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04-29-2016, 05:21 AM   #31
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mebbe there'll be a cheap K-50 turn up for sale somewhere, advertised as a 'lemon' and somebody will get a smoking deal on a great camera....

04-29-2016, 06:22 AM   #32
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QuoteOriginally posted by gaweidert Quote
I have to admit that when I went digital in 2012 and purchased a K5, I did not find he manuals all that helpful. Yes it tells you how to set different modes, but what the heck are the modes for? And how do they work? I had never had such a complex camera before and even after 40 years of photography the camera was very intimidating.
I was in exactly the same situation when I went digital with a K30 in 2013. I found the manual almost useless and learned more about how to use the camera from these forums.
04-29-2016, 06:27 AM   #33
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QuoteOriginally posted by carlb Quote
I was in exactly the same situation when I went digital with a K30 in 2013. I found the manual almost useless and learned more about how to use the camera from these forums.
The ebooks available in The marketplace are great, that would have helped a lot.
04-29-2016, 07:15 AM   #34
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As a guy who scored in the 99th percentile on reading comprehension on my Ontario Scholastics Achievements Tests, I'm going to state outright, most manuals are poor, and the Pentax manuals are no better than the average. Technical writing is what it is. What it is needed is someone willing to take a couple months to learn how to use the camera in the field, interns of all aspects of photography, including flash, exposure setting, tracking, high ISO etc, and then write a clear technical manual in plain english. These days there should be clear videos released on youtube for every common use of the camera, showing multiple ways of doing different things.

I have many times sat down with the manual to figure something out , then come to the forum and asked and was told what I needed to know. So the only unfortunate thing here is that the OP didn't ask here sooner. Telling her to read the manual? That can be a complete waste of time unless you completely understand the mindset of the engineer who wrote it. Given that there are about 40 different learning/teaching styles, and the manuals are untested against various learning styles so they only suit the guy who wrote it and people who think like him, I'm not sure what is more frustrating. The manual, which can be comprehended by about one in 40, or the one and 40 who comes on the forum and tells everyone else to read the manual, because it works for him/her.

When you teach, your students have to have success. When you right a manual, at least half the population should be able to understand it. IN my mind, these manual given the complicated nature of re cameras are a complete failure, as is the Pentax method of supplying different modes based on traditional camera setting, but not providing examples of exact setting to take advantage of various features. Is Pentax worse than other companies? I don't know. But the OP was able to buy a Nikon, set her camera to M, and have manual mode without having to know to turn off the auto ISO. Quite simply stated , the Pentax method is unacceptable. M should mean M. It should disable auto ISO. Otherwise it isn't M is it?


Last edited by BigMackCam; 04-29-2016 at 07:58 AM. Reason: Inappropriate language.
04-29-2016, 08:07 AM   #35
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QuoteOriginally posted by Rondec Quote
I can't imagine having that bother me enough that I would put away a perfectly good camera and buy a different brand.
Particularly, if the other brand behaves in the same way.

QuoteOriginally posted by Oldbayrunner Quote
Well gents good info for newbies of k30/50/500 but I doubt we will hear again from the OP after his vent and new Nikon purchase.
Yep, I suspect the OP was not planning on additional participation.


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04-29-2016, 08:20 AM   #36
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QuoteOriginally posted by normhead Quote
Quite simply stated , the Pentax method is unacceptable. M should mean M. It should disable auto ISO. Otherwise it isn't M is it?
Sony has implemented this similarly to Pentax in the past. My A99-based Hasselblad HV has no dedicated TAv mode - but in M mode, you can select Auto ISO, which automates only the ISO setting, leaving the user to control everything else. I don't have a problem with that...
04-29-2016, 08:23 AM   #37
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QuoteOriginally posted by normhead Quote
Quite simply stated , the Pentax method is unacceptable. M should mean M. It should disable auto ISO. Otherwise it isn't M is it?
I totally agree.

QuoteOriginally posted by normhead Quote
But the OP was able to buy a Nikon, set her camera to M, and have manual mode without having to know to turn off the auto ISO.
I will have to do some research to confirm, but it has been my understanding that the closest thing to TAv behavior on at least some Nikon bodies* is accomplished by using auto-ISO in M mode.


Steve

* At least that is how the D5200 and D5500 manuals seem to read...

