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10-12-2014, 07:53 PM   #1
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K30 flash question

When I use the built in flash the shutter speed drops to 1/20-1/30, I don't remember if it did this before but if you don't notice it some of the photos come out a little ghosty but it seems as though earlier images didn't have this ghost effect. You can fix it just by turning the front wheel and putting the shutter speed to 1/180 but would be nice if this was the default shutter speed. I'm wondering if I might have changed something. Any ideas?

Jerry

10-12-2014, 08:29 PM   #2
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What mode are you shooting in? Mine doesn't do this but I shoot only in M mode. Perhaps you changed something without realizing you did so.
10-12-2014, 09:22 PM   #3
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I was in P mode, I will try aperture preferred and see what it does.

Jerry
10-12-2014, 10:22 PM   #4
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Jerry, the camera is possibly guessing that you want the background exposed as well.

You may care only about the subject lit by the flash.

Put it into Shutterspeed mode and get the balance you want. Everyone's different, but handheld I don't like to drop south of 1/60.

10-13-2014, 12:00 AM   #5
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When using flash the theory is there are 2 exposures to consider the ambient and flash. Ambient is controlled by shutter speed and the flash by the aperture.

In P mode the camera is attempting to balance the light for the entire scene and produce even lighting.
The shutter speed and aperture are being established to what the camera believes is the proper exposure for the entire scene.

One of the problems with the Pentax on camera flash is that there is no way to set the flash to manual so shutter and aperture adjustments don't seem to control the 2 exposures very well. It's the main reason I've gone to shooting off camera flash the results are much more pleasing and able to be controlled.
10-13-2014, 01:53 AM   #6
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QuoteOriginally posted by geru2000 Quote

One of the problems with the Pentax on camera flash is that there is no way to set the flash to manual so shutter and aperture adjustments don't seem to control the 2 exposures very well. It's the main reason I've gone to shooting off camera flash the results are much more pleasing and able to be controlled.
I don't understand, Geru.

Even with the inbuilt flash you can set the aperture, the shutter speed and the ISO, to suit your combination of ambient and flash lighting.

Changing the FEC essentially changes the flash power manually between 1/1 and 1/8.

Isn't that what Canikon do as well?
10-13-2014, 08:56 AM   #7
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Thanks for the replies, I will fiddle with the modes today and see what happens. I don't remember the ghosting from before but due to my memory I don't recall what mode I was in, the joys of getting older.

Jerry

---------- Post added 10-13-14 at 09:14 AM ----------

I looked at the exif info on some older photos and noticed a theme, the K30 tries to keep the ISO as low as possible no matter what mode it was in, so 1/20 shutter speed even in an outdoor location is possible. With today's sensors I don't think this is necessary so I set the ISO low limit to 400 in hopes of boosting the shutter speed, will report back after shooting some photos today.

Jerry
10-13-2014, 06:12 PM   #8
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Well it didn't boost the shutter speed so I went with Photolady95's suggestion and shot manual, this works fine but the back ground is underexposed a bit so I tried time value and set the shutter speed to 1/100 and f stop to 5.6 and this worked quite well. Just wish there was a way to set the shutter speed default when using the flash.

Jerry

10-14-2014, 09:42 AM   #9
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QuoteOriginally posted by Jblk9695 Quote
Well it didn't boost the shutter speed so I went with Photolady95's suggestion and shot manual, this works fine but the back ground is underexposed a bit so I tried time value and set the shutter speed to 1/100 and f stop to 5.6 and this worked quite well. Just wish there was a way to set the shutter speed default when using the flash.

Jerry
What you're experiencing is a result of a fourth variable in the exposure calculation. Non-flash shots have three: sensitivity, speed, aperture which P mode deals with by algorithms in the firmware. With flash shots, though, you have a fourth variable: flash power. I find Pentax's firmware doesn't deal with the four variables as well as with just three so I usually take one of the variables out of the equation. For me, I typically fix either the speed or the ISO and let the camera handle the rest. Results seem to be more predictable when I do this.
10-14-2014, 12:42 PM   #10
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QuoteOriginally posted by Jblk9695 Quote
Just wish there was a way to set the shutter speed default when using the flash
There is, Tv and TAv let you set the shutter speed, while letting the camera set other factors that you set manually in M mode. What you can't set manually is the power output (flash duration) of the built-in flash. You can set flash exposure compensation (-2.0 stops to +1.0 stop) if you want to change the balance between ambient and flash light. In P mode, if you turn the front dial, the camera switches to Hyper Tv mode, and then you have set the shutter speed, but only for that shot.
QuoteOriginally posted by Jblk9695 Quote
the back ground is underexposed a bit
You can use flash compensation for this, but it works best in conjunction with ambient light exposure compensation. Otherwise, if you set flash compensation to negative values, your entire photo will be darker, and if you set flash compensation to positive values, your background will get darker (unless the distance between foreground and background is short, or the background is more reflective than your foreground).
10-14-2014, 12:50 PM   #11
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Jerry, if 1/180 was the default shutter speed you'd get a lot of ugly photos where you could see the subject but not the background. If you know you wamt that look, you dial it in with that front wheel as you say, or dial down the Exposure Compensation setting, which will do the same thing. :-)
10-14-2014, 05:27 PM   #12
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Thanks for all the suggestions.

Jerry
10-24-2014, 06:08 PM   #13
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I have found that the TAV mode works great, as suggested by RGlasel. When I pop up the flash the shutter speed goes to 1/180 and you can set the F stop where ever you like to get just the exposure you desire. You can change the shutter speed also so this setting works quite well.

Thanks again everyone

Jerry
10-25-2014, 03:08 PM   #14
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Jerry, most likely you had the flash set to one of the three "slow sync" settings in P, while the standard setting (far left in flash settings) is the default setting you probably had in the past.

While Tav is a good route to take, there are other routes you can find to get a good mix of light. You might want to experiment more to find what you like. Changing the flash exposure (often to the -0.7 to -1.3 flash range) can result in a pleasing mix. Aiming to underexpose slightly in M or Tav with a bit of flash assist can get you in the ballpark.

It isn't necessarily the case that 1/180th will result in "a lot of ugly photos." It all depends on the ambient light available, and the ISO you choose. Dialing in Exposure Compensation downward slightly is generally a minor element in attempting to improve the shot, and often isn't needed (trial and error). Getting the right mix of flash and ambient is the key. It also helps to shoot RAW - as you have more latitude to fine tune your results.
11-01-2014, 09:27 AM   #15
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It was set to the standard flash setting, I think that what was mentioned is correct, the camera is attempting to expose the back ground correctly while still exposing for the flash. I do like the Tav setting, lets you adjust the shutter speed to expose the back ground to your liking. And the flash exposure comp is a handy and easily accessed adjustment, I use it to get the exposure that I want when doing close ups of parts I machine.
Just a matter of using and experimenting with the various settings and the K30 is by far the easiest DSLR I have used for doing this.

Jerry
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