Forgot Password
Pentax Camera Forums Home
 

Reply
Show Printable Version Search this Thread
10-09-2014, 04:16 AM   #16
Site Supporter
altopiet's Avatar

Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: The Great Karoo, South Africa
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 1,915
QuoteOriginally posted by JimJohnson Quote
But your message does nothing to help. Please try to give something that advances knowledge or skill when posting.
To be fair, the OP do not really seem to be asking for any help, just venting some frustration about Ricoh and Pentax...and Pentax bashing is becoming quit common around here....

EDIT: Also, I can't seem to recall any forum rules he might have broken with his post....surely the mods would've attended to the matter if there were any problems...

10-09-2014, 08:56 AM   #17
Junior Member




Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Maine
Posts: 28
Original Poster
Per usual when posting anything about any subject there are a few that will always attack the person. (Didn't do enough research, Don't know how to use the camera, Don't understand flash photography, yada yada yada).
Either you agree or you don't just as simple as that. If the flashing numbers on the status screen are annoying or not. Pentax could have simply had them turn color and not flash like you are in a cheap motel with no shades with a neon flashing light right out side of your window, lighting up the room like someone turning the light switch on and off all night. I can get rid of the flashing neon annoying numbers by reprogramming the RAW/FX button to turn the status screen off.. Another comment about that - Pentax could have had that same feature (reprogramming the RAW/FX button) to work like a selection switch in that instead of having to hold it in - one push would turn off the status screen and another push of the same button would turn on the status screen. I also think that Pentax could have had source code default with all modes to something like 1/60, f4.0, 400iso. Not every situation wants only a fill flash. Again a matter of agree or disagree not an opportunity to flame me. FYI - I do also have an external flash capable of 1/2000 and even in manual mode of both the camera and flash it is not able to shoot faster than 1/180... A camera capable of 51,200 iso and shutter speeds of 1/6000 and frame rates of 6 fps - I hardly think it is hardware restricted. Light is light regardless of natural or otherwise... So if natural light (highly lit room with light bulbs or daylight) will permit faster shutter speeds - adequate light from a flash should also allow for faster shutter speeds... Now again, this is do you agree or disagree and not your golden opportunity to flame me. And even if I were a complete dummy, just remember you can learn a lot from a dummy - just look what they did for the automobile...

---------- Post added 10-09-14 at 12:15 PM ----------

For those that feel I did not do my home work - I selected the Pentax K-50 for the following reasons. I wanted in camera stabilization (Pentax or Sony - Nikon and Canon out). I wanted an APS size sensor with low megapixels that were large. Actually 8-10 megapixels would have been fine (which means the size of each pixel would be even larger). If you don't know about the megapixel myth then google it. If you take a Nikon D810 36 megapixel (full size sensor) and only use part of the sensor or crop the sensor to APS size then you have 16 megapixels because the size of the pixel in the D810 (Over $3,000 camera) is 23.8 um(squared). The size of the pixel in the K50 is 22.9 um(squared). Walla! Many other features of the K-50 interested me such as being able to control the amount of noise processing for each level of ISO - from off, low, medium, high processing. So in reality if you want to retain detail (at the expense of noise) at 51,200 ISO you can turn off any noise processing or have as little or as much as you want. The list goes on and on, but yes I did my research and knew about the 1/180 (a compromise on my end and not a deal breaker) - be nice if Pentax would un-throttle it though. The only surprise I got was the neon flashing irritating large numbers on the status screen. Pentax turn the flashing off - make it alien green, pink anything but flashing... Having the screen below your eye is bothersome enough without flashing too...
10-09-2014, 09:33 AM   #18
Pentaxian
esrandall's Avatar

Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: Sumner, WA
Photos: Albums
Posts: 964
First off, nothing I said was flaming, so I feel fine about that. Secondly, when you post a rant like that, you can't expect people to just "agree" or "disagree" -- especially if they didn't know that's the reply you were seeking (at least I think that's what you're trying to say in your reply.) While I don't agree with people jumping somebody's ass saying "you should have done your research" or whatever, I think it's totally legit for them to mention that -- and then ask for more information, in case it's a resolvable issue. Some of the people here went for that angle, and unless you're totally put off bu some of the negative responses, there is a good knowledge-base here to leverage for help or information. Or, if you were really just seeking an "agree" or "disagree", then maybe make it a poll, and request that there be no responses. I know if it were me with a similar post, it wouldn't have been just to vent -- it would have been to seek information based off similar experience, so maybe I could make the bad man go away, and enjoy my new camera more. But we're all different, looking for different things.
10-09-2014, 09:42 AM   #19
Senior Member




Join Date: Oct 2013
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 264
QuoteOriginally posted by Buckaroo50 Quote
FYI - I do also have an external flash capable of 1/2000 and even in manual mode of both the camera and flash it is not able to shoot faster than 1/180... A camera capable of 51,200 iso and shutter speeds of 1/6000 and frame rates of 6 fps - I hardly think it is hardware restricted. Light is light regardless of natural or otherwise... So if natural light (highly lit room with light bulbs or daylight) will permit faster shutter speeds - adequate light from a flash should also allow for faster shutter speeds...
It is not that simple. You should read a good article on how flash sync works -- but since I don't have a link to one handy at the moment, let me try explaining:

The shutter mechanism has two sliding curtains that both travel the same direction across the image, one to open (leading curtain) and one to close (rear curtain) -- but since this requires actual moving parts, it does not happen instantaneously. At lower shutter speeds this doesn't matter and you have this easy sequence of events: 1) the shutter opens; 2) it stays open exposing the entire frame for a while (standard flash will fire right at the beginning of this step); 3) the shutter closes.

But at speeds of higher than 1/180" (on current Pentax cameras), this won't do -- if the rear curtain waited until the leading curtain was done, that is until the entire frame was exposed, then each part of the frame would be exposed too long; so it needs to start while the leading curtain is still in motion. In such cases, there is never any instant in time when the entire frame is exposed at once. What you have instead is a slit of exposure "traveling" across the frame; the higher the shutter speed, the narrower this slit has to be.

Why is this a problem for flash? Because the flash comes on and then off again much faster than the movement of the curtains, being effectively instantaneous. If the unit only fires a single flash and the shutter speed is higher than 1/180", then it will always miss some part of the frame no matter when it fires -- it will only illuminate some stripe of the final picture, because as stated above, there is no point at which the shutter is completely open.

High-speed sync schemes solve this problem by having the flash unit fire a quick burst of (necessarily lower-powered) flashes instead of a single big one, but that requires communication with the camera to time properly (in Pentax's case, P-TTL).


More at: Shutter (photography) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

10-09-2014, 09:46 AM   #20
Site Supporter




Join Date: Sep 2012
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 1,728
QuoteOriginally posted by Buckaroo50 Quote
I love my K-50 but there are some things about it that make me just go "Grrrrrr".

1) In less then ideal light, the numbers on the status screen and viewfinder constantly blink. This to me is very distracting and irritating. Even with a proper exposure they still continue to blink. Grrrrr.
In some cases they will blink "red" and never turn to white or stop blinking even when a proper exposure has been set... Double Grrrrr.

2) Default flash at either 1/25 or 1/30 - I think every camera in the world defaults to at least 1/60. Isn't part of the idea of a flash, is so that you can use faster shutter speeds in dim light. I have always felt that 1 with 1/60 and slower shutter speeds it is time to seriously think about a tripod. That is kind of a general rule that I keep in the back of my head. A general setting to be in the "ball park" for flash photography is 1/60 shutter speed, f4.0, ISO - 400... Now why can't Pentax do that? Grrrrr.

3) Fastest shutter speed with flash is 1/180. What good is that on moving objects in dim light? Heck I have several point and shoot and several bridge cameras (costing a lot less) that can shoot with a flash at 1/4000. 1/180 is totally irritating. Why does Pentax limit us - let us choose - it is only a number in the source code. Grrrrr.

