[normhead]

Manual? Nah, stuff that. I'm just going to pull the cord when I jump out of the plane. How hard can it be? What could possibly go wrong?

I hope it's written better than most of the manuals I've seen. In my experience a guy who knows what he's doing saves oodles of time, compared to figuring out from the manual. And no they won't let you jump from a plane with a parachute just because you've said "I read the manual." They won't let you fly a plane either, or drive a car. In fact , what exactly reading the manual qualifies you for, I'm not sure.

To take a test with someone who knows what they are doing?

[clackers]

. In my experience a guy who knows what he's doing saves oodles of time, compared to figuring out from the manual.

Well, no documentation that comes with a fishing rod can tell you how to catch a bass. ☺

Consumer electronics come with a reference manual, not a textbook.

Of course, there's no substitute for experimentation, talking with experts or buying a book like those Yvon Bourque has written for our cameras.

[Des]

I hope it's written better than most of the manuals I've seen.

Going back to the issue raised by the OP, the K-50 user manual (p.88) says this:
"If the mode dial is set to M when the sensitivity is set to [ISO AUTO], the camera operates in TAv mode."
I don't think it could be expressed more clearly or succinctly. (Whether that functionality is a good thing is another question.)

There is a 3 page troubleshooting table in Appendix A in the manual. It doesn't deal with this issue. Perhaps it should, but if it did deal with every function like this it would be very long.

The user manual has to strike a balance between too much information (500 pages, and only real geeks read it) and too little (ever tried to set up a wireless router using just the manual?). I think the K-50/K-30 manuals strike the balance pretty well, given their target market. Third party sources (like PF, and Yvon's e-books) provide plenty of additional information.

There are several threads here that deal with the camera operating in TAv mode when set to M. It is also dealt with in the PF staff review of the K-50: https://www.pentaxforums.com/reviews/pentax-k-50-review/image-shooting-modes.html (See the section on "Manual (M) Mode".)

[BigMackCam]

I don't think we're going to hear back from the OP. My guess is this was just a drive-by venting post from a genuinely-frustrated beginner. Otherwise, if they read this, they'd probably be a little embarrassed and not want to come back into the discussion. That said, it's useful info for anyone that hasn't come across this mode of operation before...

[c.a.m]

Future readers of this thread might not make it through to post number 50, but I thought the following might be a useful reminder: Whenever a problem is experienced, chances are high that a simple web/Google search will reveal useful information.

For example, a Google search for "Pentax K-50 manual TAv" brings up this as the first hit: https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/151-pentax-k-30-k-50/213503-k30-m-mode-says-tav.html

- Craig

[Des]

I don't think we're going to hear back from the OP. My guess is this was just a drive-by venting post from a genuinely-frustrated beginner. Otherwise, if they read this, they'd probably be a little embarrassed and not want to come back into the discussion.

The OP is probably venting on the Nikon forums by now about some terrible defect in the new camera.

[stevebrot]

For example, a Google search for "Pentax K-50 manual TAv" brings up this as the first hit: k30 M mode says TAv

Yep...this topic has come up regularly since the K-30 first came on the scene. Very seldom has it been characterized as a defect or an issue or a fault. Usually, people would be wondering why they could not turn auto-ISO on from M mode or how to get truly manual M mode. The common advice has been to leave auto-ISO off unless it is something you really want on.


Steve

[stevebrot]

The OP is probably venting on the Nikon forums by now about some terrible defect in the new camera.

Something like, auto-ISO stays on when the camera is in M mode (acts like TAv)?


Steve

[robgski]

In my experience a guy who knows what he's doing saves oodles of time, compared to figuring out from the manual.

Reading the manual first allows one to thoroughly troubleshoot problems when they occur.

I have dealt with complex and/or old equipment for the better part of 40 years. I am used to things not working, but I am also willing to admit it might be due to operator (me) error. Troubleshooting is an almost instant response, usually accompanied by softly muttered curses. Once I find out what went wrong (often my own error or inattention) I feel pretty dumb for being so upset with an inanimate object. In the end, it's better to start from step one, check everything by the book, and then if it doesn't work, scream loudly and throw the object against a wall, knowing that you did your best.

[misterkittyboy]

Wow, that is incredibly bad luck. Who did you send it to for repair?

