OMG The K-50 sucks for moon shots!

bobpur · 10-08-2014, 10:15 AM

Use SPOT exposure right on the center of the Moon then the live view will be Ok, done it many times with different cameras.
If you try to expose wider it picks up the black that is why the Moon blows out, not a camera problem...

richandfleur · 10-08-2014, 10:50 AM

Spot is sounding good Steve.

Mistlefoot · 10-08-2014, 11:47 AM

I hate to say this, but the moon is out every night. It makes no sense to learn how to shoot the moon during a unique event. I know this contributes little to the actual issue........but when you encounter challenges they are far more frustrating when time is sensitive....

Steve.Ledger · 10-08-2014, 12:16 PM

Thanks for all the suggestion on How to Shoot The Moon. That was not the purpose of this thread, it was to describe how BAD the K-50 is for using Live View for such an object, heck the zoom focus which is great in daylight conditions is a waste of an idea in this scenario too. I know how to shoot the moon.

Liveview on the K-7 showed exactly the exposure you were getting from your manual settings. This has changed in newer Pentax DLSRs, it's a backwards step and it's useless.
I kind'a understood it for the mirrorless cams, but I don't for DSLRs.
Switching to video was even worse actually.
Of course Spot metering is the best choice for Moon shots. I have shot the moon before (on the K-7) so knew how do do it.
Yes I use manual exposure (thought I mentioned this in my OP?)

I'm just really disappointed that Live view is not LIVE view. It's crippled. Live view MUST be WYSIWYG. It could/should be a toggle, LVN (Natural) LVE (Enhanced).
I cannot believe anyone would find this acceptable.
I regret selling the K-7.
If the K-5II retains WYSIWYG Live view then I may just sell the K-50 and buy a K-5II.

Originally posted by Mistlefoot

I hate to say this, but the moon is out every night. It makes no sense to learn how to shoot the moon during a unique event. I know this contributes little to the actual issue........but when you encounter challenges they are far more frustrating when time is sensitive....

Thanks for the pearl of wisdom, but I was preparing BEFORE the event and actually posted this thread BEFORE the event.
But again, this thread was not about HOW, it was to describe my disappointment with the K-50.

richandfleur · 10-08-2014, 12:22 PM

Pentax since Ricoh has made some pretty interesting decisions on their software, which results in a step backwards.
No real shake reduction in video mode anymore for example.
Must say that k-5iis is looking petty tempting as the last of the sold pentax software...

Steve.Ledger · 10-08-2014, 12:46 PM

Movie SR was introduced before RICOH.
For example the original Q is labeled 'HOYA Corporation'

yygomez · 10-08-2014, 01:12 PM

Originally posted by Steve.Ledger

Thanks for all the suggestion on How to Shoot The Moon. That was not the purpose of this thread, it was to describe how BAD the K-50 is for using Live View for such an object, heck the zoom focus which is great in daylight conditions is a waste of an idea in this scenario too. I know how to shoot the moon.

Liveview on the K-7 showed exactly the exposure you were getting from your manual settings. This has changed in newer Pentax DLSRs, it's a backwards step and it's useless.
I kind'a understood it for the mirrorless cams, but I don't for DSLRs.
Switching to video was even worse actually.
Of course Spot metering is the best choice for Moon shots. I have shot the moon before (on the K-7) so knew how do do it.
Yes I use manual exposure (thought I mentioned this in my OP?)

I'm just really disappointed that Live view is not LIVE view. It's crippled. Live view MUST be WYSIWYG. It could/should be a toggle, LVN (Natural) LVE (Enhanced).
I cannot believe anyone would find this acceptable.
I regret selling the K-7.
If the K-5II retains WYSIWYG Live view then I may just sell the K-50 and buy a K-5II.

Thanks for the pearl of wisdom, but I was preparing BEFORE the event and actually posted this thread BEFORE the event.
But again, this thread was not about HOW, it was to describe my disappointment with the K-50.

Totally agree, I posted before, I have the same problem with my K5IIs and night shots with the LV gain trying to boost the darks

Steve.Ledger · 10-08-2014, 01:23 PM

Originally posted by yygomez

Totally agree, I posted before, I have the same problem with my K5IIs and night shots with the LV gain trying to boost the darks

Bugger!! So they introduced this silliness after the K-5??

Just to prove my point, I was able to get a shot of the moon this morning at dawn as the moon sunk to the west.
There was enough light in the sky by then, so the LV gain was not a problem. (But it should NOT be a problem at ANY time! I'm truly disappointed.)