It also makes you wonder if the engineers who develop the firmware code ever use cameras...

The above quirks can be resolved in the firmware source code. I am sure that the hardware of the K-50 is capable of the task. If a $100 point and shoot can do it then why can't the K-50. I think it is time that Pentax change some numbers in the source code and stop irritating us with neon flashing numbers and more appropriate default flash settings.

I would also like to see an exposure meter on every screen, no matter what mode you are using. It would also be nice to see a histogram on the status screen instead of having to switch to live view to see one.

Also, the thin black lines in the viewfinder just don't cut it. In less then ideal light you have no idea where the center of the view is.

What Pentax could consider, is that, what sells Cameras isn't always advertisements, but a solid, loyal customer base and word of mouth. How many Corvettes do you think would sell if they put a governor on the engine to limit the car to 70mph? Even though there may be no need to go any faster and the speed limit is 70mph. I don't believe one single Corvette with a governor would sell. Pentax are you listening. If the K-50 is able to do then turn that feature on in the firmware. There are many people that instead of moving up in level of camera would switch brands to one that doesn't have the governors...

Anyway, that is my rant for the day.
Buckaroo, you've really left it up in the air as to whether you want readers here to help you or not. So far, it seems you don't. Is that wrong?

Status screen: Click the INFO button twice and you'll see how it turns off.

Blinking numbers: What numbers? You never said. How can anyone respond if you don't even say what's going on? My guess (all it is) is your ISO is set too low or you're in Auto ISO and the upper bound is too low. Can you tell us?

Flash sync speed: All interchangeable lens cameras have low limits on flash sync speed because they all have focal plane shutters (OK, there is very rare and extraordinarily expensive exception). I don't believe there's an ILC on the planet with a sync speed faster than 1/320 second and most are significantly slower than that.

Pre-shot histogram: Only a camera in Live View can do this because the histogram has to be generated from the sensor read-out. Obviously a mirror-less camera can provide a pre-shot histogram but no DSLR can unless it's in Live View mode.

Again, please ask for help on specifics but hold the rants.
10-09-2014, 10:56 AM   #21
Veteran Member




Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: U.K.
Posts: 685
QuoteOriginally posted by IchabodCrane Quote

Blinking numbers: What numbers? You never said. How can anyone respond if you don't even say what's going on? My guess (all it is) is your ISO is set too low or you're in Auto ISO and the upper bound is too low. Can you tell us?
I guess it's the Live View info line as that's in red and blinks if the light is low. It can be turned off by deselecting LV 'Info Display' on the K-30.
10-09-2014, 11:17 AM   #22
Pentaxian
fgaudet's Avatar

Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Ontario
Posts: 726
I can see being annoyed, and ranting. But most of your annoyances aren't really issues or problems at all...

QuoteOriginally posted by Buckaroo50 Quote
1) In less then ideal light, the numbers on the status screen and viewfinder constantly blink. This to me is very distracting and irritating. Even with a proper exposure they still continue to blink. Grrrrr.
In some cases they will blink "red" and never turn to white or stop blinking even when a proper exposure has been set... Double Grrrrr.
This one got covered pretty well. Numbers will blink when the camera cannot get a proper exposure, according to your metering mode. And a proper exposure is measured in a specific way. I like my pictures darker and I use lots of shadow, so in any mode but Manual, numbers blink... the subject is exposed properly (same idea as the moon post earlier) but the scene as a whole is not exposed right... You've got a brain and artistic sense, the camera doesn't. So according to its meter, it is not exposed properly.

