (bought last Nov) Panasonic has had to be sent back for service. I'm now without a camera. I certainly do not want to go thru the same thing with a new K50!

I know anything can have a problem, but this thread definitely shows that this particular problem is happening with the K50 more often than what I would like, with a brand new camera.

I'm open to suggestions, the K50 package is all I can afford.
09-09-2014, 12:06 PM   #56
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QuoteOriginally posted by csa Quote
I must say, I'm very aprehensive now to order a K50 in a few months!
Don't be apprehensive. Although this issue is real, it is not a pervasive problem. I may be wrong, but it is my impression that the K-30/K-50 have a very low rate of reported issues on this site.

For a bit of perspective, I am a Consumer Reports subscriber and they have not flagged the K-50 or any other digital camera for quality issues. They do keep poll their members in regards to the defective cameras and publish that data. Unfortunately, they don't have enough recent information from Pentax owners to include that brand on the list. For SLR cameras the most current survey results are below:
  • Canon: 4%
  • Sony: 4%
  • Nikon: 6%
This is somewhat worse than in past years when no brand was higher than 5% and Pentax was on the list at 3% with Olympus being the lowest at 2%. For non-SLRs, Panasonic (your current camera) is currently at 5%.

I have to admit that these numbers make me wince a little. 5% requiring repair or having serious problems means that one out of twenty people walking out of Costco or Best Buy with a new dSLR purchase are going to have a defect.* Does that mean that all camera buyers are doomed! Nope, though it does mean that purchase of an extended warranty might be a wise thing regardless of brand purchased. The Pentax two-year extension is a particularly good deal at $19.95 USD.**


Steve

* For comparison, laptop computers requiring warranty service is between 8% (Apple) and 16% (Asus). My Lenovo ($$) went in for service at about six months.

** Need not be purchased with the camera or even from the same store. Pentax requests that it be purchased within 30 days of the camera.
09-09-2014, 01:34 PM   #57
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Thanks Steve; although percentages are nice, presently going thru having to send a camera less than a year old in for repair, really makes me hesitate when I read about this problem with the K50 owners posting here. Sure they will be repaired free of charge under warranty, however the hassle of sending it in for repair, then being without your dream camera for who knows how long, does make me hesitate.
09-09-2014, 02:38 PM   #58
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Even though I added to this list because my camera locked up once a few weeks ago I wouldn't hesitate to buy. I have many hours in since that afternoon crash and have not had a glitch. I'm pretty convinced it was just a software issue similar to what Windows does to me at work every week. Taking the battery out for several hours seemed to have let the camera fully discharge and reboot fresh.

I also have slipped up in changing lenses with the power on but in sleep mode. Coming from the old film cameras I seem to forget to turn it off and as I was doing a lot of lens changes during those days leading up to the problem I wonder if that didn't contribute. I try to be much more diligent about remember to switch things off before changing lens. On the other hand it could have just been coincidence. The other thought was that I went from about 600' elevation to 6,500' elevation in a short time. That shouldn't make a difference but who knows for sure.
09-09-2014, 02:49 PM   #59
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Thanks Ted, that does make me feel a little better!
09-09-2014, 02:53 PM   #60
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I've slipped up myself on turning it off before changing lenses but so far no flopping on mine. You guys are scaring me...I got mine in Oct. and it's been great. It does eat aa batteries like M&Ms though. I'm using re-chargeable energizers but probably should switch to eneloops. When the batteries get low, I start loosing some of its speed and it'll even deny some of it's features until it finally bonks. Good luck with the service guys and keep us posted. Thanks.
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