**othar** · 10-08-2014, 02:03 PM

I have to admit that what you see in LV has nothing to do with how the picture will look (at least not in the night).
But with spot metering on and positioning the moon in the centre I was able to see structures on the moon with LV and I could manually focus by using the display (I used a 200mm lens)

richandfleur · 10-08-2014, 02:12 PM

One of the positives mentioned of the Sony A6000 (an assume others in that family line) is that they can show the effect of exposure changes, prior to taking the shot. What I read from this is that it behaves the way you're suggesting Steve, but I'd have to investigate it a bit more. With no gain control on the Pentax models (this is not limited to just the K-30/50 series by the way) this sort of situation is always going to be an issue, where you're interested in something that's outside the metering of the entire overall scene.

I'd like to confirm if spot metering has any influence on the LV display. It might do, but it just as easily might be that the screen does it's own metering, so I'd like to confirm it for the purposes of completeness on this thread.

**othar** · 10-08-2014, 02:17 PM

Originally posted by richandfleur

I'd like to confirm if spot metering has any influence on the LV display. It might do, but it just as easily might be that the screen does it's own metering, so I'd like to confirm it for the purposes of completeness on this thread.

it has an effect, without spot metering the moon was a spot of light with no structure to be seen. By using spot metering I could see structures on the moon.

Steve.Ledger · 10-08-2014, 02:17 PM

Originally posted by othar

I have to admit that what you see in LV has nothing to do with how the picture will look (at least not in the night).

Which is WRONG. It should and it could with better/sensible firmware. It did with the K-7. I've said this a few times.

Originally posted by othar

But with spot metering on and positioning the moon in the centre I was able to see structures on the moon with LV and I could manually focus by using the display (I used a 200mm lens)

Not with the K-50.

---------- Post added 10-09-14 at 07:20 AM ----------

Originally posted by othar

it has an effect, without spot metering the moon was a spot of light with no structure to be seen. By using spot metering I could see structures on the moon.

Not with the K-50 - not in a dark sky where the only bright object is the moon.

---------- Post added 10-09-14 at 07:22 AM ----------

Originally posted by richandfleur

(this is not limited to just the K-30/50 series by the way)

Seems like all after the K-7 and K-5 are afflicted with this new LV auto gain 'feature'

**othar** · 10-08-2014, 02:26 PM

Originally posted by Steve.Ledger

Which is WRONG. It should and it could with better/sensible firmware. It did with the K-7. I've said this a few times.

It should and it could - yes, but it doesn't so I think my statement was correct.

edit: I think I missunderstood your sentence at first - sry

Originally posted by Steve.Ledger

Not with the K-50.

possible I used the K3

Steve.Ledger · 10-08-2014, 02:38 PM

Apparently with Nikon DSLR bodies there is an EPV option. The EPV feature typically disables auto-gain and simulates the expected exposure result with the current settings.
See ► Capture (live view)

Obviously with tethered shooting you simply must see the 'expected exposure result' on screen.
This needs to be fixed with Pentax DSLRs...!

---------- Post added 10-09-14 at 08:05 AM ----------

Originally posted by Oldbayrunner

the only way to accurately measure your live view exposure or any camera exposure is to use the histogram and/or EV meter scale no matter what AE metering you use then lock the exposure if you want to change the composition.

Not sure which camera you are using, but *all my Pentax camera's histograms in Live view show the scene levels and not the camera exposure settings.
Also, locking exposure when in live view does not affect the LV auto gain. IOW: Nothing you can set will prevent the auto gain from showing you a brighter view rather than actually simulating the exposure settings.

*K-50/K-01/MX-1/Q

richandfleur · 10-08-2014, 03:51 PM

A quick check and other's handle this as an option on live view from auto to exposure simulation.
Software wise Pentax could offer this, but they don't.

10-08-2014, 12:46 PM	#21
Steve.Ledger Veteran Member Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: Far North Qld Posts: 3,301 Original Poster	Movie SR was introduced before RICOH. For example the original Q is labeled 'HOYA Corporation' Last edited by Steve.Ledger; 10-08-2014 at 02:59 PM.