QuoteOriginally posted by Buckaroo50 Quote
2) Default flash at either 1/25 or 1/30 - I think every camera in the world defaults to at least 1/60. Isn't part of the idea of a flash, is so that you can use faster shutter speeds in dim light. I have always felt that 1 with 1/60 and slower shutter speeds it is time to seriously think about a tripod. That is kind of a general rule that I keep in the back of my head. A general setting to be in the "ball park" for flash photography is 1/60 shutter speed, f4.0, ISO - 400... Now why can't Pentax do that? Grrrrr.
Default flash at 1/30 is pretty unique to Pentax, you are right. Other brands will default faster. But other brands don't have SR built into their bodies and most bodies will not know when a stabilized lens is mounted so, 1/60 it is. With SR Pentax is still conservative on the shutter speed, they could have pushed it down more than a stop. I'm not a huge fan of SR and in most cases it won't allow 3-4 stops improvement like advertised but one stop slower than the rest... not at all that bad. I don't have a camera handy but I would be curious to see if the default shutter speed would change to something other than 1/30 if SR is turned OFF.

QuoteOriginally posted by Buckaroo50 Quote
3) Fastest shutter speed with flash is 1/180. What good is that on moving objects in dim light? Heck I have several point and shoot and several bridge cameras (costing a lot less) that can shoot with a flash at 1/4000. 1/180 is totally irritating. Why does Pentax limit us - let us choose - it is only a number in the source code. Grrrrr.
Again, this was already covered. Other brands with faster than 1/200 usually managed the faster speed with a combination of mechanical and electronic shutters... but this has some shortcoming too. This a limitation of SLR system as a whole; bridge, P&S and many mirrorless use electronic shutters. Good Canons and Nikons will give you 1/250... a whole 1/2 stop faster, this will get rid of all the motion blur that's for sure...
Leaf shutter medium format camera will usually give you 1/500 to 1/800... Why buy a $40,000 Hasselblad camera when a $50 P&S can sync flash faster... But of course, Hasselblad could just tweak the firmware to allow 1/4000 since it's that easy.
Your flash will freeze the motion, not your shutter... Only in very rare cases will it becomes an issue to sync at 1/180. A kid running around probably not. I shoot hummingbirds at 1/128 power on my flash and it freezes the wings motion almost perfectly... where a 1/1000 shutter speed doesn't.

QuoteOriginally posted by Buckaroo50 Quote
Also, the thin black lines in the viewfinder just don't cut it. In less then ideal light you have no idea where the center of the view is.
This is a question of taste, I'd rather have nothing at all in my viewfinder, the thin lines are not too obtrusive, but if I could choose, I'd get a blank one. Personal preference. How can you not find the center of the image in the viewfinder? Without markings for the rule of thirds, I still can manage to get my subject in the right spot 99% of the time.
10-19-2014, 06:45 PM   #23
Junior Member




Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Maine
Posts: 28
Original Poster
For those that took the time to explain the workings of a flash - thank you for your contribution.
This blinking thing, has me beside myself.
Let me try to be more clear. When using the view finder the numbers that indicate shutter speed, ISO, aperture on the status screen, will blink when the camera is pointed toward a dim lit area. There is enough light for it to meter a correct exposure. They even blink when in manual mode even thought there is a light meter scale that indicates the exposure. They also blink while in bulb mode. The indicators in the view finder on the status line also blink. When in live view the indicators on the status line also blink.
What I would like to know, is if your K-50 does the same and does it make no sense to you also.
To save some time - for those who want to tell me how to turn the status screen off and also the display information - I already know about that and it isn't a matter of turning it off it is a matter of why it is doing this.
I can't figure out what kind of warning this could possibly be indicating. It isn't a shutter speed warning, or an aperture setting warning or an ISO warning or an unobtainable metering warning or exposure warning... Which leads me to believe that it is a warning that the camera is pointed in a dim lit area (which I already know).
So I am unable to determine what this could possibly mean other than being an irritant...
When they blink, your first impression is, what is wrong and what do I need to address or change. No matter what you do or what you change the just keep blinking. Then I thought that maybe it was a flash warning (wanting me to use a flash, like some camera will pop up a lightning bolt on the screen or some little thing like that). But with the flash up and ready and after the camera has adjusted for flash mode they still blink annoyingly. It would be understandable if something wasn't set right and you made an adjustment and they stopped blinking.
Pictures are perfect, histograms are perfect and no reason for the flashing numbers...
And there is no way to get rid of it without turning the screen and status overlay information turned completely off... It has me scratching my head for sure.
If your K-50 does the same thing let me know, if it doesn't do it then let me know that too. And if your K-50 is a different K-50 than mine, then we are experiencing two different things.