Hi, Pentax/Ricoh told me to send it to Precision Camera. I think Ricoh uses them as a third party contractor or something.


Thanks,
Misterkittyboy

---------- Post added 04-30-16 at 09:57 PM ----------

Thanks for the response!. The Pentax authorized service center is called Precision Camera. Since it's been in the shop for the majority of the time we hardly had used the camera. That is why we got the Nikon camera instead, a life saver for those gymnastic meets. I appreciate your response (Helen).. however, I don't think you will be able to fix it because it is a known issue. After 5 times, it is still not repaired.
The warranty allows you to send it to Precision Camera. However, they can't fix it either.... which is why I wanted the upgrade.


Thanks,
Misterkittyboy


-------------------------------------------------

Sorry to hear about the problem you've encountered. I've never heard of that issue before. Do you have links to the websites and posts that suggest this is a known issue? The reason I ask is that we have many, many happy K-50 owners here on the forums. Also, who specifically did you send the camera to for repairs? Was it a Pentax authorised service centre (in which case, which one?), or Adorama? It would help other members here to know. We have an active Adorama representative here - @Helen Oster; - who may be able to help you.

It's unlikely any supplier would upgrade you to a different camera (regardless of manufacturer) unless they were unable to satisfactorily repair the one you had bought, especially after 1.5 years of use. Were they able to repair it, and did that repair come with any kind of warranty?

I'm also sorry to hear you wouldn't buy another Pentax camera in future. Like any manufacturer, they occasionally have problems (there are various models from all the major manufacturers that have had frequent problems - Nikon, Canon, Sony etc.) - it's just a fact of life. I think you've been very unlucky with your particular K-50. That said, let us know how we can help you... We're a Pentax-enthusiast website, so you'll be in good company if you decide to continue shooting with a Pentax camera now or in the future

---------- Post added 04-30-16 at 10:02 PM ----------

Thanks for your response, I cannot believe all of the quick responses.. All of you are amazing!


We've had the Nikon for 3 months I believe with no issues. The Pentax issue began in the first month. Perhaps, I should have a got a refund when I had the chance..
It was a Pink Camera in which she was enamored with and kept in hopes that Ricoh/Pentax could fix it ....to no avail.


Thanks again for the response.


Misterkittyboy








------------------------------------------------------------------------

Well, when her Nikon breaks, they'll buy a Canon, and once this one breaks, maybe they'll buy a Sony, and then after, maybe they'll figure every manufacturer can produce defective products.
To be fair, I wouldn't buy another Pentax have I had the same problems in such short time.

But that being said, the K30 - K50 camera are not cameras I would recommend because of the "high" risk of problem with the aperture lever mechanism.

---------- Post added 04-30-16 at 10:10 PM ----------

Thanks, Huy,


I'll get her camera and give it a try.... and well let you know,.
Thanks,


Misterkittyboy

Hi misterkittyboy,

Changes are the ISO setting of your K 50 is still in auto ISO mode. Even though you turn the dial to M, the camera is still operating in TAv mode.

To operate the camera in full manual mode:

1) Switch the camera to M,
2) If the camera is still showing TAv, go to ISO setting and switch to manual ISO, the camera will operate in Manual.
3) When you switch the camera to other auto ISO modes such as Av or TAv or Tv, the ISO will set to auto ISO automatically.
4) when you switch back to M, assuming you already did step #2, the camera will set to manual ISO.

Hope it helps,

- Huy

---------- Post added 04-30-16 at 10:11 PM ----------

We will see what happens!

Exactly. A likely case of not reading the manual and not working the settings properly. Not a defect.

---------- Post added 04-30-16 at 10:17 PM ----------

Hi Huy,


That was a good idea... I went in and selected Manual,
which setting is TAV.


Then I selected the ISO button and scrolled from Iso Auto to ISO (manual).


Unfortunately It is still TAV..


I think that the Pentax Engineers tried this and didn't work.




But Nice try and thanks for helping me anyways!


Misterkittyboy




















-------------------------------------------------------------------

Hi misterkittyboy,

Changes are the ISO setting of your K 50 is still in auto ISO mode. Even though you turn the dial to M, the camera is still operating in TAv mode.