10-08-2014, 02:38 PM	#29
Steve.Ledger Veteran Member Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: Far North Qld Posts: 3,301 Original Poster	Apparently with Nikon DSLR bodies there is an EPV option. The EPV feature typically disables auto-gain and simulates the expected exposure result with the current settings. See ► Capture (live view) Obviously with tethered shooting you simply must see the 'expected exposure result' on screen. This needs to be fixed with Pentax DSLRs...! ---------- Post added 10-09-14 at 08:05 AM ---------- Originally posted by Oldbayrunner the only way to accurately measure your live view exposure or any camera exposure is to use the histogram and/or EV meter scale no matter what AE metering you use then lock the exposure if you want to change the composition. Not sure which camera you are using, but all my Pentax camera's histograms in Live view show the scene levels and not the camera exposure settings. Also, locking exposure when in live view does not affect the LV auto gain. IOW: Nothing you can set will prevent the auto gain from showing you a brighter view rather than actually simulating the exposure settings. K-50/K-01/MX-1/Q Last edited by Steve.Ledger; 10-08-2014 at 04:42 PM.

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10-08-2014, 10:15 AM	#16
bobpur Inactive Account Join Date: Jul 2010 Photos: Gallery Posts: 328	Use SPOT exposure right on the center of the Moon then the live view will be Ok, done it many times with different cameras. If you try to expose wider it picks up the black that is why the Moon blows out, not a camera problem...

10-08-2014, 10:50 AM	#17
richandfleur Pentaxian Join Date: Mar 2014 Location: Palmerston North, New Zealand Photos: Albums Posts: 1,788	Spot is sounding good Steve.

10-08-2014, 11:47 AM	#18
Mistlefoot Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2013 Location: Nanaimo, British Columbia Photos: Albums Posts: 328	I hate to say this, but the moon is out every night. It makes no sense to learn how to shoot the moon during a unique event. I know this contributes little to the actual issue........but when you encounter challenges they are far more frustrating when time is sensitive....

10-08-2014, 12:16 PM	#19
Steve.Ledger Veteran Member Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: Far North Qld Posts: 3,301 Original Poster	Thanks for all the suggestion on How to Shoot The Moon. That was not the purpose of this thread, it was to describe how BAD the K-50 is for using Live View for such an object, heck the zoom focus which is great in daylight conditions is a waste of an idea in this scenario too. I know how to shoot the moon. Liveview on the K-7 showed exactly the exposure you were getting from your manual settings. This has changed in newer Pentax DLSRs, it's a backwards step and it's useless. I kind'a understood it for the mirrorless cams, but I don't for DSLRs. Switching to video was even worse actually. Of course Spot metering is the best choice for Moon shots. I have shot the moon before (on the K-7) so knew how do do it. Yes I use manual exposure (thought I mentioned this in my OP?) I'm just really disappointed that Live view is not LIVE view. It's crippled. Live view MUST be WYSIWYG. It could/should be a toggle, LVN (Natural) LVE (Enhanced). I cannot believe anyone would find this acceptable. I regret selling the K-7. If the K-5II retains WYSIWYG Live view then I may just sell the K-50 and buy a K-5II. Originally posted by Mistlefoot I hate to say this, but the moon is out every night. It makes no sense to learn how to shoot the moon during a unique event. I know this contributes little to the actual issue........but when you encounter challenges they are far more frustrating when time is sensitive.... Thanks for the pearl of wisdom, but I was preparing BEFORE the event and actually posted this thread BEFORE the event. But again, this thread was not about HOW, it was to describe my disappointment with the K-50.

10-08-2014, 12:22 PM	#20
richandfleur Pentaxian Join Date: Mar 2014 Location: Palmerston North, New Zealand Photos: Albums Posts: 1,788	Pentax since Ricoh has made some pretty interesting decisions on their software, which results in a step backwards. No real shake reduction in video mode anymore for example. Must say that k-5iis is looking petty tempting as the last of the sold pentax software...

10-08-2014, 01:12 PM	#22
yygomez Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: Surfside,FL Photos: Gallery Posts: 155	Originally posted by Steve.Ledger Thanks for all the suggestion on How to Shoot The Moon. That was not the purpose of this thread, it was to describe how BAD the K-50 is for using Live View for such an object, heck the zoom focus which is great in daylight conditions is a waste of an idea in this scenario too. I know how to shoot the moon. Liveview on the K-7 showed exactly the exposure you were getting from your manual settings. This has changed in newer Pentax DLSRs, it's a backwards step and it's useless. I kind'a understood it for the mirrorless cams, but I don't for DSLRs. Switching to video was even worse actually. Of course Spot metering is the best choice for Moon shots. I have shot the moon before (on the K-7) so knew how do do it. Yes I use manual exposure (thought I mentioned this in my OP?) I'm just really disappointed that Live view is not LIVE view. It's crippled. Live view MUST be WYSIWYG. It could/should be a toggle, LVN (Natural) LVE (Enhanced). I cannot believe anyone would find this acceptable. I regret selling the K-7. If the K-5II retains WYSIWYG Live view then I may just sell the K-50 and buy a K-5II. Thanks for the pearl of wisdom, but I was preparing BEFORE the event and actually posted this thread BEFORE the event. But again, this thread was not about HOW, it was to describe my disappointment with the K-50. Totally agree, I posted before, I have the same problem with my K5IIs and night shots with the LV gain trying to boost the darks