As a side note to this - during the day light hours live view vs view finder. the metering identical... In low light there is a 1 stop discrepancy between metering in live mode and view finder mode.... Live mode will meter 1 stop brighter. That is a little quirky too... Anyone notice that with their camera too. It is ok if you are using one method or the other but if you switch back and forth you have to remember before you take the picture in live mode that you have to stop down the EV one (1) stop before pressing the shutter. And it does it in every mode even manual mode. In fact that is how I became aware of it was in manual mode when I switch from live view to view finder my light meter indicator scale was off by one (1) EV... Again - they are both exactly the same during the day - scratching my head again..

10-19-2014, 07:19 PM   #24
Pentaxian
esrandall's Avatar

Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: Sumner, WA
Photos: Albums
Posts: 964
I don't know man, maybe go back to my original comment at the start of your thread - maybe there's something wrong with your camera, even if the pictures turn out fine. I only use LV for macro focus peeking, and I don't seem to have any 1 stop metering discrepancy issues, and the only time I get the blink, is when the cap is on (and I forgot) or when I have settings that are outside the lines for what I'm asking the camera to do. So pretty normal stuff on my end.
10-20-2014, 12:15 AM   #25
Pentaxian
adwb's Avatar

Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Bristol UK
Photos: Gallery
Posts: 1,631
The only thing I can suggest is that you go to a retailer selling pentax and try about their demo body and yours in the the same light ,if there is a fault that will prove it.
If the both exhibit the behaviour I have no idea , I have found with k5 , k30, and others that sometimes the lights blink and need huge adjustments to stop them yet the images seem ok despite the blinking, but it is a rare occurrence ,not what seems to be a constant thing, in your case.
I do wonder if the body has a fault hence my test suggestion, I know that might be difficult if there is no retailer near you , but the fact that no one has said they have a similar problem and the obvious fact that you know how to adjust the camera seems to intimate something very odd.
10-20-2014, 12:57 AM   #26
Pentaxian




Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Far North Qld
Posts: 3,250
QuoteOriginally posted by adwb Quote
the images seem ok despite the blinking
Actually you know the camera doesn't always know best.
Especially when you are shooting in difficult lighting.
10-20-2014, 04:28 AM   #27
Site Supporter
JimJohnson's Avatar

Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Lake Superior - Michigan
Photos: Gallery
Posts: 2,165
Out of curiosity, do you have another auto aperture lens for this camera? If so, does the camera exhibit the same behavior? The blinking could be a bad body/lens connection.
10-21-2014, 06:16 AM - 1 Like   #28
Junior Member




Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Maine
Posts: 28
Original Poster
Thanks guys for the suggestions.
I spent quite a bit of time on the phone with Pentax Service yesterday (3 different calls) trying different things to correct the problem. I redid the firmware update, reset the camera and custom settings. I have 3 different Pentax lenses (18-55, 50-200, 28-80) and one Tamron (28-200) and all 4 lenses exhibited the same results. So the last service rep, concluded that since there are two different metering systems and two different focus systems that the "live view" probably needed to be re-calibrated, which would be done for free. However, I opted to contact B&H (great guys) and they suggested to just swap the body out for a new one and see if that takes care of the issue. Yesterday was getting pretty bad and at times I had 2-3 stops difference between "live view" and "view finder" modes. This was with the shades up and light from outside shining in and pointing the camera away from the window. Pointing out the window for a daylight shot the difference would drop down to about 1/3 of a stop. This variation led the service rep to conclude about the re-calibration and felt that it may also solve the issue with the blinking lights. That a re-calibration would also reset the threshold for when the lights would blink or not... Any way I am going to try a new camera body and if the same situation occurs then I will send that in for re-calibration or what ever it would need.
Under flash it makes no difference (as I understand it is the flash setting the proper exposure) of which I can set the shutter and aperture for the amount of ambient influence on the picture.. I got some pretty neat flash pictures last night while messing around with the camera... Played with some white balance and ran a shutter of around 1-2 seconds and cut the flash power back -2 EV... Got some pretty awesome natural looking pictures with some shadow from the natural light source... Any way I had fun tinkering... Prior flash for me was - if there was not enough light then turn on the flash. They always looked like a flash picture. Last night opened a new interest for me. I never was a flash person before but I think I may dab into it a bit more. I have a pretty decent external flash (not a p-TTL for Pentax - e-TTL for my Canon). But, it works great in manual and also slave. In wireless I tried both modes of "master" and "command" and like the "command" (no influence from the internal flash)... All in all even thought some of it was "grrrrr", I had fun playing and tinkering...
Again, thanks for the suggestions and input. Hopefully the new body will conform closer to factory specs... That would make me a "happy camper"... and instead of "grrrrr" it will be "whooo-hooo" - look at me now... hahaha
10-21-2014, 08:07 AM   #29
Pentaxian
esrandall's Avatar

Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: Sumner, WA
Photos: Albums
Posts: 964
Cool, man -- hope it works out. Other than a couple lockups switching back and forth between manual/auto glass, my K-50 experience has been pretty flawless, so here's to hoping that your second body will give you at least as good an experience as I've had
10-21-2014, 09:10 AM   #30
Site Supporter
stevebrot's Avatar

Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Vancouver (USA)
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 26,231
QuoteOriginally posted by Buckaroo50 Quote
In less then ideal light, the numbers on the status screen and viewfinder constantly blink. This to me is very distracting and irritating. Even with a proper exposure they still continue to blink. Grrrrr.
Blink = inadequate light...Its in the manual...


Steve
Reply

Bookmarks
  • Submit Thread to Facebook Facebook
  • Submit Thread to Twitter Twitter
  • Submit Thread to Digg Digg
Tags - Make this thread easier to find by adding keywords to it!
camera, code, exposure, flash, grrrrr, iso, k-30, k-50, light, pentax, pentax k30, pentax k50, screen, sensor, shutter, size, source, status
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Pentax K-50 with 18-55 WR and 50-200 WR lenses, AF-200FG flash, and $50 Adorama gift TomTom Pentax Price Watch 4 05-09-2014 09:10 PM
Pentax K-500 $399, K-50 $499 w/ $50 gift card Adam Pentax Price Watch 3 04-02-2014 06:50 PM
For Sale - Sold: Pentax K-m + 50-135 + F 100 macro + sigma 17-70 + 50-150 + tamron 17-50 + metz 50 AF blem49 Sold Items 11 07-26-2013 03:25 PM
For Sale - Sold: K-5, K-7, Pentax 16-50, 50-135, 12-24, Tamron 90 Macro, 70-300, Metz 48 and 58, etc hfthomp Sold Items 10 01-10-2013 07:32 PM
Lost deal on F 50mm 1.7 GRRRRR! richshoots Pentax SLR Lens Discussion 26 01-24-2012 10:26 PM



All times are GMT -7. The time now is 11:33 PM. | See also: NikonForums.com, part of our network of photo forums!
  • Red (Default)
  • Green
  • Gray
  • Dark
  • Dark Yellow
  • Dark Blue
  • Old Red
  • Old Green
  • Old Gray
  • Dial-Up Style
Hello! It's great to see you back on the forum! Have you considered joining the community?
register
Creating a FREE ACCOUNT takes under a minute, removes ads, and lets you post! [Dismiss]
Top