To operate the camera in full manual mode:

1) Switch the camera to M,
2) If the camera is still showing TAv, go to ISO setting and switch to manual ISO, the camera will operate in Manual.
3) When you switch the camera to other auto ISO modes such as Av or TAv or Tv, the ISO will set to auto ISO automatically.
4) when you switch back to M, assuming you already did step #2, the camera will set to manual ISO.

Hope it helps,

- Huy

---------- Post added 04-30-16 at 10:23 PM ----------

Thanks for your response...


Interesting stats. I'll keep those in mind. We are a low mileage user too...
If I paid 5-600$ for an entry level DSLR, I would expect to get more than 100 shots without erring. With
the new technology out today, you would expect quality and quantity out of the camera, not like a
the new water heaters they make today only last 10-12 years. Perhaps, they want you to
buy more cameras?


We just got unlucky unfortunately. But I seem to have been lucky to have found this site and hear good comments.


Thanks,
Misterkittyboy












--------------------------------------------------------------------

It's too bad we don't have any actual statistics with respect to aperture lever mechanism failures, of the sort "the probability of failure within 1000 shots is x, the probability of failure within 2000 shots is y, etc". We would need statistics of that sort to combine with the currently very low price to get a reasonable picture of actual effective reliability. I'm a "low mileage" user, currently not taking much over 500 pictures per year. I had two Canon Rebels die in less than 8 years {fewer than 5000 shots between the two of them}, so that kind of statistics would have been helpful before I purchased my K-30 10+ months ago. In some sense, if the average life of a K-30/50 is over 5000 shots, that is more than I'm likely to ask of a camera. On the other hand, if the average life is under 1000, that is something to worry about, but a free-floating cloud hanging over the K-30/50 doesn't really do anyone any good.

note: my wife says if this camera runs into that problem, we just buy me a new camera, but I do have a 35mm Super Tak permanently living in my camera bag right now.

---------- Post added 04-30-16 at 10:26 PM ----------

Thanks, I tried Huy's information and still did not get out of TAV.
You would have thinked that the Pentax Team would have told me that too.
Since it didn't work for me, it probably didn't work for them after so many times.


Misterkittyboy!






---------------------------------------------------------------

Huy nailed it ... you never set the ISO, you still had Auto ISO turned on.


I'm afraid neither you nor your shop have exactly covered yourselves with glory on this one, MKB!

---------- Post added 04-30-16 at 10:28 PM ----------

Hi,
I tried Huy's suggestion and did not prevail.


If you have any other ideal would be greatly appreciated.


Thanks,
Misterkittyboy






------------------------------------------------------------------------

Just tested my K30 and it does exactly the same thing

Dial turned to M mode - hit the iso button and select auto ISO and lo and behold the camera switches to TAv mode (which in all fairness is M mode with auto ISO selected). Dial still in M mode hit the ISO button and select the manual ISO an the camera switches back to M mode - TADA!! never noticed that before; cool feature really !!

Seems like your camera is good and unfortunately you spent money needlessly on the NIKON - but if you like the NIKON then you have a pentax backup which you now know how to operate.

cheers

---------- Post added 04-30-16 at 10:32 PM ----------

Hi,
Thanks for your thought.
Yes, you would think that you would have to read the fine print to make sure that issue doesn't happen at all
However, in my case, it still doesn't work.


Good thing is that I don't have to read the Nikon manual to explore this awkward functionality....


Misterkittyboy

In all fairness, the manuals are a bit vague and aren't a replacement for photography school. But the camera store staff should know how to use a camera, I would have thought.

---------- Post added 04-30-16 at 10:42 PM ----------

Hi,
I didn't realize my issue would cause the reaction that it would have.
But I am impressed with all of your responses so quickly.. it's kind of embarrassing..


Huy gave us a good idea about changing the ISO setting, however that didn't work either.


I would think that they would have told me to do Huy's comment first, but didn't.
We are happy with the Nikon so far. I was hoping that the one of you in this forum
would have an answer. After hearing your comments, sounds like our K50 has
deeper issues.




There are so many responses, I am afraid I didn't respond to them. If I missed any of you,
sorry....


Thanks again!
Misterkittyboy








-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The OP could have spare themselves much grief and expenses had they found this forum and posted here first. The Ricoh live chat troubling shooting database may even have this "problem" covered. Why Precision should have explained the function. Or getting Ricoh involved should have cleared up the misunderstanding. Precision may just use canned responses such as "Device inspected and adjusted to factory specifications" and left it at that.