Last edited by stevebrot; 04-29-2016 at 08:34 AM.
04-29-2016, 08:45 AM   #38
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Based on this thread I spent some time going through the way ISO settings and "Auto ISO" work on the Olympus EPL-1.

I have been switching that camera to "P" before my young son uses it.
Then I switch it back to "A" or "M" for my use.

I found that camera does not work the way I thought it did.
For example if Auto ISO is selected in P mode, and the camera is selected back to "M" with the lens cap on, the ISO reverts to 200
I conclude it is better not to use "Auto ISO" on either the EPL-1 or the K-01.
When manual ISO is set it becomes global, carried across ( most of) the modes I use.

04-29-2016, 12:28 PM   #39
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QuoteOriginally posted by Oldbayrunner Quote
Well gents good info for newbies of k30/50/500 but I doubt we will hear again from the OP after his vent and new Nikon purchase.
He just joined the forum to complain.

Much easier than sitting down and getting out an actual manual.

And checking the sections you need - not reading the whole thing (it *is* a reference, not '50 Shades of Grey') - is all that has to be done.
04-29-2016, 01:25 PM   #40
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QuoteOriginally posted by clackers Quote
not reading the whole thing (it *is* a reference, not '50 Shades of Grey')
Reading the whole of "50 Shades"? Man, that is what I call fortitude.


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04-29-2016, 01:25 PM   #41
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QuoteOriginally posted by clackers Quote
He just joined the forum to complain.

Much easier than sitting down and getting out an actual manual.

And checking the sections you need - not reading the whole thing (it *is* a reference, not '50 Shades of Grey') - is all that has to be done.
It's easy to be critical but people have different learning styles. The post was from a frustrated person - they felt betrayed by the situation. The truth is a little hand-holding like the local camera store used to do would have solved all of this.
04-29-2016, 01:30 PM - 1 Like   #42
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QuoteOriginally posted by UncleVanya Quote
. The post was from a frustrated person - they felt betrayed by the situation.
I think there is a lot in photography that is frustrating, UncleVanya, in any brand, once you move beyond a phone or a point-and-shoot.

A strategy of not reading the manual or consulting people who know better will hurt aspiring photographers again and again.

Neither the OP, the daughter or the shop (five times if we are to take the story at face value) did this.

IMHO, the frustration you speak of was a self-inflicted wound, sadly.
04-29-2016, 03:04 PM   #43
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QuoteOriginally posted by UncleVanya Quote
The truth is a little hand-holding like the local camera store used to do would have solved all of this.
From the original post, I got the impression that someone, at some point, told the OP something that was interpreted as meaning the behavior was due to a common and acknowledged defect. Once the "I bought a known lemon" switch is flipped, it is difficult to overcome.

QuoteOriginally posted by clackers Quote
A strategy of not reading the manual or consulting people who know better will hurt aspiring photographers again and again.

Neither the OP, the daughter or the shop (five times if we are to take the story at face value) did this.
Yes, this is a shame. The shop was Adorama. They are very good with customer service and generally pretty good at referring users to the manufacturer if product education is indicated. Whether the five times involved five attempts to exchange the camera for new or five trips for warranty service is not clear. It is also not clear why it took 1.5 years to decide that the expected behavior was a fatal flaw that required replacement with a Nikon that probably behaved very much the same when in auto-ISO.

The really unfortunate thing is that outside of talking to a Ricoh CS rep or a knowledgeable member of this site, it is unlikely that a quick "drill down" of the manual would have provided an obvious answer. Were it not for this being a common question on this site, I would likely have not known, despite having a fair amount of hands-on with a K-50.


Steve

(...FWIW...The Nikon manuals are not very clear either...)
04-29-2016, 03:36 PM   #44
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QuoteOriginally posted by UncleVanya Quote
The ebooks available in The marketplace are great, that would have helped a lot.
I bought the K50 ebook later on and agree that they are a great help. I learned some things from it even though by the time I bought it I had a lot more experience with the camera. Maybe Pentax should have a licensing deal with the author and include a copy with each camera they sell.
04-29-2016, 03:53 PM - 1 Like   #45
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QuoteOriginally posted by MarkJerling Quote
Yes! It's rumoured that chainsaws, TV's, dishwashers and skydiving rigs do too!
Manual? Nah, stuff that. I'm just going to pull the cord when I jump out of the plane. How hard can it be? What could possibly go wrong?

Last edited by Des; 04-29-2016 at 04:10 PM.
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