10-08-2014, 01:23 PM	#23
Steve.Ledger Veteran Member Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: Far North Qld Posts: 3,301 Original Poster	Originally posted by yygomez Totally agree, I posted before, I have the same problem with my K5IIs and night shots with the LV gain trying to boost the darks Bugger!! So they introduced this silliness after the K-5?? Just to prove my point, I was able to get a shot of the moon this morning at dawn as the moon sunk to the west. There was enough light in the sky by then, so the LV gain was not a problem. (But it should NOT be a problem at ANY time! I'm truly disappointed.)

10-08-2014, 02:03 PM	#24
othar Site Supporter Join Date: May 2014 Location: Linz Photos: Albums Posts: 3,098	I have to admit that what you see in LV has nothing to do with how the picture will look (at least not in the night). But with spot metering on and positioning the moon in the centre I was able to see structures on the moon with LV and I could manually focus by using the display (I used a 200mm lens)

10-08-2014, 02:12 PM	#25
richandfleur Pentaxian Join Date: Mar 2014 Location: Palmerston North, New Zealand Photos: Albums Posts: 1,788	One of the positives mentioned of the Sony A6000 (an assume others in that family line) is that they can show the effect of exposure changes, prior to taking the shot. What I read from this is that it behaves the way you're suggesting Steve, but I'd have to investigate it a bit more. With no gain control on the Pentax models (this is not limited to just the K-30/50 series by the way) this sort of situation is always going to be an issue, where you're interested in something that's outside the metering of the entire overall scene. I'd like to confirm if spot metering has any influence on the LV display. It might do, but it just as easily might be that the screen does it's own metering, so I'd like to confirm it for the purposes of completeness on this thread.

10-08-2014, 02:17 PM	#26
othar Site Supporter Join Date: May 2014 Location: Linz Photos: Albums Posts: 3,098	Originally posted by richandfleur I'd like to confirm if spot metering has any influence on the LV display. It might do, but it just as easily might be that the screen does it's own metering, so I'd like to confirm it for the purposes of completeness on this thread. it has an effect, without spot metering the moon was a spot of light with no structure to be seen. By using spot metering I could see structures on the moon.

10-08-2014, 02:17 PM	#27
Steve.Ledger Veteran Member Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: Far North Qld Posts: 3,301 Original Poster	Originally posted by othar I have to admit that what you see in LV has nothing to do with how the picture will look (at least not in the night). Which is WRONG. It should and it could with better/sensible firmware. It did with the K-7. I've said this a few times. Originally posted by othar But with spot metering on and positioning the moon in the centre I was able to see structures on the moon with LV and I could manually focus by using the display (I used a 200mm lens) Not with the K-50. ---------- Post added 10-09-14 at 07:20 AM ---------- Originally posted by othar it has an effect, without spot metering the moon was a spot of light with no structure to be seen. By using spot metering I could see structures on the moon. Not with the K-50 - not in a dark sky where the only bright object is the moon. ---------- Post added 10-09-14 at 07:22 AM ---------- Originally posted by richandfleur (this is not limited to just the K-30/50 series by the way) Seems like all after the K-7 and K-5 are afflicted with this new LV auto gain 'feature'

10-08-2014, 02:26 PM	#28
othar Site Supporter Join Date: May 2014 Location: Linz Photos: Albums Posts: 3,098	Originally posted by Steve.Ledger Which is WRONG. It should and it could with better/sensible firmware. It did with the K-7. I've said this a few times. It should and it could - yes, but it doesn't so I think my statement was correct. edit: I think I missunderstood your sentence at first - sry Originally posted by Steve.Ledger Not with the K-50. possible I used the K3

10-08-2014, 03:51 PM	#30
richandfleur Pentaxian Join Date: Mar 2014 Location: Palmerston North, New Zealand Photos: Albums Posts: 1,788	A quick check and other's handle this as an option on live view from auto to exposure simulation. Software wise Pentax could offer this, but they don't.