Be that as it may no use crying over water under the bridge. Let's wish the OP and daughter enjoy their Nikon and take many of memorable photos with it. Perhaps the OP will sell the Pentax on the Marketplace to a new owner which will give it the love the camera deserves.

[Rondec]

I'm not sure that it has been made clear, but this is not a defect, but the way the camera is supposed to function. I'm a little unclear as to the difference between manual mode with auto iso and Tav mode anyway. In Tav mode, you set your aperture and shutter speed and a iso range and the camera chooses the best iso to maintain that. How do you want manual mode with auto iso to work?

But either way, feature or bug, it is the way the camera was designed to function. It is like complaining that when you are in P mode and spin the back dial you end up in Av mode and when you spin the front dial you end up in Tv mode. That's the way the camera was programmed to function. I guess if you don't like it, it is your prerogative to choose a different brand (which you have done).

Good luck.

[UncleVanya]

I wish I still had a K50 so I could walk through the process. Does anyone here with one feel like making a video showing EXACTLY the steps needed to get M to be M?

Then the original poster can try that and perhaps video it to see if it does or doesn't work.

[stevebrot]

I wish I still had a K50 so I could walk through the process. Does anyone here with one feel like making a video showing EXACTLY the steps needed to get M to be M?

Then the original poster can try that and perhaps video it to see if it does or doesn't work.

-Make sure camera is in other than TAv mode
-Up arrow on 4-way controller
-Change to fixed ISO
-Change to M mode

Be happy


Steve

[1wild1]

Hi Huy,


That was a good idea... I went in and selected Manual,
which setting is TAV.


Then I selected the ISO button and scrolled from Iso Auto to ISO (manual).


Unfortunately It is still TAV..


I think that the Pentax Engineers tried this and didn't work.




But Nice try and thanks for helping me anyways!


Misterkittyboy


I just want to make sure, you say scrolled to manual iso, but you need to actually hit the down or "WB" button to change to manual. The scroll or wheels will only adjust the actual limits that you set in auto, minimum of one click.
If I have the manual iso selected on M, it stays even if I go to another dial setting,TAV, and back to M.
If the store couldn't figure this out though it is strange, I would love to see a video of the malfunction happening.

I love my K-50, sorry you got a bad one.

[nicolpa47]

Funnily enough I came across this point in the last couple of weeks. I've had both a K30 and a K50 for a while, and decided to set them up to use a couple of old film camera lenses. I was surprised to note that when I switched to Manual mode, the display indicated Tav. Upon investigation, I discovered that it was necessary to fix the ISO setting in order to move to genuine manual operation - I've set one of the User modes to be effectively Manual Tav.

I had not read this thread at the time I made the changes otherwise I would have made a proper note of the exact order of what I did. However, I believe I changed the mode dial to M, then used the rear dial to access the ISO setting and fix it to the value I wanted, This produced the change I desired.

I then checked the effect by switching each camera off and then on again in turn to check retention of the setting. In both cases the Mode in "Manual" is M with the fixed ISO setting. When changing between modes and turning the camera off and on, the correct modes display and the related ISO settings appear to be retained.

One point about which I was concerned was that such fixing of the ISO setting might carry over to other modes, but it does not appear to(as I expected from a reading of the manual), and the individual ISO setting for each mode appears to be retained for that mode. I have not, so far, noted any crossover.

I should add that I am by no means an expert as although I have had the K30 in particular for some time, it is only relatively recently that my long term interest in photography has been rekindled. In my view the camera manuals are good, but could be better. Sometimes you first need to realise that you need to link and read separate sections to fully understand the use of some controls. The manual layout of lists of functions sometimes does not provide the intuitive connection between sections. Only now, after having used the cameras for some time in automatic modes and slowly trying to achieve certain results and retain convenient settings have I made some of the connections.

Just one further thought regarding the OP's question, are there any other settings in the menus which would over-ride or prevent retention of the M setting in Manual mode - I'm not knowledgeable enough to know?

At the end of the day I should have applied the same attitude to the camera and manual as I do to computers - this machine WILL do what I want, how do I get it to do it. I initially didn't do that, probably because the camera was supposed to be a relaxation from complexity.

Colin